Computer Guru's, I need your insight

[thecletus]

To begin with, here is my project gaming PC http://pcpartpicker.com/p/stQdK8

I don't know near enough about the difference between gaming on AMD CPUs vs Intel or the benefit between dual core to quad to six etc; and how relevant any of those specs are to successful gaming.
I have read many things about every topic pertaining to every aspect of a gaming PC and have deduced the majority of the info I have found has been biased to specific games, play styles and knowledge possessed which does nothing for me. I trust the insightful answers I've seen across this forum and I hope I can get assistance from some of the knowledgeable members here.

What I'm looking for out of this PC is to play on near max or so settings for an average of ~50fps dropping to ~40fps at the absolute most stress, all while not ramming my CPU temps up to 60c or 70c or burning up my GPU. I want the rig to be more than powerful enough to deliver a smooth average of about 50 FPS and also not be at the brink of 2015 performance where in a few years I won't be restricted on a D3 sequel or a non Blizzard game I might get into. I know that's broad but I know games like Crysis are hugely demanding and I don't think I'll be interested in playing that type of game on this new PC.
Games I play are D3, SC2, Dota 2.As it stands my current rig with terrible specs runs these on medium settings with avg. 30fps give or take.
I could be wrong, but I am under the impression I don't need to upgrade too far from AMD Dual 2.6 / 4G Corsair / Radeon 6670. The 300w PSU and outdated MOBO really restricts me on upgrades here so I won't consider upgrading. Just want to share my personal experience as I feel a gaming PC is specific to them which hopefully will provide for the best input.

So to the meat of it and where I really need strong insight

I picked the i5 because I have read a lot of good things about its performance for the price, I know the CPU is the most important part to spend most of your money on when upgrading and I think this might do the trick for longevity as well. My roundabout budget is 500 USD total, and if I can fluctuate on other parts that are less important to get the CPU I need while staying roughly within the budget that would be ok. It seems like the gaming community favors Intel over AMD, though I'm only interested in sheer performance. Same thing with the GPUs though my preference is to AMD I know Nvidia is popular too.
The ASUS MOBO was a favoritism selection, I just like the company. I don't know much about how MOBOs differentiate from eachother outside of extra PCIE slots and compatibility though.
Cooler Master has a good rep also, I feel that was the best I could do yet I don't want to cut my cooling short for the difference of a few bucks.
The Radeon R7 360 has really good reviews and the specs stomp a lot of other low end cards, regardless of price point it just looks beasty while the 750 ti was its close competitor. Only problem was the 750 clocked at 4k mhz against the R7s 1100 or so.
The case and power supply were also impulse. Again I stick with brands I like, EVGA and Corsair aint ever did nothin to nobody. I do like a sleek looking unobtrusive case too.

So I've put a lot of thought into some of my selections while less in others. I tend to shy away from things I don't know enough about and just pick whatever when it comes to PCs. I would love to spend 400 bucks if I could, but I wouldn't be in trouble with more than 500 just if I could avoid it and still get what I want that would be ideal. I'm not looking to play the most exclusive games on maximum settings with 100 FPS is basically what I'm saying.
A revision of that parts list and or significant input on any of the parts would be a really big help. I'm looking build this PC this week and as it stands that's what it's going to look like, though I'm sure you guys probably have some tweaks or all around item swaps that would suit me better.
I left out the HD and RAM on the list, I've got a 1tb WD and 4x1GB corsair 800mhz, they're not the greatest but at the same time I can upgrade them in the future while not taking away from performance too much in this PC build, which again I could be wrong about. I don't know how this ended up being an entire page worth of babbling but if you managed to get through it and have some tips for me that would be great haha

 

[Gingerbread]

Ok so first of all, since you will be using a h170 motherboard and non-K series of CPU (which is a great choice, one of the best value oriented the 6500) you can drop the CM 212. It is made for overclocking and you won't be doing that so use the stock cooler which will come with the i5-6500. Motherboard is a mini-ATX, making it small and restricted when it comes to some features. Either go for a micro-atx or normal atx, unless you plan on doing some really small PC. You can't reuse the ram unfortunately as yours is DDR2 and you need DDR4. Also that psu might be an EVGA but is really low quality. The GPU is really weak as well. It won't run games good, you will have to invest more.

For your needs this is the best you can get, but you will need money.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XDmCGX

 

[synphul]

I think you'll get a significant upgrade over what you've got now.

That aside, I think you'd be better off with a different psu. Maybe something like this.
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-vp450

It should be fine even though it's a lower tier psu since you're not overclocking or running a high power video card. I wouldn't be quick to trust a brand new system on a $22 psu, potentially risking $500 worth of hardware to save $10-20 just isn't worth it in my opinion. Just keep in mind it's still a fairly low power, low budget psu and if/when you want to upgrade your graphics card you may very well be in need of upgrading your power supply again as well.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.98 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H170M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($90.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 360 2GB Core Edition Video Card ($103.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($32.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $542.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-12 05:45 EST-0500

I know you like asus which is fine but ddr3 is not recommended for skylake. Ddr3L (low power ddr3, not regular ddr3) or ddr4 are what intel has approved for use with skylake cpu's. For that reason I suggested a different motherboard and 8gb of the appropriate ram for skylake.

 

[garrett1986]

overall good choices you may want to save a bit more money tho as you can get alot more boom for your dollar in some areas.

CPU good pick, maybe consider getting the K version as they have alot of headroom for overclocking

CPU cooler, good pick cheap but effective

Motherboard, Good pick on ASUS generally speaking they offer the absolute best for the money in the motherboard department

GPU, good for the money for sure but im recommending the MSI 390 to everyone it simply is monstrously powerful for the price and is definitely one of those cards you will be using 2+ years from now and still playing almost all games on ultra settings. It would easily play the games you listed at 4K for example. if you couldn't afford a 390 i would recommend at least a MSI 380/X then. reason i recommend MSI for the 300 series is because the cooler they use actively cools both the memory and the VRMS on the card which means lower temps all around and a much longer lifespan. also MSI cherry picks their GPU's (as long as its not an "LE" version) on the 380/390's.

case, really up to you but it looks solid

PSU, to cheap never ever cheap out on your power supply it runs the risk of burning up (literally) the rest of your PC. simply put FSP makes the best there is and i wouldn't recommend any PSU that wasn't at least $60 USD simply for quality and safety.

I would recommend something along this line of PSU's
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657%20600037998&IsNodeId=1&Description=FSP&bop=And&Order=RATING&PageSize=30

the old ram should be fine until later, you may not even need to replace it for any other reason then to upgrade to 8gb.

HDD should be fine as well, you should consider grabbing an SSD at some point once you try them you never want to go back.

 

[JerryJF]

i would recommend a gtx 960 (asus is only about $170ish) which outperforms 380 at a lower price.
To cut the cost of your new build, you can always reuse your old pc case.
Also, if you are on a tight budget, you dont have to go for 170 chipset and skylake, 97 chipset and Haswell i5 are just as capable at gaming at a lower price. Majority of the gamers are still rocking older hardwares; only the new builder are going for the latest stuff which you will be paying a premium for going for the latest unless the previous generation hardware can not meet your demand.
Since the games that you play are not the most demanding, i would suggest you to consider last generation hardware which are just as powerful but a bit cheaper; you are on a fairly tight budget here for a gaming build. Consider it.

 

[thecletus]

OK, really good info here. The DDR2 I have may not work, throw 50 bucks at something that will.
I don't know why I wanted to cheap out on a PSU, you're absolutely right that is a terrible idea hahah and I may indeed want to upgrade the GPU at some point and not factor the price of my GPU in addition with a new PSU.
Good call on the MOBO, compatibility is hugely important and something I know little about.
So I could potentially go with something that looked like this
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/scmCGX
Taking into consideration both the CPU/MOBO combo and the nothing less than 60$ PSU (which is probably a solid staple to go by) I could have a beasty enough computer for the next several or more years.

I don't think the R7 360 is very weak, though by comparison the high end R9 380 is excessively stronger I don't know if it would be overkill for the type of games I play. http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-build-guide-budget-gaming-pc/ This guy suggests it as well as the ASrock MOBO yet his build offers a weak CPU.

The predicament I now face isn't the increased budget but the question of whether to shoot for an AMD MOBO/CPU combo with potentially a stronger GPU than I picked or to just stick with the Intel pairing. It's confusing how Intel is more expensive than AMD regarding CPU..yet so many people say AMD is better. Thoughts?

 

[thecletus]

i would recommend a gtx 960 (asus is only about $170ish) which outperforms 380 at a lower price.
To cut the cost of your new build, you can always reuse your old pc case.
Also, if you are on a tight budget, you dont have to go for 170 chipset and skylake, 97 chipset and Haswell i5 are just as capable at gaming at a lower price. Majority of the gamers are still rocking older hardwares; only the new builder are going for the latest stuff which you will be paying a premium for going for the latest unless the previous generation hardware can not meet your demand.
Since the games that you play are not the most demanding, i would suggest you to consider last generation hardware which are just as powerful but a bit cheaper; you are on a fairly tight budget here for a gaming build. Consider it.

Really good points. My budget is more like a how much money do I want to waste on myself kind of thing coupled with the need for longevity of the rig to a reasonable degree. I'm not interested in the latest and greatest however, I'm a lot like the majority when it comes to rocking the best of whats within reason. I'm still gonna use the old PC if I have to buy more ram and an eventual SSD anyways so perhaps I'll just find a cheaper case and that partpicker website is pretty good about matching compatibility.
I'm interested in your options of CPU though, 97 chipset and haswell i5 are they as good an investment as the one I listed?

 

[JerryJF]

Personally, I'd say yes. the i5 6500 and the H170 is just the replacement of last gen hardware, to differentiate the new tech with newer features and a little speed boost, intel decided to but an extra pin in the cpu (1150 to 1151). Most gamers have a about 3 year upgrade cycle. Skylake is better than Haswell, no argument there, but the improvement is marginal. Because your computing power demand is not that high, I suggest that you save a few bucks and use that in future upgrades.
Dont get sucked into all the youtube tech videos on reviews on new tech. A lot of get sponsored by tech companies, while their personal rig is rock much older hardware. Some of them do have latest, but they didnt buy it, it was given by the tech companies to promote, and those people may be real pc enthusiasts. But trust me, they review plenty of hardware and if their personal rig at home is running older gen hardware, then...it does say something about dropping cash on the latest tech, which will be out of date soon.
I'd say 97 chipset and Haswell i5

 

[thecletus]

I tried to take everybody's input and lump it together in this list http://pcpartpicker.com/p/D42x4D though I did some googling on 97 has i5 and couldn't find exactly which CPU that was but I would add it to that list in place of what's currently there as the cheaper older gen equivalent is down my alley.
It is difficult to pick the best rig for myself because while everyone has good input on certain parts they usually all differ so I do rely heavily on followups. That list takes the better RAM GPU MOBO PSU and eventually CPU options from everyone that's contributed here to help me out. I do really appreciate it. If there are more tweaks I need to make, please chime in. Probably my biggest concern now that I'm over 600 is the question of the CPU being worth investing the other 400. Not in a bottlenecking sort of way but the CPU/MOBO combo being the most important foundation to an upgrade I don't want to cheap out on them needlessly. I'm flexible with a couple bucks if it makes a huge difference basically. Like that R9 380 vs the R7 360 didn't seem like the extra 200 bucks was worth throwing at graphics when compared to the necessity of a strong PSU and other must have additions to the rig, while that GTX 960 was similarly priced but much stronger. I guess this is confusing but it's a lot of different specs to consider on a purchase this big.

 

[JerryJF]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dkfm6h
Compare to the original build list, it includes ram and a powerful gpu.
Since the cpu will and cannot be overclocked, stock heatsink is good enough.
Gtx950 was chosen over gtx960 because, I feel for the games that you play(listed) gtx 950 should be able to handle it. (but you can spare the extra cash, gtx960 is the way to go).
A 430w psu was chosen because gtx 950 only required 350w psu.

 

[thecletus]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mTstP6 This is what I came out to. Almost double my predicted budget but I went for a stronger CPU that could be overclocked with a more powerful GPU.
If you guys have any tips on this build where I might have made a bad selection or need liquid cooling, which I don't know much about, or anything else please add your opinion.

 

[Gingerbread]

Ok getting closer, but you need a Z170 motherboard, the cooling is perfect, and remove that gtx 960 and get an r9 380. Also that PSU was not that good, here is my suggestion:
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/
Also you can go for 2x4gb to save some money.

 

[synphul]

I tried to read through some of the suggestions and see some serious issues. People suggesting your current ram is fine until later, false. If you're using ddr2 at the moment, you need new ram. Whether haswell or skylake, ddr3 for haswell, ddr4/ddr3L for skylake. No ddr2 support.

Liquid cooling is overkill for a locked cpu, even an aftermarket cooler is more of a luxury. Locked being cpu's without the 'K' designation. Current pricing when looking at the skylake vs haswell locked i5's are pretty close in US pricing, around $10 difference between the i5 4590 and i5 6500. Ddr4 prices have dropped considerably the past several months and are competitive to ddr3 pricing for the most part.

Nothing wrong with a gtx 960 for the games the op is looking to play. The r9 380 isn't much better, the two trade blows and often the 960 is ahead of the 380.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1596?vs=1591

The 960 is stronger than my older hd7850 which is stronger than the op's current gpu and my gpu handles a variety of games fine. Likely games a bit more demanding for visuals than the op mentioned, diablo 3, starcraft 2, dota2 don't require a ton of gpu horsepower and the r9 380 is pretty well tied with the 960. My 7850 handles skyrim with around 50 mods including some visual improvements, farcry3, cod ghosts, fo3, crysis2 etc at 1080p on very high/ultra around 60fps or better. Bottom line the 960 would be fine.

Not saying the r9 380 is bad but there's no good reason to push it over the 960 and saying the 960 has to keep being removed and replaced for an equal level card doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[thecletus]

I am actually torn between the i5 6500 and the 6600 K overclock-able. Part of me wants to go with the K just to overclock it because why not, especially after investing this much money.
Though it would also be silly to take a risk, if even slight, on a CPU that's 50 dollars more and will only go a little faster with overclocking. Yet the last thing I want is 1000 dollars later to be wanting for more performance. I've got a very old rig, have been playing on low tier junk all my life. This being the first upgrade I've ever done on PCs I know little more than I read about, 0 first hand experience. I was about to finalize purchases with the 6600 K for overclocking and swap the coolermaster for liquid cooling if needed, which I may still do. I really don't know at this point haha.
On another note regarding the Intel chips http://www.anandtech.com/show/9848/bclk-overclocking-intels-non-k-skylake-processors-coming-soon

I didn't mean to select the two 8 gig RAM sticks, everywhere I've read says the games don't even utilize that much. Save 40 bucks sticking with 2x4 gig.
A lot of these guys on the i5 6600 K also went for the GTX 970, and the one's that didn't went for R9 380 http://pcpartpicker.com/builds/#c=289 but also opted for the liquid cooling. I'm under the impression new age CPUs that get overclocked just about require liquid cooling.
Many who went with the i5 6500 bought the GTX 970, 960 and also the R9 380. No liquid cooling though.
The funny thing is 500 dollars ago I was in my budget range telling myself I'm not going to just buy what all the other gamers are buying but the more I dig into this subject the more it looks like they're on those rigs for a reason. I could swap around and save 50 bucks here or there, maybe come out to 100 dollars less than I'm at now, but I don't think it would matter much at this point.

 

[synphul]

There isn't a specific gaming pc build but there are quite a few things many gaming rigs have in common. There are only so many mid/upper end parts to choose from. It also depends on the games. Some people want to run witcher 3, others are happy with minecraft or wow. "Games" is a loose definition and really many are just like different programs with different requirements to run smooth. Budget is always part of the factor.

Newer cpu's needing water cooling to overclock isn't true, it depends on the cpu. Aio coolers are an option though rarely necessary. It may come down to looks, some people just don't like the look of a larger air cooler. Or people who travel a lot going to lan parties may not want a larger/heavy cooler that they have to be careful of bouncing around too much toting it back and forth. If the pc lives on/under a desk and doesn't get taken everywhere it's a non issue.

When it comes to intel cpu's the core voltage will almost always be a limiting factor before heat provided someone's using a decent cooler. Using my own i5 4690k as an example, while overclocking I ran out of vcore headroom. 1.4v is considered to be the upper limits of 'safe' and many consider 1.3v to be around the max safe voltage for 24/7 daily use. Going from 4.1 to 4.2 to 4.3 ghz only took slight vcore increases.

Once I went from 4.4 to 4.5 I needed an additional .02 or .03v, going to 4.6ghz it needed a bit more pushing me to 1.28-1.29v. To get 4.7ghz I had to raise my vcore to around 1.35 or 1.36v, so around .08v just to reach the next multiplier. That's a large jump and indicated my cpu was reaching its physical limits. Cooling wasn't the issue and this is common for newer intel cpu's. Going from an air cooler to a dual fan radiator aio like the h100i or even a 360mm or 420mm radiator with 8 fans in push/pull with a custom loop would have made 0 difference in terms of raising my overclock. Out of voltage is out of voltage. You can't just keep cranking it up, eventually too much voltage will harm the cpu.

Unless you live in a really hot climate where ambient room temps are frequently 30c or higher, aio cooling is overkill for a locked cpu. The stock cooler or a budget aftermarket cooler are all that's needed. Overclocking doesn't give that much gain on most games, a few fps difference on other games. For that reason many say overclocking for gaming purposes is a waste of time and on that point they're right.

Where overclocking comes in for gaming is usually later on, after a few years and games become more intensive, gpu's become higher powered and need a cpu that will keep up with them. For instance someone with an i5 2500k now after the cpu is several years old, at stock speeds and due to older generation ipc efficiency it may not be as fast as a current 4th or 6th gen i5 in gaming. However if it's overclocked it's possible for the cpu to be boosted enough to remain relevant for another year or two. Overclocking an older i5 speeds it up, compensating for the lower ipc compared to the newer gen and has it running on par with a new gen i5.

That's only one way to go, other people prefer to just buy cheaper locked i5's (or i7's) and upgrade the cpu and motherboard more often. More often doesn't mean it will only remain useful for a year and immediately need an upgrade, but instead of lasting 5-6 years with good performance it may only give 3 or 4 years before it becomes apparent it's aging. Time frames are just estimation, each case will be different for each user depending on preferred games, requirements and actual performance needs.