Combining 2 identical PCs to work as one system

[martynaaas]

Now before I begin, I just want to point this out - I've read multiple articles and forum posts in regard to this topic and pretty much most of them said the same - it's whether impossible or too hard/not worth your time/money. I'm pretty sceptical about this so maybe someone will help me to figure this out once and for all.

I've got 2 identical PCs of which one is working as a Remote Desktop (Windows application) and the other does pretty much nothing. The first one is being used by 3-4 people at the same time and it performs alright until some heavy rendering begins.

It seems that if I was able to connect (or rather merge) these 2 computers to work as one system, we would be able to achieve much higher results and quicker render times as well as less latency during the work.

Computer specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-4785T @ 2.20Ghz 35W
Motherboard: GA-H87N-WIFI
Memory: DDR3 16GB 800MHz
Graphics card: Intel HD Graphics 4600 2GB

Each computer uses very little power and are cooled passively with Streacom case.

I've also read about computer cluster but as far as I know it's more viable for connecting massive servers and not personal computers. What are you thoughts on this? Is it worth it?

 

[Someone Somewhere]

The first one is being used by 3-4 people at the same time

Please describe exactly what you're using this for - I'm guessing this is network accessed, and used as a remote render machine?

What you've seen elsewhere is pretty much right. Your only real hope is to install the same software on both, and get people to use one or the other.

 

[martynaaas]

The first one is being used by 3-4 people at the same time

Please describe exactly what you're using this for - I'm guessing this is network accessed, and used as a remote render machine?

What you've seen elsewhere is pretty much right. Your only real hope is to install the same software on both, and get people to use one or the other.

Basically, people connect to this pc through Windows Remote Desktop Connection to work mainly with AutoCAD, SketchUP, 3Ds Max, Vray and such. So it's mostly drawing/rendering stuff.

I was thinking about using FTP for file synchronization and then maybe use one of the computers entirely for rendering and the other one for all other tasks. It's one of the solutions, however that would cause a bit more confussion since all of our workers render/draw simultaneously. Having one system would allow to get faster render times and this is critical since we always have tight deadlines and waiting even 30mins to an hour for one render can sometimes mean a lot to us.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

What's preventing you from doing that locally?

Those computers are entirely the wrong thing for rendering. They're basically laptop level.

 

[martynaaas]

What's preventing you from doing that locally?

Those computers are entirely the wrong thing for rendering. They're basically laptop level.

Could you explain what you mean by 'doing that locally?'

And yes, they are not the best in the market but they still perform alright for what they cost. We are considering of getting a server computer soon.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Do the rendering on the PCs you're actually working from, rather than remote boxes. They're likely to be as fast or faster, and don't have contention issues.

 

[martynaaas]

Do the rendering on the PCs you're actually working from, rather than remote boxes. They're likely to be as fast or faster, and don't have contention issues.

We're only have legal copies of all of software on one of the computers, thus it leaves no choice but to work on it or risk getting immense fines. However, in such case, second computer is not being used to its power except to connect to the 1st one.

I now see that this is probably not going anywhere, unless someone else suggest some other way. In theory, if we were able to connect 2 computers, we could bench around 12-14k during peak times and that would probably be more than enough however I'm not tech savy enough to do that in practise. Thanks for your opinion though!

 

[ktolo]

You're 'heavy rendering' using IGP graphics? Sacre Bleu... drop a decent graphics card into it and watch the difference..

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Ah, the wonders of licensing.

If you haven't already, anything without really expensive licenses should be put on each user's PC, rather than a central server like this.

Put half of the software on each server, so that you're at least using each roughly the same amount. E.g. 3DS Max and Sketchup on one, Maya and AutoCAD on the other.

But really, these continue to be completely the wrong PC, and a $600 gaming desktop would absolutely blow them out of the water by at least an order of magnitude. Laptop CPUs and integrated graphics are not what you want.

But no, you absolutely cannot connect two PCs like you're asking.

 

[martynaaas]

You're 'heavy rendering' using IGP graphics? Sacre Bleu... drop a decent graphics card into it and watch the difference..

Doesn't rendering engine use CPU on default? Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I know GPU only improves modeling environment but when it comes to rendering computer uses only CPU power.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

I'm not certain... I was under the impression that a lot of them could use CUDA or OpenCL. Depends on the software, I guess.

 

[McHenryB]

Presumably you have multi-user licences for your software? Licensing of hig-end software normally depends upon the number of users rather than the number of machines it is installed on. Put the software on a server and you need to purchase multiple licences even though you only have the one installation.

 

[martynaaas]

A bit of off topic but do you reckon it'd be worth selling these two and getting a decent server computer? Since everyone is being kind of negative about the current setup. I'm not sure I could get a decent amount of money for what I have...

 

[azaran]

First, that has to be the cutest damn computer case I've seen in a while. Seeing that explains using the IGP of your CPU. As for setting up a farm, it really depends on the software you're using. Some play well with it, some don't and. From what I've read 3DS Max allows a render farm as a 1 user license, but you'd need to check all your licenses to see who considers a farm one user or multi user. Keep in mind per seat and per user are two totally different types of license. Have you looked at cloud rendering at all for taking some strain off your local machine?

 

[martynaaas]

First, that has to be the cutest damn computer case I've seen in a while. Seeing that explains using the IGP of your CPU. As for setting up a farm, it really depends on the software you're using. Some play well with it, some don't and. From what I've read 3DS Max allows a render farm as a 1 user license, but you'd need to check all your licenses to see who considers a farm one user or multi user. Keep in mind per seat and per user are two totally different types of license. Have you looked at cloud rendering at all for taking some strain off your local machine?

We value design just as much as quality so that case was a core component in building these computers. The idea was also to make it as quite as possible and make it use very little power. We have definetely succeeded in these two criterias, even though some describe this setup as 'laptop build'. I guess it could've been more powerful for what it's being used but as for architects, detail and overall image are quite important elements.

Cloud rendering could be an option and thanks for mentioning that. However, as I have pointed out earlier, usually our renders are quick draft images to show for the clients with very huge size renders happening only once in couple of weeks. So probably this wouldn't be as useful on daily basis.

I guess in the end, if we need more power, we'll just have to buy a more powerful computer, maybe even a server. It would be hard to give aways these two though, having in mind how much time was spent building it.

 

[USAFRet]

Clustering is non-existent in the Windows world. You can do it for some specialized functions in Linux.

But one beefy server box would crush those two little things, no matter if or how you mate them.
I get the design aspect, and those cases look cute. But that's when you put the server out of sight in the server room, and use those little things as desktop front ends.

 

[giantbucket]

1 - you're trying to run a business with this tiny level of hardware? don't you have revenues that justify purchasing the right gear (hardware / software)?

2 - ok, you're an architect, but the way your tool looks shouldn't matter. what should matter is how your final designs look! weird, eh?

 

[McHenryB]

Clustering is non-existent in the Windows world. You can do it for some specialized functions in Linux.

That is not true. Windows server allows clustering. And for rendering, in particular, several programs allow the workload to be spread over several machines.

 

[McHenryB]

I'm not certain... I was under the impression that a lot of them could use CUDA or OpenCL. Depends on the software, I guess.

Rendering can certainly make use of CUDA. For example: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-iray.html

 

[USAFRet]

Clustering is non-existent in the Windows world. You can do it for some specialized functions in Linux.

That is not true. Windows server allows clustering. And for rendering, in particular, several programs allow the workload to be spread over several machines.

Well, yes. Windows Server.
We make extensive use of that at work.

Which is far beyond what is running those two little designer boxes.

 

[bambiboom]

Now before I begin, I just want to point this out - I've read multiple articles and forum posts in regard to this topic and pretty much most of them said the same - it's whether impossible or too hard/not worth your time/money. I'm pretty sceptical about this so maybe someone will help me to figure this out once and for all.

I've got 2 identical PCs of which one is working as a Remote Desktop (Windows application) and the other does pretty much nothing. The first one is being used by 3-4 people at the same time and it performs alright until some heavy rendering begins.

It seems that if I was able to connect (or rather merge) these 2 computers to work as one system, we would be able to achieve much higher results and quicker render times as well as less latency during the work.

Computer specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-4785T @ 2.20Ghz 35W
Motherboard: GA-H87N-WIFI
Memory: DDR3 16GB 800MHz
Graphics card: Intel HD Graphics 4600 2GB

Each computer uses very little power and are cooled passively with Streacom case.

I've also read about computer cluster but as far as I know it's more viable for connecting massive servers and not personal computers. What are you thoughts on this? Is it worth it?

martnaaas,

Having spent 20+ years in architectural offices with CAD, these are familiar problems. You might loopk more carefully into your licensing as in there are licenses in whichyou can install Autodesk or Adobe two or three systems as long as they are not used simultaneously.

My tactic for the last seven years has been to have two speicalized systems on a network. Currently:


1. HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz > 32GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

Pending upgrade: HP /LSI 9212-4i PCIe SAS /SATA HBA RAID controller, 2X Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB (RAID 1)

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) > Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 24GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card 875W PSU > Logitech z313> Linksys WMP600N PCI WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3490 / CPU = 9178 / 2D= 685 / 3D= 3566 / Mem= 1865 / Disk= 2122] [Cinebench 15 > CPU = 772 OpenGL= 99.72 FPS] 7.8.15

Network: Netgear GS108-400NAS Gigabit Ethernet

And typically I have the fastest system for 3D modeling, Solidwoiks, and hgih calcultion cisualization like Revit, and I move the previous multi-CPU system down to rendering and backup. the previous pair was an HP z420> E5-1620, Quadro 4000, Samsung 840, WD Black and Dell Precision T5400 ? 2X Xeon X5460 4-core , Quadro FX 4800, 2X WD RE4 500GB.

In you situation, parallel /cluster computing is not applicable, that's more typical in scientific fully threaded custom algorithmic applications such as Matlab and molecular biology- NAMB.

As you have fialrly expensive software, it would be a pity to struggle on lower performance systems, but it's not uncommon- Revit is almost esstential- and nearly $6,000 or I guess now an expensive subscription.

In any event, my solution would be to get a reasonable server- Dell R- series and network a pile of upgraded LGA1366 systems > Dell Precision T3500, T5500, T7500, HP z420, z800. I bought my T5500 for $171 and spent about $800 on it. For another $335 I can have 12 Cores / threads @ 3.33/ 3.6GHz, 48GB RAM, and a 4GB Quadro K2200, Samsung 820 .WD RE and so on. The LGA1366 are very good, can have modern clock speeds,are fully depreciated, and in my use completely reliable.. Set up a range of systems according to the performance level and you can have a dedicated rendering engine - install a pair of 6 cores- you can buy a Xeon X5690 6-core @ 3.47 / 3,73GHz for about $250- and it can that sits in the corner and render all the time. One system may need to have a high clock speed and you can buy an E5-1620 system > 4-cores at 3.6 /3.8GHz and a good used Quadro- K2200 (4GB) for about $350 would be a good one or start even with a K620 (2GB)- one went on Ebay today fro $98. If you have four people working they can share and save the files on the server and as long as no two are using the same software at the same time, you won't have trouble at the Autodesk audit. The upgraded used workstation can have an impressive cost /performance benefit.

Don't worry about appearances- spray everything satin black.

But, it's not productive to have very good software that must struggle on lower-performing systems. As a designer, I'm a poor CAD draughtsman, but I quickly get addicted to very fast model opening and navigation and at least feel I'm much more productive. It's certainly less frustrating.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[martynaaas]

BambiBoom,

thanks for a thorough reply, I'll look into that hardware. I'm currently checking out several builds and will have to do a little bit more research on it, that's for sure.