CONFUSED: Phenon II X6 1055T CPU bottleneck with GTX 1070 TI for 1440p gaming

[w8lkinusa]

Hello,

I've been reading through so many theads, but am still terribly confused. The thebottlenecker.com calculator says that I should get a newer CPU for the Geforce GTX 1070 Ti video card, but the calculator does not take screen resolution into account.

I'd rather not upgrade my computer (for now); instead, just max out the video card for my system since I need Windows 10 soon. This machine was set up mostly for headless Linux while my work laptop is connected to my two monitors via Windows 7.

Here are some details on my PC. (Power supply calculator states that I have just barely enough juice, but can upgrade later)
- Monitor: Dell U2718Q 27'' 4K 60Hz & Dell S2417DG 24'' 1440p GSYNC 165Hz
- Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4290 (integrated)
- Motherboard: MSI 890GXM-G65 motherboard
- Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8 GHz 125-Watt
- Heatsink Fan: Corsair H## water cooler
- Memory: 32GB (4 x 8GB) G.SKILL Sniper DDR3 1866
- Hard Disk Drive: Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD
- Power Supply: CORSAIR CS450M 80 PLUS GOLD (426-watt on +12V; 110-watt on +3.3V and +5V)
EDIT: Internet Pipe: 60kbps down / 5kbps up

I'm interested in 1440p gaming with my 27'' 4K monitor and am limited to 60Hz. I can't imagine getting high FPS rates with my 24'' 1440p monitor, but will try it out anyways.

I only have Battlefield 3, but hope to pick up Battlefield 1 at some point. I don't game much, but enjoy dabbling every so often. I might dabble in other games if I like the experience with my new setup.

Am I wasting money with this video card? Any advice and direction would be greatly appreciated.

 

[volkgren]

You'd be pushing it awful close to the limit of your 450W power supply with that system if you added a 1070 Ti. I'd recommend you get a new PSU. EVGA 650 G3 is a good one. There are others as well.

Overclock your Phenom II X6 1055T. Get as close to 4GHz as you can. I'm seeing several videos of the Phenom II X6 with GTX 1070, 1080, etc. doing well enough to upgrade, but they usually have it OC'd to 3.5-4.1Ghz.

 

[serioussamik17]

As you rightly said, that PSU is not safe for upgrading to a 1070Ti. Especially when put in your rig which already has a 125 watt CPU, custom CPU cooler, 4 RAM slots occupied and a SSD. Get something around 650 watt from a good brand (Corsair is fine btw) before you contemplate buying the card. That way, you will also get extra headroom for other upgrades (say an extra hard drive or a full system upgrade in future, when you can keep the PSU).

If you are looking at gaming at 1440p, you would be good with a 1070ti with that Phenom II .Yep there would be some bottleneck, but that doesn't warrant a full upgrade as you are an occasional gamer (BF1 would run just fine at high settings and you will get much increased productivity in non-gaming applications as well).

 

[volkgren]

Get something around 650 watt from a good brand (Corsair is fine btw)

Just don't get the Corsair VS. That is not a gaming PSU. CX650 is okay. TX650m is good. RM650x is great.

 

[jojesa]

The Phenon II X6 was an amazing CPU, still is for some tasks, but BF1 is CPU intensive and it will be running at 100% CPU usage while the 1070 might hover around 60% usage.

 

[pstefa1707]

You definitely need a new CPU! If budget is an issue buy a high end 4th gen cpu, other than that u need an i5 8600 or better... CPU is a HUGE bottleneck atm definately look into upgrading!

 

[w8lkinusa]

You'd be pushing it awful close to the limit of your 450W power supply with that system if you added a 1070 Ti. I'd recommend you get a new PSU. EVGA 650 G3 is a good one. There are others as well.

Overclock your Phenom II X6 1055T. Get as close to 4GHz as you can. I'm seeing several videos of the Phenom II X6 with GTX 1070, 1080, etc. doing well enough to upgrade, but they usually have it OC'd to 3.5-4.1Ghz.

Thank you for the good news.

My original plan was to play it safe with the GTX 1060, but the GTX 1070 Ti seemed like funner gamble. For the 1070 Ti, I figured a 500-watt or 600-watt power supply would be sufficient, but may go with your recommendation of 650-watts due to the CPU overclock recommendation. EVGA's G3 as well as Corsairs Platinum were previously on my radar; I'm glad I'm on the right track.

I doubt my existing configuration will allow me to get much past 3.2Ghz on my CPU due to a small-ish case and airflow. I would like to keep this PC as quiet as possible, but only manually turn up the case fan while gaming.

 

[w8lkinusa]

As you rightly said, that PSU is not safe for upgrading to a 1070Ti. Especially when put in your rig which already has a 125 watt CPU, custom CPU cooler, 4 RAM slots occupied and a SSD. Get something around 650 watt from a good brand (Corsair is fine btw) before you contemplate buying the card. That way, you will also get extra headroom for other upgrades (say an extra hard drive or a full system upgrade in future, when you can keep the PSU).

If you are looking at gaming at 1440p, you would be good with a 1070ti with that Phenom II .Yep there would be some bottleneck, but that doesn't warrant a full upgrade as you are an occasional gamer (BF1 would run just fine at high settings and you will get much increased productivity in non-gaming applications as well).

Years ago, I've read about great stability results with Corsair supplying the limitations of its proclaimed wattage. Upon looking at the power supply unit's sticker, the wattage between the +12V, +3.3v, and +5V is 426+110+536-watts. Based on the +12V alone, I'd be hitting a ~92% utilization rate with my existing power supply. I am on the fence about using this power supply until next month or the new year without overclocking my CPU. Truthfully, I am more comfortable with hitting a 80-85% maximum utilization rate.

Since I have a good file server, I will not add any more hard disk drives. Currently, both my 256GB and 512GB SSD drives are on it, but I don't need all that storage space. My Windows 10 and Ubuntu 18.04 LTS dual boot will use very little of my 512GB SSD drive even with a few games installed.

While my upgrade path is still undecided, I have been curious about a 2018 Mac Mini for some time since it has 64GB RAM support if I should require it for a Windows Server during web development (a possible career path). If I decide to build my own PC for the Windows Server, then I will probably go with the most energy efficient options that would be available. However, I see an issue with building a compact PC that will support 64GB RAM; there just doesn't seem to be a market for 64GB on Pico-ITX, Nano-ITX, Mini-ITX, or even Micro-ATX motherboards. I currently have a Micro-ATX motherboard, but dream of a smaller footprint.

You see, I just can't afford to spend to much money on gaming since I'd rather direct it towards more productive uses. With efficiency in mind, I will still need to evaluate my power supply needs. I would prefer the smallest wattage capacity as possible; therefore, the 600-watt and 650-watt Corsair Platinum and EVGA G3 power supplies will be in contention.

 

[w8lkinusa]

Get something around 650 watt from a good brand (Corsair is fine btw)

Just don't get the Corsair VS. That is not a gaming PSU. CX650 is okay. TX650m is good. RM650x is great.

I was only looking at the Corsair Platinum and EVGA G3 power supply units for my solution, but I'll look into your proposed options with time. Thanks.

 

[w8lkinusa]

The Phenon II X6 was an amazing CPU, still is for some tasks, but BF1 is CPU intensive and it will be running at 100% CPU usage while the 1070 might hover around 60% usage.

This is the sort of actionable insights that I was also hoping to get. Your predictions with standard CPU clocks are satisfactory.
For BF1, what image quality settings do you think I can achieve with a standard 2.8GHz CPU vs a 3.2GHz CPU overclock?

I am anything, but a gamer since I embody sheer ignorance in gaming genres. I may consider spreading my wings later on. I believe other gaming titles might use the 1070 Ti graphics card more fully.

 

[w8lkinusa]

You definitely need a new CPU! If budget is an issue buy a high end 4th gen cpu, other than that u need an i5 8600 or better... CPU is a HUGE bottleneck atm definately look into upgrading!

The 1070 Ti graphics card costs $433. A solid and efficient power supply will cost $75-150.

You are now saying that I should just upgrade my computer. That alone without a video card and power supply can easily cost another $300+ if I can still repurpose my 32GB RAM.
What solid components might I afford with those numbers in mind?

 

[w8lkinusa]

I hope I did not overwhelm everyone. I've been working overnight for over five years and have been transitioning to mornings. My work hours are still hectic during training.

Thanks for the proposed solutions so far. I will try to respond as soon as I can while I suffer through terrible allergies from daytime hours.

 

[w8lkinusa]

After a decent amount of consideration, I've decided to go with the GTX 1070 Ti and the Corsair SF600 Gold. I'll temporarily install Windows 7 for a quick test since Window 10 will have to wait; it'll be running a headless Ubuntu for a few more weeks.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[jojesa]

A Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-550FX 550W 80+ Gold is as good or even better, it cost less, has a longer warranty and it will be enough even for a system will more power requirements than yours.

 

[w8lkinusa]

A Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-550FX 550W 80+ Gold is as good or even better, it cost less, has a longer warranty and it will be enough even for a system will more power requirements than yours.

I moved on the purchase pretty quickly. Upon delivery this Saturday, I hope to have everything installed and tested by Sunday night. Unfortunately, work has me super busy this weekend, so I will not be testing very much.

By the way, I noticed that your Seasonic power supply unit (PSU) has a larger footprint than the Corsair SF600. Since I have a Micro ATX case, the smaller PSU offers greater airflow for the video card. I've never owned a 3-slot video card, so any extra breathing room would be good.

 

[volkgren]

The SF600 should work fine for your needs. It is a good quality unit.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=477

With it being a smaller SFX format it actually costs more than the larger ATX units. That, along with any lesser attributes in warranty, would be reasons to not recommend it when you can fit an ATX unit. But if you are okay with the price you paid then that is all that matters.

 

[w8lkinusa]

The SF600 should work fine for your needs. It is a good quality unit.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=477

With it being a smaller SFX format it actually costs more than the larger ATX units. That, along with any lesser attributes in warranty, would be reasons to not recommend it when you can fit an ATX unit. But if you are okay with the price you paid then that is all that matters.

Thanks for the article. It's strange that I did not spend much time researching the actual video card and power supply. Instead, I only relied on their track record (or should I say, my experience with their 850-watt 80+ and 450-watt 80+ Gold that I have used). Two different Antec power supply units fried two different systems; I was a rookie and did not know the root cause of the initial issue.

I notice that I had better odds for a quieter PC if I had purchased an ATX power supply instead. This SFX power supply seems to spin its fan at 30% load and upwards. This is something that I had not considered at all.

 

[w8lkinusa]

Both volkgren and serioussamik17 offered great advice.

The Corsair SFX 600-watt power supply unit (PSU) is just right for my needs though. At full load with the GTX 1070Ti video card, I will be around 80% PSU capacity. I doubt I'll ever reach full load even when gaming; something will bottleneck somewhere. The SFX PSU's dimensions are 25% smaller than my ATX 450-watt PSU in every way. This allows more airflow between PSU and video card within my microATX case.

An unactivated Windows 7 was installed for overclock testing. As suggested, I overclocked by 25% from 2.8GHz to 3.5GHz since 3.7GHz caused 4K Battlefield 3 (BF3) to crash after ~3 hours; a hard/cold reboot was needed. I spent ~12 straight hours playing BF3. At 1080p, I had 100% CPU and 60% GPU. At 1440p, I had 80% CPU and 80% GPU. At 4K, I had 70% CPU and 97% GPU. I'm sure the overall FSB and/or CPU were the bottleneck.

EDIT: I used the highest BF3 setting of HIGH the entire time! So much beauty!! Just wished the GTX 1080 Ti wasn't so expensive for a better 4K experience.

1440p via my TN 24-inch 2K 144Hz monitor was great. 4K via the IPS 27-inch 4K 60Hz seemed okay. I really just need to game more for a fair assessment between my two monitors. I'll need a better FPS overlay app for future comparison of monitors and gameplay [since FRAPS might have been inaccurate; I saw 60+ FPS for 4K]. I wish Dell had a better 4K monitor for my matching-ish pair last year.

Prime95 blend tests ran stable for 11 hours. Due to winter's 67°F ambient temperatures, CPU temperature only peaked at 54°C with case fans at 85% of the fan adjustment knob. I've enabled Turbo boost and started Prime95 blend tests again.

After this, I'll need to keep Ubuntu running 24/7 since I need access to my lab again. Eventually, an energy efficient and quieter Mac mini may be my primary machine with Windows/Mac dual boot. And my gaming/lab PC will only power on as needed.

That's all the time that I can afford to throw at this project for now. I need to get focused on learning lots of information for my recent work reassignment.

Once again, big thanks to volkgren and serioussamik17 as well as others who spent the time to help me make an informed decision.

 

[w8lkinusa]

I've decided to have some fun with the numbers. Since the stock 2.8GHz CPU is 80% of the OC'd 3.5GHz CPU, here is theoretical CPU-utilization had I not overclocked (OC'd).

I don't see any reason to play at 1080p unless I scale the 27'' 4K down by half, but utilization would be 125% of the stock CPU nonetheless. The GPU would still be 60%, but frames per second (FPS) might see a significant reduction. At 2K, CPU utilization would be 100%; the GPU should remain at 80% with slightly less FPS. At 4K, CPU utilization would be 87.5% and GPU utilization would remain at 97%.

It's very tempting to drop the CPU back to stock clocks, then reduce the voltage from 1.35 to 1.25 for cooler temperatures. I wish I did this long ago. I've already used the PC on and off for 7 years due to the work laptop. I wonder if I can stretch it for another 7 years and only overclock when the need arises.

 

[m30067]

All Phenom II CPU's are incapable of powering such a GPU to full usage, don't do this.

 

[w8lkinusa]

All Phenom II CPU's are incapable of powering such a GPU to full usage, don't do this.

m30067,

You've lost me. Are you referring to lowering the CPU voltage from 1.35 to 1.25? While this is my first successful attempt at overclocking any CPU beyond 10%, I am still pretty certain that a CPU does not power/drive a GPU.

If you're referring to GPU utilization rates and if you've read any of my recent posts, you would see that I've already achieved 97% GPU utilization rates when playing BF3 on Normal at 4K with 60+ FPS; the CPU utilization rate was only 70%. Therefore, I fail to see the point which you are making.

Please elaborate.

 

[m30067]

All Phenom II CPU's are incapable of powering such a GPU to full usage, don't do this.

m30067,

You've lost me. Are you referring to lowering the CPU voltage from 1.35 to 1.25? While this is my first successful attempt at overclocking any CPU beyond 10%, I am still pretty certain that a CPU does not power/drive a GPU.

If you're referring to GPU utilization rates and if you've read any of my recent posts, you would see that I've already achieved 97% GPU utilization rates when playing BF3 on Normal at 4K with 60+ FPS; the CPU utilization rate was only 70%. Therefore, I fail to see the point which you are making.

Please elaborate.

I see, when a CPU cannot push a GPU to it's full potential and make the GPU a bottleneck, the CPU is just not up to the standards expected from the user. This in some cases is not a huge problem, but it will be in many areas.

You clearly do not want this bottleneck but are in fact being passive with your stance, which is ok, but it will likely hold you back even further later and frustrate you.

I would simply focus right now on upgrading your platform & CPU according to your budget in order to prioritise your later experience.

 

[w8lkinusa]

All Phenom II CPU's are incapable of powering such a GPU to full usage, don't do this.

m30067,

You've lost me. Are you referring to lowering the CPU voltage from 1.35 to 1.25? While this is my first successful attempt at overclocking any CPU beyond 10%, I am still pretty certain that a CPU does not power/drive a GPU.

If you're referring to GPU utilization rates and if you've read any of my recent posts, you would see that I've already achieved 97% GPU utilization rates when playing BF3 on Normal at 4K with 60+ FPS; the CPU utilization rate was only 70%. Therefore, I fail to see the point which you are making.

Please elaborate.

I see, when a CPU cannot push a GPU to it's full potential and make the GPU a bottleneck, the CPU is just not up to the standards expected from the user. This in some cases is not a huge problem, but it will be in many areas.

You clearly do not want this bottleneck but are in fact being passive with your stance, which is ok, but it will likely hold you back even further later and frustrate you.

I would simply focus right now on upgrading your platform & CPU according to your budget in order to prioritise your later experience.

m30067,

I appreciate your stance on building a PC that will force the GPU to become the bottleneck. This would surely maximize the return on investment (ROI) of the more expensive component, the video card.

For the PC, my frustrations typically lie upon insufficient RAM, poor Hi-DPI windows-scaling, and OS limitations/restrictions in that order. I realize that the GTX 1070 Ti is a highly sought after video card for gaming enthusiasts in late 2017, but I decided to purchase correctly the first time.

The way I figured it; I could have purchased the GTX 1060 now for ~$170+tax, then upgrade to the GTX 1070 Ti or GTX 1080 in 3-4 years for $200+tax. The total would be ~$400 after taxes. Instead, I've just purchased the GTX 1070 Ti for $435 after taxes and can begin experiencing the joys of beautiful gaming at a mere $35 cost difference. This also opens the door to 4K gaming at my behest.

I really hope to use this PC for another 7 years before retiring it permanently as a Linux Lab server that would only be powered on as needed. By then, I could probably sell the video card for $50-100 or give it away to appreciative friends.

I'm not a big gamer, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the recent experience of BF3 at 1440p-144Hz with High settings. Had I owned this combination when I was a kid, I just might have jumped onto the Gamer Bandwagon. As it were, I can hardly spare free time nowadays.

I appreciate your input and explanation of your stance. This has been a great learning experience for me.