Cooling issues

G

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

getting a new system

2600+ sempron
512 DDR400
9600 pro 128mb
gigabyte mobo
20GB 5200
15GB 5200
dvd
cdrw
raidmax case

I know my systems not the hottest thing hot there, but i like to be over
cautious. My cpu temp on my old system(1ghz celeron, 256mb)is 51c and the
case temp is 30. just under a average/low load, i've got three fans (not
including the psu and cpu fans), should i consider a
1)HDD cooler(specifically on the drive where i'm gonna store the games)
2)a couple more case fans
3)After market ram heatsinks

I'm not intenting on over clocking the cpu, but i do plan to OC the gfx card
from 450/350 to 500/375.

Your thoughts please.
 
G

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Veritech wrote:

> getting a new system
>
> 2600+ sempron
> 512 DDR400
> 9600 pro 128mb
> gigabyte mobo
> 20GB 5200
> 15GB 5200
> dvd
> cdrw
> raidmax case
>
> I know my systems not the hottest thing hot there, but i like to be over
> cautious. My cpu temp on my old system(1ghz celeron, 256mb)is 51c and the
> case temp is 30. just under a average/low load, i've got three fans (not
> including the psu and cpu fans), should i consider a
> 1)HDD cooler(specifically on the drive where i'm gonna store the games)
> 2)a couple more case fans
> 3)After market ram heatsinks

What is your case make/model? What HSF combo are you using?

I have a system based on a Gigabyte GA-8IRXP with a 2.6 GHz P4, OC´d to 3.0
GHz. I run an AVC Sunflower aftermarket HSF. I also have 2 front case fans
with one pointing right at my HDD, 2 rear case fans, and one on the side
panel aimed squarely at my GPU - all Antec 80mm fans. My case is an Antec
SX1040. I have no ram heatsinks. I have no active cooling on my chipset,
though my GPU (GeForce Ti4600) has its own fan. I run about 42-43 degrees
centigrade at idle. Now, AMD processors will run hotter, typically, than
the pre-Prescott P4´s.

The noise is high for a computer, but nothing that´s annoying to me.

> I'm not intenting on over clocking the cpu, but i do plan to OC the gfx
> card from 450/350 to 500/375.

You should consider OC´ing the CPU, too, as there are big gains to be had.
 
G

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Its a raidmax 822 cobra
its got space for 4 80mm fans upfront,and its already got one on the
side(Puller) two temperature controled ones on the back(pusher i think) and
two on the psu both pusher.

The gfx overlock is a software based one, and "easier" for an overclocking
novice like myself.
And as i haven't ever overclocked a system before i don't want to break my
new rig just after i get it, lol.
plus i can afford to replace any parts that i may break in quest for speed.

Might try and overlock my old rig, but not sure yet.
"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:gUEFd.9518$7k5.8033@fe37.usenetserver.com...
> Veritech wrote:
>
>> getting a new system
>>
>> 2600+ sempron
>> 512 DDR400
>> 9600 pro 128mb
>> gigabyte mobo
>> 20GB 5200
>> 15GB 5200
>> dvd
>> cdrw
>> raidmax case
>>
>> I know my systems not the hottest thing hot there, but i like to be over
>> cautious. My cpu temp on my old system(1ghz celeron, 256mb)is 51c and the
>> case temp is 30. just under a average/low load, i've got three fans (not
>> including the psu and cpu fans), should i consider a
>> 1)HDD cooler(specifically on the drive where i'm gonna store the games)
>> 2)a couple more case fans
>> 3)After market ram heatsinks
>
> What is your case make/model? What HSF combo are you using?
>
> I have a system based on a Gigabyte GA-8IRXP with a 2.6 GHz P4, OC´d to
> 3.0
> GHz. I run an AVC Sunflower aftermarket HSF. I also have 2 front case fans
> with one pointing right at my HDD, 2 rear case fans, and one on the side
> panel aimed squarely at my GPU - all Antec 80mm fans. My case is an Antec
> SX1040. I have no ram heatsinks. I have no active cooling on my chipset,
> though my GPU (GeForce Ti4600) has its own fan. I run about 42-43 degrees
> centigrade at idle. Now, AMD processors will run hotter, typically, than
> the pre-Prescott P4´s.
>
> The noise is high for a computer, but nothing that´s annoying to me.
>
>> I'm not intenting on over clocking the cpu, but i do plan to OC the gfx
>> card from 450/350 to 500/375.
>
> You should consider OC´ing the CPU, too, as there are big gains to be had.
>
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Veritech wrote:

> Its a raidmax 822 cobra
> its got space for 4 80mm fans upfront,and its already got one on the
> side(Puller) two temperature controled ones on the back(pusher i think)
> and two on the psu both pusher.

Either I´m confused, or you have your fans blowing wrong here. The front
fans and the one on the side should be blowing INTO the case, whereas the
rear and top fans should blow out of the case. Is this the way you have
them configured?

> The gfx overlock is  a software based one, and "easier" for an
> overclocking novice like myself.

What board are you running. I know that MSI and Gigabyte have applications
that let you overclock from a software utility from within Windows. Also,
overclocking isn´t hard, thought it may be scary for a complete beginner.
Look around on the internet and you should find plenty of articles about
it. Basically, you want to overclock in steps until your computer ceases to
run stable, then back it off until it does run stable. You should use
something that really stresses the system, but also run your usual software
and see if they interact poorly with the overclock.

I ran into a problem where the system ran perfectly overclocked where I had
it, 3.2 GHZ (vs. 2.6 stock) except my HP PhotoSmart software. Games,
sythetic benchmarks, etc. all ran without hassle. Backing it off to 3.0 GHz
fixed it, and that´s where I have it.

> And as i haven't ever overclocked a system before i don't want to break my
> new rig just after i get it, lol.
> plus i can afford to replace any parts that i may break in quest for
> speed.

You won´t break it, but you may have to reset the CMOS to return to default
BIOS settings. Do it in steps and you won´t even get that far. Once you get
an overclock where the system either hangs or reboots itself, or some
software sits there and does nothing, you´ll know to back it off.

> Might try and overlock my old rig, but not sure yet.

Unless it´s an AMD, or a really old Intel system, you can´t overclock a
factory built computer. I assume you already knew this, but you´d be
surprised at how many people think they can overclock their Dell system.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:49:05 GMT, "Veritech"
<jonathan.dalrymple@hotmail.com> wrote:

>getting a new system
>
>2600+ sempron
>512 DDR400
>9600 pro 128mb
>gigabyte mobo
>20GB 5200
>15GB 5200
>dvd
>cdrw
>raidmax case
>
>I know my systems not the hottest thing hot there, but i like to be over
>cautious. My cpu temp on my old system(1ghz celeron, 256mb)is 51c and the
>case temp is 30. just under a average/low load, i've got three fans (not
>including the psu and cpu fans), should i consider a
>1)HDD cooler(specifically on the drive where i'm gonna store the games)
>2)a couple more case fans
>3)After market ram heatsinks
>
>I'm not intenting on over clocking the cpu, but i do plan to OC the gfx card
>from 450/350 to 500/375.
>
>Your thoughts please.

The power supply is overrated junk... watch it carefully.

Overall the case is very bad for airflow, what poor attempts
it makes are counterproductive.

For benefit of other readers I post a review with a few
pics,
http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews/raidmaxcobra/

Your case has fan mounts in the mostly-obstructed,
stamped-out-metal style. That produces noise, causes dust
buildup that clogs the holes, and severely limits airflow.
Further their idea of trying to squeeze 4 fan mounts on the
front is a poor one, the case just isn't sturdy enough to
cut them all out, instead they've have been as well off
putting just two mounts in the center but all the intake
holes (open area) concentrated on those two.

Rear exahust is a similar problem, AND if the case came with
the pictured fans, they may be a maintenance issue due to
poor sleeve bearings... I'd suggest lubing them every 12
months or so.

Ideally you would cut out a 120mm hole on the front, bottom
center, and mount a few low RPM fan there. The remaing
holes on the front being covered with (HVAC) Aluminum tape,
preferribly on the outside wall, just in case the adhesive
doesn't stick well then you wouldn't have the electrically
conductive aluminum loose in the chassis.

The rear found mounts also need cut out, at least one of
them but preferribly both. Again the quality of the case is
an issue, if you cut too close to the left side it may
introduce low structural stability. Because of this I
suggest horizontally cutting a 1" "flap" for the left side
(looking into case) and bending that flap backwards to
provide more support. It won't look pretty but it makes the
most out of the case. You might be able to just cut a
standard hole if you were not moving the case around much
and being more carefull if/when it is moved.

If your case has a PSU similar to the one pictured, it's
particularly beneficial to cut out the top rear fan hole, as
the motherboard and CPU will have to deal with a hot zone
there otherwise, since the PSU has no bottom air intake. If
the PSU does have bottom intake, the lower rear fan might
aid more in keeping the back of the video card cool but it's
splitting hairs, ideally both fan mounts would be enlarged
as much as possible.

In particular I would advise against enlarging the back
without any changes to the front, as that will decrease
airflow through the power supply. At the very least it
would be good to enlarge the front intake, but I'd go ahead
and put a fan in front, at worst it can run near inaudibly
at around 6V and help cool the HDDs. Same goes for a pair
of 80 fans, if you happened to have a pair and were trying
to minimize the additional cost, but they should be mounted
in the center, not according to pre-stamped patterns.

As for o'c of video card, if the case has the side fan mount
low enough to blow some of the air under the video card
(hard to tell from the pic and it depends on the
motherboard's AGP slot placement too), then it should be ok.
It does look a little too high though, like they decided to
center it blowing on nothing in particular instead of a more
stategic placement. You'll just have to try it and see...
often the video card o'c depends more on a fair heatsink
than anything else though it might help to keep the adjacent
PCI slot case-bracket cover off to allow some passive
airflow across the face of the card.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Start with exhaust fans:
o PSU exhaust fan
o CPU exhaust fan ideally behind the CPU
o Block off any other exhaust ports

Then measure your temperatures under load:
o CPU temperature
---- CPU cooler uses *case-ambient* to cool itself
o Case temperature
---- case-ambient should be below 32oC ideally for Intel CPU coolers
-------- cooler fan intake @ 32oC = low speed, @ 38oC = high speed
---- AMD processors similarly benefit from low case temps
-------- the Sempron is a great value CPU
o HD temperature
---- this is a good check for your case temperature
---- and also whether direct HD cooling by an intake fan would help
---- HD specs are at the makers website, stay well within them
---- HD life does benefit from being nearer 40oC than 50oC
---- most laptop designs aim for a nominal 43-45oC idle temp

If your HD is hot, or high speed, or multiple drives:
o Reduce case Airflow Resistance -- change punched case grills to round-wire
---- case-grills = 45-55% airflow resistance, round-wire = 11-9% resistance
o Add an Intake Fan -- directly cooling the drive
---- HDs dissipate little wattage - 25W, easily cooled by <10cfm

If your Case Temp is too high:
o Reduce case Airflow Resistance -- again, change the grills
---- both on intake & exhaust
o Add an Exhaust Fan -- remove air faster than the CPU cooler etc heats it
---- a CPU cooler will recirculated heated air until that air is exhausted
---- you need to exhaust the air to stop it being recirculated
---- which will reduce CPU-temps re lower intake temp it sees

Change one variable at a time, don't throw fans in qty at the solution.
Then verify after the change.

If the build is new, worth using round-wire grills now versus having to
pull a case completely apart to cut out the old grills (holesaw, jigsaw,
hole punch, auto sheet-metal knibber tool, aviation tinsnips etc).
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:JGUFd.104$Sq3.53@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...

<snip>
..
>
> If the build is new, worth using round-wire grills now versus having to
> pull a case completely apart to cut out the old grills (holesaw, jigsaw,
> hole punch, auto sheet-metal knibber tool, aviation tinsnips etc).
> --
> Dorothy Bradbury
> www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans
>
>

I'm planning a new build. I'm mechanically unskilled, so case mods are not
practical for me. Is there a case that comes with round wire grills?

Are there cases that are highly regarded for having low airflow resistance
without requiring case mods?

Side note: While doing a Google search I found a review on SilentPCReview of
the Yeong Yang Mars yy-5603 case. This case was noted for having a
"waveguide fan grill" with high "free area ratio" (thereby having low
airflow resistance). However, the review criticized the sideways placement
of the HDD cages. The review stated that the sideways placement negated the
value of the good airflow.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> Side note: While doing a Google search I found a review on SilentPCReview of
> the Yeong Yang Mars yy-5603 case. This case was noted for having a
> "waveguide fan grill" with high "free area ratio" (thereby having low
> airflow resistance). However, the review criticized the sideways placement
> of the HDD cages. The review stated that the sideways placement negated the
> value of the good airflow.

It depends on the design of the HDD cage:
o HDs ideally need through-airflow around the drives
---- it need not be much airflow
o Sideways HDD cage placement is fine
---- as long as the cage doesn't directly obstruct the airflow

So "open faced" matters more than actual orientation.

The future 2.5" RAID array cages use sideways mounting:
o Aim being that 4x 2.5" drives fitted sideways fit in 1x 3.5" space
o What matters is maintaining airflow over the actual drives

Airflow is in at the front-bottom and out at the rear-top:
o The case grills present the most cited airflow resistance
o The intake cutout is as important re lowest-common-denominator

For example - yes, you may have 1-2-3 exhaust fans & even an intake
fan, however all must breathe through the case intake itself. Some use
a small slot on the front bottom of the plastic fascia, others more open.

Overall usability of the case is important - re suiting your needs.
--
Dorothy Bradbury