Question Constant and Severe Packet Loss ?

[Snazzymacguy]

Hi all - let's get to it,

Working from home, online gaming, VoIP, etc. have all been a struggle for the past few months. The past couple months have been particularly terrible; so I decided to investigate.

Two weeks ago I ran a few ping tests then decided to phone the ISP. My contract had already been far too expensive, so I negotiated a Gig1 package with them - this included booking a 'Tech' to visit the property to check all my connections. The Tech tested the Hub 4, said it was problematic, replaced it with the newest Hub 5, tested the coax cable and was on his way.

The network setup is FTTC - coax from street to home, into the Hub 5 (Router/Modem combo = Gateway I believe) - Ethernet goes directly from the Hub to my PC.

Now let's take a look at the damage:

1. Broadband Quality Monitor Graph LIVE - (The three very large spikes were born from testing a fresh coax cable).

2. Tracert

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 9 ms 8 ms 6 ms 10.112.33.41
3 12 ms 8 ms 10 ms host-80-1-226.209.not-set-yet.virginmedia.net.226.1.80.in-addr.arpa [80.1.226.209]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 11 ms 9 ms 11 ms eislou2-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.59.130]
6 11 ms 11 ms 17 ms host-213-104-85.166.not-set-yet.virginmedia.net.85.104.213.in-addr.arpa [213.104.85.166]
7 17 ms 17 ms 15 ms 216.239.40.71
8 18 ms 17 ms 19 ms 172.253.65.211
9 15 ms 11 ms 11 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

3. PathPing

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 DESKTOP-5.cable.virginm.net [192.168.0.xxx]
1 192.168.0.1
2 10.112.33.41
3 host-80-1-226.209.not-set-yet.virginmedia.net.226.1.80.in-addr.arpa [80.1.226.209]
4 * * *
Computing statistics for 75 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 DESKTOP-5.cable.virginm.net [192.168.0.xxx]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 10.112.33.41
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 9ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% host-80-1-226.209.not-set-yet.virginmedia.net.226.1.80.in-addr.arpa [80.1.226.209]

Trace complete.

4. PingPlotter (8.8.8.8)

https://share.pingplotter.com/E6PkNA3uD7g

My understanding is that, since Hop 1 is clean, this is not an issue with my equipment. Indeed, the Router/Modem was replaced and I even went to the liberty of trying a new (VM supplied) coax cable. Hop 2 is where the issue begins, obviously causing lost packets to snowball to the destination. Pinging only to the second Hop always returns 100% packet loss. I've raised this issue on VM's forums and have also lodged a formal complaint. No area issues at present (and this has been occurring for months anyway). I have no issues when using a 5G hotspot to the PC. I tried out a VPN and the issue persisted, but that was to be expected. My up/downstream speeds are perfect and the Hub's levels are all within VM's limits. I should add that I had also tested the Hub in Modem mode with a TP-Link router and - you guessed it - same issue.

I have no clue how to better interpret these results to diagnose the root issue, so all help is appreciated!

 

[bill001g]

So tracert and pathping do not show any problem. The pingplotter though does show a clear issue in hop2.

This represent the connection between your house and the ISP. It generally is some kind of cabling issue outside your house.
You can check any of the coax cable on or in your house to see if they look tight and don't appear to have dirt or water in them.

If there is a lot of internal wiring inside your house with splitters etc you could try to place the modem as close to where the cable comes into the house as possible eliminating the extra stuff in the house.

It is not likely this but you know the ISP will attempt to blame it.

It is unfortunate that the ISP prevent you from ping their first router. You have pretty much done what I would have recommended. Many times you see issues with the signal levels when there is a cable problem. It all depends on where the FTTC box is. In many cases they just call it that but the so called curb is down the street from your house and you share the coax cable between your house and the box just like any other cable company. All cable companies convert to fiber at some point.

Your big issue is this problem might be intermittent. If it doesn't happen when the ISP is testing they will say all is good.
They should be able to see this problem. Can you ping your actual public IP from the internet. Some routers block this ability.
Even without it turned on the ISP has other tool they run that will do something very similar to a ping of the modem.

Not sure what I can recommend that you have not already pretty much tried. It is a matter of getting the ISP to fix this. In some cases it is worth even paying them to come out just to get rid of the problem. In most cases if the ISP finds the problem is in their equipment they do not charge you.

 

[Snazzymacguy]

So tracert and pathping do not show any problem. The pingplotter though does show a clear issue in hop2.

This represent the connection between your house and the ISP. It generally is some kind of cabling issue outside your house.
You can check any of the coax cable on or in your house to see if they look tight and don't appear to have dirt or water in them.

If there is a lot of internal wiring inside your house with splitters etc you could try to place the modem as close to where the cable comes into the house as possible eliminating the extra stuff in the house.

It is not likely this but you know the ISP will attempt to blame it.

It is unfortunate that the ISP prevent you from ping their first router. You have pretty much done what I would have recommended. Many times you see issues with the signal levels when there is a cable problem. It all depends on where the FTTC box is. In many cases they just call it that but the so called curb is down the street from your house and you share the coax cable between your house and the box just like any other cable company. All cable companies convert to fiber at some point.

Your big issue is this problem might be intermittent. If it doesn't happen when the ISP is testing they will say all is good.
They should be able to see this problem. Can you ping your actual public IP from the internet. Some routers block this ability.
Even without it turned on the ISP has other tool they run that will do something very similar to a ping of the modem.

Not sure what I can recommend that you have not already pretty much tried. It is a matter of getting the ISP to fix this. In some cases it is worth even paying them to come out just to get rid of the problem. In most cases if the ISP finds the problem is in their equipment they do not charge you.

Thank you bill - I have read some of your contributions elsewhere so am quite pleased that you've made one here!

I suppose it is exactly what I had initially feared: cable running from my house to their green cabinet many metres away on the side of the street. The fact that the Tech plugged in his 'special' device to test the connections was really quite useless because this issue obviously only shows in practice.

To ping my IP from the internet, should I use a tool like https://dnschecker.org/ping-ipv4.php ? Having done so a few times, it returns 0% loss.

I will be getting on the phone with them to book a Tech asap in any event and will share developments I'm able to gather on here. Is there a specific thing I should be asking the ISP to check?

 

[bill001g]

They will follow their script and run whatever tools they do. I had one that did not know what a ping command was.

You need to find a tool that you can show loss and the ISP will somewhat understand. Pingplotter results are well beyond most level 1 techs. It is unfortunate that you do not see loss using a ping tool from the internet.

Note be sure you actually have a public IP or it doesn't matter. When I run on vpn those type of tools will test to the shared addresses which would be similar to CGNAT. You would see the public IP in your router wan settings.

Generally most level 1 tech do know what the ping command is and can key it in but they also get paid to close calls out as quick as possible so it really needs to show the problem. Those problems that only happen when the ISP is closed are the worst.

 

[Snazzymacguy]

They will follow their script and run whatever tools they do. I had one that did not know what a ping command was.

You need to find a tool that you can show loss and the ISP will somewhat understand. Pingplotter results are well beyond most level 1 techs. It is unfortunate that you do not see loss using a ping tool from the internet.

Note be sure you actually have a public IP or it doesn't matter. When I run on vpn those type of tools will test to the shared addresses which would be similar to CGNAT. You would see the public IP in your router wan settings.

Generally most level 1 tech do know what the ping command is and can key it in but they also get paid to close calls out as quick as possible so it really needs to show the problem. Those problems that only happen when the ISP is closed are the worst.

I had VM's support number baffled with the mention of the phrase 'packet loss'. I think the Tech knew but, as you said, they are likely paid per visit and it makes business sense to close as quickly as possible.

I just called up the same Tech who had visited a few days ago and explained that the issue was persisting. I said I have evidence, he asked what, to which I replied a PingPlotter graph showing loss on nothing short of the second hop. That was all he needed to hear and he has now instructed me to call up tomorrow morning to schedule his visit to test/replace the external cable running to the cabinet. This is great news, and the even better news is that this Tech knows what PingPlotter is! I've been told it will be a full-day job.

I wonder how the external cabling is even tested? Is a port used for the device, or would the cable be cut, then tested before being rejoined? I'd be very surprised if this replacement takes place because my knowledge is that this cable supplies me and no one else, therefore of significant cost to the provider. I could be wrong though?