News Core i9-13900K Creeps Behind Ryzen 9 7950X In Blender Benchmarks

[alceryes]

...They should have tested all at the same speeds, or not at all. This is bulls.

Exactly what I was saying with Intel's 13900k announcement and accompanying slide deck. Totally misleading.

 

[alceryes]

FYI, Hardware Unboxed's review of the 13900K really lays bare its insane power draw and thermal throttling - way more than the 7950X. Start at the 19:00 mark for direct power-limited tests. You really need one Hell of a cooler to stop this CPU from thermal throttling - even in games.

View: https://youtu.be/P40gp_DJk5E

I really hate that both teams are now just pumping more and more watts just to get to the top of the charts. I was a little taken aback by AMD's latest formula for power vs. performance but Intel's??? OMG!!

 

[TerryLaze]

You really need one Hell of a cooler to stop this CPU from thermal throttling - even in games.

He also runs it with a PL1 and PL2 of 4100w and vcore up to 1.5V, back in my days we would call that overclocking (minus the forcing the cores to stay at 5.5Ghz) ...now they call it out-of-the-box-we-are-too-dumb-to-change-anything.

 

[alceryes]

He also runs it with a PL1 and PL2 of 4100w and vcore up to 1.5V, back in my days we would call that overclocking (minus the forcing the cores to stay at 5.5Ghz) ...now they call it out-of-the-box-we-are-too-dumb-to-change-anything.

4100w??

Also, he doesn't run it at that - Intel does. Right out of the box.
The efficiency numbers at different power limitations really show the age of the 10nm process, regardless of how much Intel refines it. They really need to switch gears with the node to compete on performance per watt.

 

[TerryLaze]

4100w??

Also, he doesn't run it at that - Intel does. Right out of the box.
The efficiency numbers at different power limitations really show the age of the 10nm process, regardless of how much Intel refines it. They really need to switch gears with the node to compete on performance per watt.

The intel box only has the CPU inside of it so right out of the intel box you have a chip lying on your desk and nothing more...

Der8auer video with the 13900k at the same 90W "eco mode" as the 7950x.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Bm0Wr6OEQ

 

[alceryes]

Hmmm, there's a bit of a difference in those numbers (Hardware Unboxed vs. Der8auer). Course, it could come down to R20 vs. R23. It's insane that out-of-the-box, the 13900k will temp throttle in games with anything less than the top-of-the-line cooler.

Luckily, both AMD's and Intel's top CPUs do well with undervolting. Looks like that's gonna be the new norm to avoid any issues with thermal throttling - especially with Intel's 13th gen.

 

[-Fran-]

Hmmm, there's a bit of a difference in those numbers (Hardware Unboxed vs. Der8auer). Course, it could come down to R20 vs. R23. It's insane that out-of-the-box, the 13900k will temp throttle in games with anything less than the top-of-the-line cooler.

Luckily, both AMD's and Intel's top CPUs do well with undervolting. Looks like that's gonna be the new norm to avoid any issues with thermal throttling - especially with Intel's 13th gen.

I'm willing to say TVB in Intel wasn't disabled (in his BIOS b-roll, it wasn't) and der8auer didn't seem to do 3+ runs and only one per.

Regards.

 

[alceryes]

The intel box only has the CPU inside of it so right out of the intel box you have a chip lying on your desk and nothing more...

"Right out of the box," is a figure of speech.
In this instance, it means that no default settings were changed to show the insane power draw of the 13900K and in-game thermal throttling when paired with a 120 AIO. With that same AIO the 7950X did NOT thermal throttle in Hardware Unboxed's tests.

Also note that with the 120 AIO, the 7950X only lost 100MHz whereas the 13900K lost 400MHz and was thermal throttling.

 

[TerryLaze]

"Right out of the box," is a figure of speech.
In this instance, it means that no default settings were changed to show the insane power draw of the 13900K and in-game thermal throttling when paired with a 120 AIO. With that same AIO the 7950X did NOT thermal throttle in Hardware Unboxed's tests.

Also note that with the 120 AIO, the 7950X only lost 100MHz whereas the 13900K lost 400MHz and was thermal throttling.

You can see on the der8auer video that he also uses the "unlimited power" (4095W) setting getting 318W with cinebench on the PL2=253W 13900k and in almost all games the power usage is around 100-110W except for battlefield 2042 where it's like 125...
Hardware unboxed uses the worst settings possible with his full knowledge to make the intel CPUs look as bad as possible.

 

[-Fran-]

You can see on the der8auer video that he also uses the "unlimited power" (4095W) setting getting 318W with cinebench on the PL2=253W 13900k and in almost all games the power usage is around 100-110W except for battlefield 2042 where it's like 125...
Hardware unboxed uses the worst settings possible with his full knowledge to make the intel CPUs look as bad as possible.

Like it or not, most reviewers try to show what your average consumer will see and experience with the platforms. Otherwise, you would need to wait for OEM systems that force these limits on the platform. Plus, HUB tests in a closed case, like 99% of people (including enthusiasts) do. They're one of the few review outlests that DOES NOT use open bench, so they punish the higher power usage and it shows.

Regards.

 

[alceryes]

You can see on the der8auer video that he also uses the "unlimited power" (4095W) setting getting 318W with cinebench on the PL2=253W 13900k and in almost all games the power usage is around 100-110W except for battlefield 2042 where it's like 125...
Hardware unboxed uses the worst settings possible with his full knowledge to make the intel CPUs look as bad as possible.

Soooo, we're on the same page. Out-of-the-box, Intel's 13th gen will use over 300W and thermal throttle with anything but a premium cooler (under heeavy loads). It doesn't matter if Hardware Unboxed shows the 13th gen at it's worst (performance per watt) if that's the default setting.
As I previously stated, everybody knows AMD and Intel's top CPUs are great candidates for undervolting/power limiting. With Intel, it's almost a must unless you have a good 240 AIO or better.

 

[TerryLaze]

Soooo, we're on the same page. Out-of-the-box, Intel's 13th gen will use over 300W and thermal throttle with anything but a premium cooler (under heeavy loads). It doesn't matter if Hardware Unboxed shows the 13th gen at it's worst (performance per watt) if that's the default setting.
As I previously stated, everybody knows AMD and Intel's top CPUs are great candidates for undervolting/power limiting. With Intel, it's almost a must unless you have a good 240 AIO or better.

In cinebench/productivity, but not in games.
If your cooler can't handle 110W it won't be able to cool an 7950x for gaming either...

 

[TerryLaze]

Soooo, we're on the same page. Out-of-the-box,

Out-of-the-box depends on the box you use...can range from 65W over 200W to unlimited(msi pro b660m-a) in this case, and yes this is for 12th gen but they do use the same boards.

Since the performance at unlimited power depends on the quality of the mobo if you don't change any settings you are doing a mobo review and not a CPU review...

 

[alceryes]

In cinebench/productivity, but not in games.
If your cooler can't handle 110W it won't be able to cool an 7950x for gaming either...

As Hardware Unboxed shows, with a 120mm AIO, the 13900k thermal throttles. In direct comparison, the 7950X does not.

Anywho, not gonna continue to go back and forth. I made my point.

 

[TerryLaze]

As Hardware Unboxed shows, with a 120mm AIO, the 13900k thermal throttles. In direct comparison, the 7950X does not.

Anywho, not gonna continue to go back and forth. I made my point.

He only shows cyberpunk and he also shows the 13900k being 10% faster in that game even with all of that throttling, just imagine if you cool it properly...

 

[jokepoke69]

The 13900K seems to be super efficient after seeing the Debauer's video, eats almost half the power of the 7950X in ECO/UV.

13900K half of the 7950X's power draw when tuned in games. 100W bigger draw in workloads (stock).

7950X smaller power draw in workloads (stock), bigger draw in games when tuned than 13900K.

You can probably tune the 13900K for workloads and get close to the 7950X when eating 200W as well or close who knows.

 

[Why_Me]

Hmmm, there's a bit of a difference in those numbers (Hardware Unboxed vs. Der8auer). Course, it could come down to R20 vs. R23. It's insane that out-of-the-box, the 13900k will temp throttle in games with anything less than the top-of-the-line cooler.

Luckily, both AMD's and Intel's top CPUs do well with undervolting. Looks like that's gonna be the new norm to avoid any issues with thermal throttling - especially with Intel's 13th gen.

It won't be the norm with the upcoming locked Intel cpu's.

 

[-Fran-]

The 13900K seems to be super efficient after seeing the Debauer's video, eats almost half the power of the 7950X in ECO/UV.

13900K half of the 7950X's power draw when tuned in games. 100W bigger draw in workloads (stock).

7950X smaller power draw in workloads (stock), bigger draw in games when tuned than 13900K.

You can probably tune the 13900K for workloads and get close to the 7950X when eating 200W as well or close who knows.

Remember you can also tweak the 7950X beyond just using ECO mode and it's been investigated that there's different way you can optimize both. I do see the 7950X behaves better in all power ranges than Intel, except in lower-threaded work where Intel is just a tad more efficient.

Regards.

 

[jokepoke69]

Remember you can also tweak the 7950X beyond just using ECO mode and it's been investigated that there's different way you can optimize both. I do see the 7950X behaves better in all power ranges than Intel, except in lower-threaded work where Intel is just a tad more efficient.

Regards.

I see, interesting. Which CPU do you think will be better for Handbrake - X265?
The codec has limitation of using 6 cores, so you want these to be highly clocked.
If I don't want to heat up my whole house and sell my kidney for electricity bill, which CPU would theoretically perform better there power-tuned?

You are saying that Intel is more efficient in lower-threaded work which Handbrake probably is since HEVC codec is not using the whole CPU. If 7950X would be more powerful while drawing less power thus generating less heat then that would be a main deciding factor for me. (probably, there is still the DDR5/AM5 thing, so more expensive.)

Thanks

 

[-Fran-]

I see, interesting. Which CPU do you think will be better for Handbrake - X265?
The codec has limitation of using 6 cores, so you want these to be highly clocked.
If I don't want to heat up my whole house and sell my kidney for electricity bill, which CPU would theoretically perform better there power-tuned?

You are saying that Intel is more efficient in lower-threaded work which Handbrake probably is since HEVC codec is not using the whole CPU. If 7950X would be more powerful while drawing less power thus generating less heat then that would be a main deciding factor for me. (probably, there is still the DDR5/AM5 thing, so more expensive.)

Thanks

Intel Core i9-13900K and Core i5-13600K Review - Showdown of the 13th Generation and a 3/4 Crown for the last big Monolith | Page 9 | igor´sLAB

With Raptor Lake, Intel now also ends the era of monolithic processors. This of course comes with another decent performance boost and it will be the purpose of this review to compare the new CPUs…

www.igorslab.de

Igor also shares the power values for both in good detail (where I mostly draw my general statement from), so you can double check there. For the specific workloads you mention, the 7950X has the edge, for sure. All other reviews paint a similar picture.

Regards.

 

[jokepoke69]

Intel Core i9-13900K and Core i5-13600K Review - Showdown of the 13th Generation and a 3/4 Crown for the last big Monolith | Page 9 | igor´sLAB

With Raptor Lake, Intel now also ends the era of monolithic processors. This of course comes with another decent performance boost and it will be the purpose of this review to compare the new CPUs…

www.igorslab.de

Igor also shares the power values for both in good detail (where I mostly draw my general statement from), so you can double check there. For the specific workloads you mention, the 7950X has the edge, for sure. All other reviews paint a similar picture.

Regards.

Sadly it doesn't show encoding times, which are reported to be lower on the 13900K however 7950X gets better framerates, also no power draws/temps in Handbrake gotta wait for them. Thanks for the resource, great.

 

[dalauder]

Where is intels quote? What kind of performance did intel ever quote?
Don't confuse 3rd party benchmarks with intel's quotes.
...
If intel said that the 12900k uses 240W and all the results are at 240w then what exactly is the lie?

There's plenty of examples of Intel's slides. Here's one. https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-show-raptor-lake-beating-amd-zen-4-in-gaming
They do quote superior performance.

You're right that they're not lying about power usage. It's the reviewers that aren't doing a good enough job at investigating throttling.

But maybe AMD's marketing department is just bad. They should have a "review" or "benchmark" setting that lets the CPUs run up to 6.2GHz and 110'C with some fine print saying that it voids the warranty. But Intel's chips probably do just stay stable at hotter temps, which is something important.

 

[TerryLaze]

But maybe AMD's marketing department is just bad. They should have a "review" or "benchmark" setting that lets the CPUs run up to 6.2GHz and 110'C with some fine print saying that it voids the warranty. But Intel's chips probably do just stay stable at hotter temps, which is something important.

Looking at ryzen 7xxx that's exactly what they did, they went as high in power and temp as the hardware allowed, if TSMC manages to make the hardware even better we will see ryzen go even higher in power draw and temps.