Common request but need advice/direction on upgrading guts of my PC

[jaged]

Currently have:
I5-2500K
Asus: P8P67 Pro Rev 3.0 atx
gtx-960 oc 2gb

Pretty well only used for gaming. Fallout 4/Skyrim, some Fortnite/Pubg. I've been thinking of getting Far Cry 5 and have seen some of the clips of the graphics which blew me away. So I'd like to look into getting GPU/mobo/ram that would allow me to play new AAA games like FC5 and maybe even delve into some VR down the road.

even though I have a 2500k I don't really get into overclocking much. My current setup is fine for Fo4 and skyrim but I want to bring it up to date for modern/future games as listed above.

Thanks in advance for any input & advice.

 

[vapour]

Budget on the whole set? Can you list your other components, especially PSU? Living in US?

 

[geofelt]

You have a relatively well balance of cpu and gpu.

Your 2500K can be overclocked if you need more cpu power, and it should support a stronger graphics card in the nature of a GTX1070.

What is your psu? That will determine how strong your graphics card upgrade can be.
Here is a chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

I might suggest you first buy whatever games interest you and then see if you need more cpu or gpu power.

Do you have a budget?

If you want a significantly stronger cpu, you are also looking at a motherboard and ram change.
I think I5-8600K, Z370 motherboard and a 2 x 8gb DDR4 ram kit.

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

 

[captaincharisma]

You have a relatively well balance of cpu and gpu.

Your 2500K can be overclocked if you need more cpu power, and it should support a stronger graphics card in the nature of a GTX1070.

What is your psu? That will determine how strong your graphics card upgrade can be.
Here is a chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

I might suggest you first buy whatever games interest you and then see if you need more cpu or gpu power.

Do you have a budget?

If you want a significantly stronger cpu, you are also looking at a motherboard and ram change.
I think I5-6600K, Z370 motherboard and a 2 x 8gb DDR4 ram kit.

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

i think your meant I5 8600K, the I5 6600K does not work with a Z370 chipset

 

[captaincharisma]

according to this website your current setup meet the requirements to play FC5 in 720P. its hard to be sure though because you have not listed how much RAM you have but here are the requirements:

from https://www.pcgamer.com/far-cry-5-system-requirements/

The Minimum (720p, low settings):

OS: Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1, Windows 10 (64-bit versions only)
CPU: Intel Core i5-2400 @ 3.1 GHz or AMD FX-6300 @ 3.5 GHz or equivalent
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 or AMD R9 270 (2GB VRAM with Shader Model 5.0 or better)
RAM: 8GB

The Recommended (1080p, 60 fps, high settings):

OS: Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1, Windows 10 (64-bit versions only)
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz or AMD Ryzen 5 1600 @ 3.2 GHz or equivalent
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 or AMD R9 290X (4GB VRAM with Shader Model 5.0 or better)
RAM: 8GB

The 4K-OK (2160p, 30 fps, high settings):

OS: Windows 10 (64-bit version only)
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700 @ 3.4 GHz or AMD Ryzen 5 1600X @ 3.6 GHz or equivalent
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 or AMD RX Vega 56 (8GB VRAM with Shader Model 5.0 or better)
RAM: 16GB

The 4K-Wowzers (2160p, 60 fps, high/ultra settings):

OS: Windows 10 (64-bit version only)
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.0 GHz or AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 3.4 GHz or equivalent
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 SLI or AMD RX Vega 56 CFX (8GB VRAM with Shader Model 5.0 or better)
RAM: 16GB

 

[geofelt]

You have a relatively well balance of cpu and gpu.

Your 2500K can be overclocked if you need more cpu power, and it should support a stronger graphics card in the nature of a GTX1070.

What is your psu? That will determine how strong your graphics card upgrade can be.
Here is a chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

I might suggest you first buy whatever games interest you and then see if you need more cpu or gpu power.

Do you have a budget?

If you want a significantly stronger cpu, you are also looking at a motherboard and ram change.
I think I5-6600K, Z370 motherboard and a 2 x 8gb DDR4 ram kit.

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one or more cores/threads. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of threads to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.
If you see little difference, your game does not need all the threads you have.



It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

i think your meant I5 8600K, the I5 6600K does not work with a Z370 chipset

Thanks for the catch; I updated the post.

 

[photonboy]

I would WAIT a little longer for the following reasons:

1) Graphics card prices are still inflated
2) new NVidia GPU's are coming (likely July-Sep timeframe)
3) Far Cry 5 will likely have several patches over a few months (game play glitches AND performance improvements)
4) DDR4 prices are also high (but we have no good guess as to when they should drop)

Note you'll almost certainly need to reinstall Windows to avoid problems.

BUDGET:
Does this include a new MONITOR as well? I wouldn't spend too much on PC upgrades if you have an old 1920x1080 monitor. Here's the specs of one of the BETTER monitors:
- 2560x1440
- IPS
- 144Hz+
- GSYNC (expensive)

That's roughly $700USD+ for cost. It's roughly $500+ for a non-GSYNC model.

144Hz (non-GSync/Freesync) causes CONFUSION for many people as they think they need to output 144FPS. However realistically you'd use VSYNC OFF (optionally set a manual cap of for example 50FPS and tweak the game towards that) which causes screen tear but NOT added stutter.. the screen tear however may be minor (as the refresh rate increases relative to the FPS the screen tear is reduced.. it's confusing at first I know).

A lot more stuff on monitors but I don't want to make this post any longer than it already is.

So the MONITOR may or may not need to be investigated. After that start on the CPU. For top-end builds I'd recommend the i5-8600K with a cooler like the Noctua NH-D15S (I don't like liquid coolers in general if you can avoid them).

The i5-8600K is a six-core CPU without hyperthreading. The AMD R5-1600 is a six-core CPU that HAS hyperthreading (so it's like having an extra six, SLOW cores) however it's far better to have six FASTER cores than it is to have six SLOWER cores plus hyperthreading since very few games/applications would benefit from the extra threads (even at 100% usage the R5-1600 might not be faster).

BUDGET wise the R5-1600 could make sense though so it's very important to have the TOTAL BUDGET so everything can be tweaked accordingly.

Example build (use PCPARTPICKER to experiment):
i5-8600K
Noctua NH-D15S
2x8GB 3000MHz DDR4
- suitable motherboard
- GTX1080 or similar (GTX1180?)
- monitor?
- SSD and other?

Summary:
For now I'd probably hold off for graphics card prices to drop a bit, get a GTX1080 or similar ($500USD?), then maybe see how FC5 does on your existing PC (see benchmarks for CPU) and if you can manage 60FPS 2560x1440 HIGH settings maybe that's worth staying with for now then upgrade CPU etc later?

THIS article leads me to believe you MIGHT be able to hit 60FPS, 2560x1440, HIGH/ULTRA if you just add a GTX1080:
https://www.pcgamer.com/far-cry-5-settings-and-benchmarks/

The GTX960 would be roughly 50FPS on "Normal" settings which might look okay for now but obviously not what you're aiming for. Plus you'd have screen tearing if VSYNC was OFF since I don't think you'd maintain 60FPS (on 60Hz monitor) though if you had 144Hz screen it should be okay as discussed above.

Don't play with VSYNC ON if you can't maintain the max FPS rate. (you could also force "Adaptive VSYNC Half Refresh" though that would cap to 30FPS on 60Hz monitor which would be more SLUGGISH than 60FPS/60Hz so more comparable to a console experience).

 

[photonboy]

FYI: NVidia ray-tracing
https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-rtx-real-time-game-ray-tracing
and
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/GDC-2018-Microsoft-Announces-DirectX-Raytracing-DXR

Awesome right? Well... IMO the ray-tracing in games that works on DXR (which needs a next-gen NVidia card) will take too long to be much of a factor in buying a graphics card in 2018.

Even if a game arrives in 2018/2019 we might see the same issue we saw with PhysX and other things which is the added eye-candy is often best DISABLED as it kills the frame rate... how many times have I gone back to a game 3+ years later to finally see what it looks like with all eye candy? (still can't play Witcher 3 at max settings to maintain 60FPS/2560x1440 with GTX1080 so some hair/fur is on lower settings).

I'd still WAIT until the new cards arrive later this year though as there may be other features on the card for things like VR or whatever that you may be interested in, AND by then maybe card prices will have dropped... in fact, the market might be FLOODED with used cards as an option (I prefer new).

 

[jaged]

Wow, these are all amazing responses. Thanks very much to a great community for all the advice. I have some things to consider for sure.

 

[coozie7]

@ Jaged: We really need your input here.
We need to know: Budget, monitor details and if you intend to upgrade, full system specs, including case and PSU so we know which parts can be kept and which to upgrade/replace.

In the meantime here's a worst case, full system for 1080 60Hz gaming with an eye on the cost:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($178.90 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360M DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($95.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: SanDisk - SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($44.18 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card ($328.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design - Focus G (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($118.45 @ Amazon)
Total: $1051.16
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-05 13:19 EDT-0400

 

[jaged]

@ Jaged: We really need your input here.
We need to know: Budget, monitor details and if you intend to upgrade, full system specs, including case and PSU so we know which parts can be kept and which to upgrade/replace.

In the meantime here's a worst case, full system for 1080 60Hz gaming with an eye on the cost:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($178.90 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360M DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($95.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: SanDisk - SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($44.18 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card ($328.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design - Focus G (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($118.45 @ Amazon)
Total: $1051.16
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-05 13:19 EDT-0400

Coozie,

Thank, you for the reply and the mock up system. I will have a look at it. I don't have the rest of the specs with me at the moment so i didn't include them(I'm not at home where the PC is).

Thanks again.