Question Concerned about Lightning Strikes and building a hard wired/wireless home network

[Shopman]

I live in central Florida and this area is one of the highest locations in the country for lightning strikes. I've already experienced multiple lightning strikes on my property in the last two years I've been here and had some significant electronic failures because of such. I have a second building on site besides my living residence and I have underground conduits that run between the two, 1 conduit for Power and a separate conduit for Cat 6. I want to connect the SHOP to the House with 1 main Cat 6 cable. Once I'm in the shop Ill go wireless to everything in the shop.

.Id like to connect the SHOP Cat 6 cable to my House modem WIRELESSLY to eliminate the possibility of a lighting strike from taking out my House netwrok. . So the Flow I would like to see would be this:

1. House Modem / Router which is hardwired to the street supply wirelessly connected to :
2. XXXXX ( a wireless receiver - Don't know what this would be) - this would be hardwired to Shop via CAT6
3 XXXXX ( The other end of the CAT 6 from House which is hardwired) and also this would then transmit wirelessly to my devise in Shop

The "XXXX" are two pieces of equipment that will connect at both buildings via hard wire and MUST transmit full band width (not a repeater setup).

Basically I want the Cat 6 cable to be wirelessly connected to the House and The Shop to prevent any thing the cat 6 in the conduit may pick up from damaging the House or the shop equipment.

So...now that I've stated my inquiry 3 ways to be clear (sorry for the redundancy) What pieces of equipment do I need?

Thanks for the help !


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[punkncat]

Have you considered using quality surge protection?

Admittedly, lightning is a quantity that is unknown in relation to the amount of protection you might need for that once in a decade strike. It can make it hard to discern what is an acceptable level of protection vs. price.

Professionally, I use DITEK surge protection for anything I want to be safe commiserate with a cost that makes sense as related to the equipment being protected.

 

[Shopman]

I appreciate the quick response but - I've had lightning strikes in Trees 20 ft from the house...The roots of the tree ran close to sprinkler control lines. The strike ran thru the sprinkler lines across the top of the buried conduit (conduits are 30 inches below sprinkler control lines) and the strike still got in my house, also damaged outside generator AND my pool control system which is on the other side of my house NOT connected to my house network, . I don't really think even Quality surge suppression would stop that. Thats why I want Air brakes on both ends of the Cat 6

 

[bill001g]

Lighting seems to get though anything. I had it pass though multiple surge protection and a UPS. It did not even damage the UPS.

It is surprising it traveled underground. The ground itself should absorb it. That is why lightning rods are "grounded".

Maybe run a steel or copper wire along the outside your conduit....I assume it plastic... and then drive a grounding rod on one end.

Metal conduit should have dumped the lightning into the ground.

In any case what you are looking for a simple point to point bridge. You are never going to get gigabit speeds and you might from time to time get interference...it is still wifi.

ubiquiti sell quit a range of these devices. Now if you have thousands of dollars they do make ones that can transfer gigabit speeds.

Problem is you now in a way have 2 new lightning attractors on the side of each building. To work best you need to mount them so they have clear line of sight, normally at the roof level or slightly above. You don't want say a truck parked in between to block your signal.

I don't think there is a actual solution for lightning. It put a crack in a solid concrete wall in the building across from where I used to work.

 

[Shopman]

Bill - thanks for the reply...but I don't want to go the way your stating. I want to go hard wired underground. Don't want the two out side units. Don't they make something like what I'm looking for. I know they make the unit for Inside my shop....I actually have that unit already. Im looking for the unit for in my house that will NOT be hard wire to my modem/router

 

[bill001g]

Kinda a strange requirement.

It is still pretty much the same equipment running is different modes. In effect what you are doing is building your own repeater.

You would want an wireless bridge on side with the router. You would then use the unit in the remote building a AP so end device could connect to is.

The tricky part is going to be your router. The problem you have is multiple mac addresses are going to share the connection between the bridge and the router. This huge problem because the wifi encryption keys contain the mac address.

Two kinda common solution. You use a non standard function called WDS. Almost all repeaters used this and most router support it even though it is non standard and considered a security violation.

A second way that some device work, I think ubiquiti does, is run what some call universal repeater mode. It in effect does NAT on the mac addresses.

You could also run with no encryption but that is a bad idea.

The unit on the remote end is just a standard AP or pretty much any router running in AP mode.

 

[Shopman]

OK...I read what you wrote...but to be honest - Im NOT an IT guy...so Im kinda lost...

 

[bill001g]

This is not a very common things to do so you are going to have to do some learning of the basic wifi stuff. I would still look at something like ubiquiti equipment, although it is complex because it can run in many modes I know you will be able to get it to work.

The other option would be to buy a couple of consumer grade repeaters and maybe they would work

In effect you would run.

---isp--router.......wifi signal....repeater in bridge mode-----ethernet-----repeater in AP mode........wifi to end devices.

 

[kanewolf]

If you have conduit, you could pull fiber rather than copper. No electrical continuity with fiber. Put a switch with fiber port or media converter at each end of the fiber.

 

[Shopman]

Fiber...ok....help me out a bit...what equipment you talking about?

 

[punkncat]

Something to consider, and I understand your reticence, but one of the largest issues with proper surge protection is insufficient ground. None of the better devices work at their best without a dedicated path to ground. A bit of what was touched on above.

 

[kanewolf]

Fiber...ok....help me out a bit...what equipment you talking about?

You need to know the total length you need. Then you buy pre-terminated fiber either with a custom length or a standard length greater than the total length you need. At each end of the fiber you need a device to convert from copper to fiber. That can be a switch with a fiber port or a media converter. The switches could be something like this -- https://mikrotik.com/product/RB260GS You would get one of these -- https://mikrotik.com/product/S-85DLC05D-180 to plug into the switch to connect the fiber. Media converters are something like this -- https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-SFP-Dual-Transceiver-1000Base-Tx/dp/B099JF9KJD/?th=1

 

[Shopman]

You need to know the total length you need. Then you buy pre-terminated fiber either with a custom length or a standard length greater than the total length you need. At each end of the fiber you need a device to convert from copper to fiber. That can be a switch with a fiber port or a media converter. The switches could be something like this -- https://mikrotik.com/product/RB260GS You would get one of these -- https://mikrotik.com/product/S-85DLC05D-180 to plug into the switch to connect the fiber. Media converters are something like this -- https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-SFP-Dual-Transceiver-1000Base-Tx/dp/B099JF9KJD/?th=1

Understood ! I saw the premade cables earlier...and the other equipment your suggesting looks to be about $150.....plus the premade cable (yes?) So looks like this IS the way to go. Ill have to read up on connectivity - but thank you.

 

[kanewolf]

Understood ! I saw the premade cables earlier...and the other equipment your suggesting looks to be about $150.....plus the premade cable (yes?) So looks like this IS the way to go. Ill have to read up on connectivity - but thank you.

Before you purchase your parts, post links to what you are going to buy here. That way you can get them reviewed for compatibility. For your cable you want OM3 with LC terminations. Many here will suggest OS1 (single mode) fiber. That can also work, but you need to be sure you get either ALL multimode parts or ALL single mode parts.

 

[Shopman]

Kanewolf

I went with the equipment you spoke about because I dont know enough to pick other suppliers, Here are the pieces of equipment I am looking at purchasing for this Job. At the bottom of this post are my questions ..

Qty-2
Amazon.com: Mikrotik RB260GS (CSS106-5G-1S) small SOHO Switch 5x Gigabit Ethernet, one SFP cage powered by an Atheros Switch Chip, plastic case, SwOS (Original Version) : Electronics

Qty-2
Amazon.com: 1.25G SFP 1000Base-SX, 850nm MMF, up to 550 Meters, Compatible with Mikrotik S-85DLC05D : Electronics


Cable
Amazon.com: FLYPROFiber LC to LC Fiber Patch Cable OM3 75M, Length Options: 0.2m-200m, 10GB Multimode Duplex LC-LC 50/125um Fiber Optic Cable Cord LSZH-75Meter(246ft) : Electronics


As you suggested - below would be the media converters
Amazon.com: A Pair of 1.25G/s Bidi Gigabit Multi-Mode Fiber Ethernet Media Converter with 2PCS Bidi SFP LC Dual Transceiver Module Included, 10/100/1000Base-Tx to 1000Base-SX SMF RJ45 to SFP Slot up to 550M : Electronics

I believe the Switches you suggested would give me more connectivity vs the media converters. Yes ? No? do I need that?
Additional questions would be:

• Is there a cable length restriction with fiber? I would think it would not be like Cat 5 or 6.
• Is there a better cable?
• Is there a preference to do the switches vs the media converters?
• Which set up (switch vs converters) will be easier to setup and maintain?
• I'm unfamiliar with Mikrotik. Are they a good manufacturer? Reliable?
• I didn't see if these parts are all OM3 like the cable is I selected..

Please advise....
and Thank You

 

[kanewolf]

• Is there a cable length restriction with fiber? I would think it would not be like Cat 5 or 6.
• Is there a better cable?
• Is there a preference to do the switches vs the media converters?
• Which set up (switch vs converters) will be easier to setup and maintain?
• I'm unfamiliar with Mikrotik. Are they a good manufacturer? Reliable?
• I didn't see if these parts are all OM3 like the cable is I selected..

Yes there are cable length limitations. Look at the chart in this page -- https://megladonmfg.com/10g-multimode-fiber-distance/ Gigabit on the OM3 fiber is 1000m !!!
Is there better cable? There is ALWAYS better. Is the cost worthwhile? You have conduit. As long as you protect the pulling end and don't pull excessively hard, you shouldn't have an issue. Remember to pull an additional pull-string with the fiber to replace the one you are using in the pull.
Switches vs media converters. It really depends on the need for the additional ethernet ports. Either one will provide the link to the remote.
Media converters are simpler. They require NO setup. Plug them in and go.
Mikrotik is a reliable supplier. Their hardware is top-notch but their advanced software features can be intimidating.
OM3 is a grade of multi-mode fiber. The only "compatible" thing is the optics. You have 1000SX. That is compatible.

 

[bill001g]

I think the main difference between the 2 options is the pricing. You likely could buy very cheap 5 port switches and connect them to the media converters for less money than using the microtik devices.

By default the microtik devices run in unmanaged mode...I think it has been a few years since I played with one. Those switches are very powerful if you would ever need extra features. The key they support is vlans but they also have traffic filtering. I also think you can upgrade the software to the routeros versions and they can actually run full routing protocols like a commercial router.

I suspect thought they can be used without configuration.

The optics you are looking at are rated to 550meters. There are others that can go 1000 meters. Although the units you are looking at don't support it you can get optics that can go 100 meters over OM3 fiber at 100gbit. You can go many kilometers using fiber and optics like ISP do.

The key warning is be extremely careful about that fiber. It is not designed to be pulled though conduit. If you were to do something as simple as wrap it around your finger it would crack it internally and destroy it. Be very gentle with it.
What I always did was lay it out and tape a string to the fiber at many places along the length. That way you pull the string and the fiber does not have 1 stress point if you were to tape a string to just a end. Pull very slowly and if you feel any resistance at all try to figure out why. Do not attempt to remove the string if you taped it the full length.

Fiber designed to be pulled through conduit has a strong outer plastic jacket and many time steel wire. They use the steel wire to allow the fiber to be located underground in addition to allowing it to be pulled long distances. The problem with type of fiber is it is sold only in bulk and you have to put the ends on yourself which takes very special tools.

Patch cords work you just have to go slow and be careful.

 

[Shopman]

Thanks both Kane & Bill for the info.
Questions:
I was planning on pulling CAT 6 cables along with this Fiber..so I can tape them together as a strong pull wire....
The CAT 6 was going to be for Cameras...Could I just use the multi port switches and connect my cameras into that - then at the house end with the other switch - separate my camera feeds back out and then to my DVR? (or is that all OLD SCHOOL way of thinking?)
Am I making things too complicated by doing it that way?

 

[Shopman]

And is this a better / stronger cable?

https://www.amazon.com/Jeirdus-Outd...c1a776d5d&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

[Shopman]

Hmmmm....I would also think that steel reinforced fiber cable means its some what conductive to lightning?

 

[bill001g]

That cable won't work it is single mode cable you need multimode cable. You could of course use different SFP modules that support singlemode fiber. Single mode fiber mostly used to longer distances.

Fiber takes lots of learning of what all those strange letters and numbers mean. There are a lot of different kinds of fiber and optic modules and even multiple different types of ends. lc-lc represents the connectors on either end of the cable for example.

Ethernet cable will be fine to use as a pull string. I just used a much thinner nylon string when I did it and had no issues.

Since your main reason for doing this is to not have a metal path you have to be very careful what you have the ethernet connected to.

Now this is where you can use the fancy features of the microtik.

We will see how bad my keyboard art is

----net 1--|%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|--net 1
%%%%%|switch-----fiber----switch|
----net 2--| %%%%%%%%%%%%%%|--net 2

What you can do is run vlans over the fiber using tags. On the end switches you can assign different ports to different vlans. You can of course plug other switch into those ports to increase the number of ports on either end.

You need to think of vlans as having a pair of switches on each end connected by their own fiber. Of course this is all virtual and the bandwidth on the fiber is shared total of 1gbit.

------------well that took a couple tries maybe I should have just made a image. Ignore the % pretend they are blanks

 

[Shopman]

Your Graphics worked out great ! Totally understood. And thanks for the help. So If I understand you correctly I can attach a multiple port switches into the media converters for expansion (this one https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-SFP-...are-us-5805047300708000000-20&geniuslink=true)

Also - I decided NOT to use the single strand Reinforced cable because it has the steel shell.

SO ..what I have selected - the patch cable
Amazon.com: FLYPROFiber LC to LC Fiber Patch Cable OM3 75M, Length Options: 0.2m-200m, 10GB Multimode Duplex LC-LC 50/125um Fiber Optic Cable Cord LSZH-75Meter(246ft) : Electronics

and the two media converters listed above will do the trick if I connect a wireless router to the media converter in my shop and the other media converter to my Modem/router in my house?

 

[bill001g]

Yes that will work. As long as you are ok with only having a single network. You need a switch that supports vlans on each end if you want to have 2 isolated networks.

 

[Shopman]

Yes that will work. As long as you are ok with only having a single network. You need a switch that supports vlans on each end if you want to have 2 isolated networks.

Please define "Only a single Network" ..why would I need more than 1?

 

[bill001g]

I always keep my security cameras off the network that can get to the internet. Paranoid I guess, the security on a "security" camera tends to be pretty bad.

Another thing fiber ports have a transmit and receive port. You must be sure that the fiber strand that is in the transmit port on one end hooks to the receive port on the other.
Some patch cable come crossed and other you must remove the plastic clip on one end swap the position. If they are actually made like the photo shows you can see they are swapped and you can use them as is.