Question Cooling fan concerns with iBuyPower PC ?

[Toolies]

I have a 1-year old iBuyPower PC and have recently started hearing a slight grinding sound from the tower. I though maybe there was some dust in the unit or something else affecting the cooling fans. After opening it up and looking everything is clean. I also noticed in the MSi Dragon Center, it is showing the RPMs for the CPU fan (~4300-4400) and RPMs for SYS fan 6 (1400 RPM) but nothing for any other fan. The Pump fan and other 5 Sys fans read 0 RPM. I have been experiencing times when the CPU is running between 45-55 deg. C and other times it jumps up to 100 deg. C.

I took the side panel off the tower and visually checked the fans. All fans looked to be running with power on. This included three fans in the front panel, one fan on the bottom of the tower, the fan on the back of the tower, and the fan on the back of the "radiator" in the front. Based on the Dragon Center info I am guessing the CPU fan is running as well.

I am concerned with the lack of RPMs being reported in the Dragon Center monitoring and the possibility of the unit overheating or not being cooled properly. I have done some research and the over riding opinion seems to be that the iBuyPower units often require a cooling pump/fan replacement.

Any assistance of advice would be greatly appreciated. If a replacement is recommended, I have never done one and have no clue what would be an appropriate replacement that would work with this system.

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900K CPU @ 3.70GHz 3.70 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Windows Home 10

iBUYPOWER - Gaming Desktop - Intel i9-10900K - 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super 8GB - 1TB SSD
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypo...070-super-8gb-1tb-ssd/6419490.p?skuId=6419490

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

That listing for the prebuilt doesn't help narrow down the makers of the parts apart from the processor. Could you parse images of your build? That would help us identify the AIO used in your build. Can you get into BIOS and remain there indefinitely? Might want to take note of your temps for your platform as well as the BIOS version for the motherboard.

 

[Toolies]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

That listing for the prebuilt doesn't help narrow down the makers of the parts apart from the processor. Could you parse images of your build? That would help us identify the AIO used in your build. Can you get into BIOS and remain there indefinitely? Might want to take note of your temps for your platform as well as the BIOS version for the motherboard.

Thank you for the response. I apologize for the lack of info. I will get more of the specifics and post the info. I will also try and get some internal pics of the PC as well. I am familiar enough in the BIOS to be poking around. Is there something specific I should look for? I can see many of the internal temps in the Dragon Center monitoring component. I am not sure how accurate these would be overall.

Thanks again.

 

[Paperdoc]

I can understand why you'd be puzzled with a system that shows the speed of only one case fan when you have many more. I can explain.

All of this depends on WHERE your fans are plugged in. A mobo can only tell you the speed of a fan if it is plugged into a mobo header so it can send its speed signal to that header. In SOME systems the fans are powered from a different source so the mobo knows nothing about them.

Secondly, with many case fans in use it is common to connect most of them to a single FAN HUB that provides power to them all AND sends to each fan the speed control signal from ONE mobo header. So only ONE SYS_FAN header is used for a single cable from it to a Fan Hub. Now, any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from only ONE fan. More than one fan speed signal sent to a header causes enormous mixed signals that create confusion and very wrong readings of fan speed. So any Splitter or Hub used to connect several fans to a single header will send back to that header the speed of only ONE of the fans connected. The speed signals of all the other fans connected to that Hub will be ignored completely, and you will never "see" them anywhere. That may be the arrangement of case ventilation fans in your system. That would explain why the BIOS can show the speed of only one fan, even though there are several more operating.

Just a couple other general pieces of info - we cannot be sure if these do apply to your situation because we don't know exactly what hardware you have.
(a) You appear to have a pump mounted on the CPU chip connected by hoses to a radiator in the front. In MANY such systems the control cable from the pump is plugged into the CPU_FAN header, and it is the speed of that PUMP that is "read" by that header and shown to you. Many such pumps operate at speeds over 3000 RPM, although not many FANS operate that fast. Then the FAN on the rad is powered a different way, often from a port or cable from the Pump unit. Since that fan is NOT connected to a mobo fan header, the BIOS cannot show you its speed.
(b) There are some current and recent CPU chips that will show a very brief high temperature when the workload changes suddenly, and then the temp drops back. These high-temp surges may last only a few seconds - 10 to 30 at the most. If that is what you arre seeing , it MAY be perfectly normal.

 

[Toolies]

I can understand why you'd be puzzled with a system that shows the speed of only one case fan when you have many more. I can explain.

All of this depends on WHERE your fans are plugged in. A mobo can only tell you the speed of a fan if it is plugged into a mobo header so it can send its speed signal to that header. In SOME systems the fans are powered from a different source so the mobo knows nothing about them.

Secondly, with many case fans in use it is common to connect most of them to a single FAN HUB that provides power to them all AND sends to each fan the speed control signal from ONE mobo header. So only ONE SYS_FAN header is used for a single cable from it to a Fan Hub. Now, any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from only ONE fan. More than one fan speed signal sent to a header causes enormous mixed signals that create confusion and very wrong readings of fan speed. So any Splitter or Hub used to connect several fans to a single header will send back to that header the speed of only ONE of the fans connected. The speed signals of all the other fans connected to that Hub will be ignored completely, and you will never "see" them anywhere. That may be the arrangement of case ventilation fans in your system. That would explain why the BIOS can show the speed of only one fan, even though there are several more operating.

Just a couple other general pieces of info - we cannot be sure if these do apply to your situation because we don't know exactly what hardware you have.
(a) You appear to have a pump mounted on the CPU chip connected by hoses to a radiator in the front. In MANY such systems the control cable from the pump is plugged into the CPU_FAN header, and it is the speed of that PUMP that is "read" by that header and shown to you. Many such pumps operate at speeds over 3000 RPM, although not many FANS operate that fast. Then the FAN on the rad is powered a different way, often from a port or cable from the Pump unit. Since that fan is NOT connected to a mobo fan header, the BIOS cannot show you its speed.
(b) There are some current and recent CPU chips that will show a very brief high temperature when the workload changes suddenly, and then the temp drops back. These high-temp surges may last only a few seconds - 10 to 30 at the most. If that is what you arre seeing , it MAY be perfectly normal.

Thanks again for the reply and all of the information. I have not had an opportunity to open the tower up and take a look at the connections to try and better understand the set-up I have. I will also try and add some photos.

Your description of the pump and radiator set-up above seems accurate based on my observation from when I opened the tower previously. My PC does experience random fluctuations in the CPU temp and CPU fan usage. I can have the Dragon Center monitoring open and the PC temp is around 45 deg. C and the fan is at 60%. Without any change in workload, often when nothing is being done and no programs are open, the CPU temp will jump to 95 deg. C and the fan jumps to 90% plus. Other times it will settle at the 50 deg. C range with 60% fan and seem stable. The CPU socket temp seems to seem stable most of the time at 55-60 deg. C. I did experience one PC shut down and when I re-booted I had a temperature warning. I tired to insert a screen cap of the monitored temps and voltages but am unsure how to to do. I am usually a copy and paste guy.... or I use Snip & Sketch.

What specific hardware parameters would be helpful? I apologize for my lack of knowledge. I am learning as I go.

 

[Paperdoc]

Your more extensive last post suggests to me another possibility. You have an AIO system (All-In-One) for CPU cooling. That consists of a Pump unit mounted on the CPU chip (NO fan there) that circulates water from there to the Radiator on the front and back. At the rad, a FAN blows air though it to cool the water, and thereby the CPU chip. You describe occasional "grinding" sounds, and occasional surges of measured CPU temperature and, at the same time, speed of a fan (the rad fan, possibly). You have not reported this, but MAYBE those sounds and the instances of high temp and fan speed come at the same time. Check for that if you can.

One thing that can happen with AIO systems, especially after a couple years or more, is that they can lose some of the liquid filling their system, resulting in air bubbles that may stick at one location OR may circulate around intermittently. IF enough air bubbles accumulate IN the pump, that can cause an odd noise called cavitation as the air is beaten by the pump vanes. More importantly, this can cause the pumping action to cease until the air is pushed out of the pump and around the circulation loop. So while the cavitation happens there is NO movement of liquid to remove CPU heat. That MAY be what you are experiencing.

An AIO system is supplied filled and sealed, and is not supposed to lose its fluid charge. However, in real life it does, but NOT within one year! It is very difficult for a user to repair this issue, even with instructions from the system maker. I would consider such a failure in one year to be a defect that OUGHT to be covered by a warranty. But I don't know what is covered for your system.

 

[Karadjgne]

1. Get rid of msi Dragon Center. By default it bumps up voltages and cpu multiplier settings in an attempt to get you maximum performance, but at the cost of seriously high temps. It needs to be fully uninstalled, not just the windows Uninstaller. Use Coretemp to monitor temps, can use HWInfo to see all relevant data that's actually accurate.

2. Your reported speeds will be dependent on how the pc is setup. The 3 fans in front will be on a splitter to a single header, the pump should be on cpu_fan header and be @ 2000-4000rpm. The radiator fan will be on a sys_fan header. Personally I prefer to swap those 2, set the sys_fan header to always 100% for the pump and use the cpu to monitor/control the rad fan speeds by cpu_fan header. Assuming a standard 120mm Corsair H60 type aio. If you have a stepped up 240mm rad which is Sata powered, the fans normally go to the pump, and a USB will goto the motherboard and the cpu controls nothing, it's all software setup.

Any other fans will be on other headers.

 

[Paperdoc]

Karadjne's post illustrates an important point. EVERY AIO system is different. By design they operate a little differently, use different control strategies and connections, and have necessarily different installation requirements. OP has not been able to tell us exactly what AIO system is in the computer with problems, OR exactly how the components are connected. So we can't really give advice focused on what IS in that system.

 

[Karadjgne]

It's ibuypower. 99% chance it has an asetek powered pump on a H55/H60 clone, 120mm fan. That's standard cooling nowadays because it ships easily with little care needed for tower air cooling motherboard/cpu damage, it's 'liquid cooling' therefore much better than air cooling, and is often included in combo sales forced by gpu acquisition. Ibuypower is slapping a 120mm on new i7's and even as much as an i9 9900k/i9 10900k. Benefit to those small aios is they can be used in every case ibuypower has, air towers being height restricted.

It's not only marketed as much better option than the miserable Intel stock coolers, many Intels don't have stock cooling and it gets rid of surplus stuff ibuypower didn't want, but had to take in order to get the gpus. And they get to charge a premium upgrade for it.

 

[Toolies]

Thank you all for the information. This is a high learning curve for me but I am slowly moving forward. As far as the warranty I am unfortunately 2 months past the 1-year....as it typically goes when you have problems with things.

Secondly, the question about the grinding sound from an earlier post: It is a low sound like a grinding fan. It is not loud but loud enough you can here if there is no other ambient noise. It is continuous when the PC is on. The speed or loudness does not fluctuate. It is steady. When the PC is powered down or goes to sleep the sound stops. There doesn't seem to be any linear connection between the CPU temp/fan speed/ and the noise.

Are there any side effects of removing the Dragon Center software? Where, other than the standard WIndows remove program, should I go to make sure unistall is complete. I like the visual set-up of the software (visual temps/voltages/fan RPM,etc) but wondered if there were better alternatives.

Here are some photos of the internal set-up. I am unsure what hardware parameters may be helpful to list here. Any suggestions?

 

[Toolies]

Here is a little more info. It seems now that the temps are staying higher (up near 100 deg C) even when the PC is idle and no programs open. These pics are taken when there was no PC activity (other than background). I am starting to get concerned. As far at the cooling set-up...is this something I can replace/upgrade?

Any further assistance is greatly appreciated. (I added some internal PC pics in previous post)

 

[Toolies]

Sorry to keep spamming this post.

I did a little more digging and after some testing I have identified where the noise seems to be coming from. When all fans were tested the noise did not change or stop. All fans seemed to be working fine with no noise. With all fans off the rattling noise seems to be coming from the radiator? behind the front tower fans. Where the two tubes are attached that go to the CPU. The rattling is constant from that piece. Hope that helps a little more.

 

[Toolies]

So I haven't seen any other response but I really appreciate all the feedback I received concerning the cooling issue I am experiencing.

Just to update the issue:

I broke down and replaced the stock AIO cooling unit in the ibuypower PC with a Cooler Master -Master Liquid ML120L V2 RGB. The exchange wasn't as tough as I expected and went smooth with no issues. My core temps are down from upper 80's/lower 90's to the mid 40's on the Core Temp software. The grinding noise is gone as well.

It was interesting that the original cooling system had a larger radiator than the Cooler Master. Both had one radiator fan. I did email ibuypower concerning the issue and did receive an email after the switch telling me I had a 240mm unit and then gave me an Amazon link to replacements. That was the email.

Interesting they said it was a 240 mm when a second fan would be almost touching the graphics card.

Anyway...problem seems to be resolved. Thanks again!

 

[Paperdoc]

Actually, I noticed that oddity in your photos - you had a 240 mm rad in the front, but only one 120 mm fan installed on it. Obviously that was to avoid interfering with the graphics card. Really an odd setup! I thought immediately of Karadjne's comments on how iBuyPower uses the same parts for many units to keep inventory simple and per-parts costs lower.

 

[Phaaze88]

@Toolies
Was there a black cube of sorts on the radiator? Perhaps in the area the single fan covered?

 

[Toolies]

Not that I noticed. Just the fan attached to the radiator and the two tubes to the CPU cooler. Except for the radiator size and tubing size there were no differences between the original and the replacement (I guess the brand as well).

 

[Phaaze88]

I see. I was curious if the cooler IBP used was one like this:

Spoiler

That cube you can see in the pic is where the pump is, not in the cpu block with many other models. From what I've seen, this design has been nothing but trouble for users.
Cpu thermal warnings right at POST, or sitting on the desktop doing nothing. Pump supposedly confirmed running, but temperatures continue to increase. Dying within a year...

On your 4th post, picture #2, I can see what appears to be a corner of said black cube between 2 of the fan blades.
It led me to suspect the Pump-In-Radiator design was the problem.

 

[Toolies]

Sorry Phaaze88 - I was mistaken. The radiator did have the same square located in the same spot. back side of the square had the three pin plug in cable attached to it. I am not sure if this was the issue or not. After removing the old cooling system, I open the plate on the CPU cooler and it was full of build-up - gross looking white gunck plugging up the whole end at the CPU.

New one seems to be working very well.

 

[Phaaze88]

Yep, that's a Pump-In-Radiator model alright.
It was near the highest point of the loop - that was going to become a problem sooner or later. Those models are very limited in where they can be mounted.


That gunk though - perhaps traces of corrosion, or whoever IBP got the cooler from has water quality problems.
AIOs are premixed with water, glycol, corrosion inhibitors and biocides. The chemicals don't last forever though.

New one seems to be working very well.

Huzzah!

 

[stelbin]

I have a very similar problem to what Toolies has laid out. I also have an iBuypower desktop Model: BB986 SKU: 6418153. Similar fan noise issue that seems to be coming from the front (where the 3 fans are). My system is only a year old, so it's possible that it's also a water cooler issue, but seems unlikely for the short duration.

I do hear this sound on a regular basis, even with minimal usage of apps. I tried going into the BIOS (has the MSI firmware/software), but the fan configurations are rather odd and confusing. You are allowed to drag the fan speed arc to match the temperature curve, but it didn't have much affect. I tried using the smart fan option, but it only had minimal results.

I do have the option to toggle between PWM and DC power, but when I tried that on one fan, the system started to overheat and I got a CPU heat alert fairly quickly.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.