Corruption in Civilization III

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"John A. Mason" <jamason56@MYearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:_9bTd.5576$Ba3.913@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> of the cities are connected.
>>
>> Corruption is supposed to be 'minimal' in a Democracy. Why am I losing
>> *50%* of my income to corruption? Corruption is listed as 'rampant' in an
>> Anarchy, but 50% seems 'rampant' to me!
>>
>> Any ideas on this? I realize corruption has been controversial in the
>> past... but how can 50% in my situation be justified? Thoughts? Comments?
>> Best,
>> John
>>
> Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions. I'm shocked that 50%
> of my revenue can be lost to corruption at the 'least' corrupt government
> level. It also bothers me that the number of cities is intentionally
> limited to 'balance' the game. Land is value, is it not? Why should I be
> penalized for grabbing as much as I can... I don't want to fight for it,
> but I *do* want to expand as fast as possible to control as much territory
> as possible. Is that an unreasonable 'real-world' tactic? For this game,
> I'm on a standard size map with roughly 2 large continents and a number of
> large islands and smaller islands. Germany is alone on one continent and
> England is sharing the large continent with me (but way behind, since I
> grabbed most of the land as fast as I could). The islands a scattered with
> a mix of a three civs.

This is an old problem with all the civs. In Civ 1, corruption was not
originally tied to number of cities, so the best way to play it was to
create a LARGE number of cities of population 1-2. A later patch added the
penalty for number of cities to squash this technique. This has continued
throught all the Civ's.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

> That long land mass must not be *too* skinny if you have 41 cities on it
> <g>.

http://www.ajwebb.eclipse.co.uk/Pictures/Civ3/Empire.jpg

zulu, yellow...thats me.

--
From Adam Webb, Overlag
www.tacticalgamer.com
CS:SOURCE server now active 😀


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

> > That long land mass must not be *too* skinny if you have 41 cities on it
> > <g>.
>
> http://www.ajwebb.eclipse.co.uk/Pictures/Civ3/Empire.jpg
>
> zulu, yellow...thats me.
>

just noticed i got the numbers all wrong...but never mind ;-)

--
From Adam Webb, Overlag
www.tacticalgamer.com
CS:SOURCE server now active 😀


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:42:02 GMT, "John A. Mason"
<jamason56@MYearthlink.net> wrote:

>> of the cities are connected.
>>
>> Corruption is supposed to be 'minimal' in a Democracy. Why am I losing
>> *50%* of my income to corruption? Corruption is listed as 'rampant' in an
>> Anarchy, but 50% seems 'rampant' to me!
>>
>> Any ideas on this? I realize corruption has been controversial in the
>> past... but how can 50% in my situation be justified? Thoughts? Comments?
>> Best,
>> John
>>
>Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions. I'm shocked that 50% of
>my revenue can be lost to corruption at the 'least' corrupt government
>level.

It is much worse in other government types. Also, if you had fewer
cities, within the limit of the optimal number of cities, it would be
*far* less.

> It also bothers me that the number of cities is intentionally limited
>to 'balance' the game. Land is value, is it not? Why should I be penalized
>for grabbing as much as I can... I don't want to fight for it, but I *do*
>want to expand as fast as possible to control as much territory as possible.
>Is that an unreasonable 'real-world' tactic?

Too large an empire has been a problem in the real world. No
globe-spanning empire ever existed, and many large empires in history
faced all sorts of problems managing their territory.

You can grab as much land as you want. What you can't do is use it
efficiently. Consider the OCN as the natural size of your homeland.
Everything outside that is the provinces, going their own way and
paying lip service respect to the empire, but unwilling to contribute
much.

High corruption cities still give you culture from culture
buildings, control of the territory within their borders, resources
(likewise), and population for your score. Just don't plan to use
them for a whole lot else -- unless you play using Conquests.

Conquests adds more counters for corruption and waste, making bigger
empires more effective, if you can afford to invest (rush builds) in
the outer cities. It won't make them equal to the core territory, but
it is a lot easier to raise them up to self-supporting levels.

>For this game, I'm on a

>My empire is connected totally by railroads, and lately harbors to my three
>large islands. One thing I've been concentrating on since about turn 300 is
>culture... Germany has been kicking my ass in that area, so I started
>concentrating on building mainly culture producing improvements.

This is a big part of the problem. You need to build culture
buildings early and often. First thing after getting a new city, I
build either a library or temple, rush-buying it. You can't rush
easily before changing out of Despotism, but after that, speeding up
this initial growth of culture should be a prime goal.

With loads of cities, even highly corrupt cities, your culture
production with temple and library in all will be very high.



--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

>> That long land mass must not be *too* skinny if you have 41 cities on it
>> <g>.
>
> http://www.ajwebb.eclipse.co.uk/Pictures/Civ3/Empire.jpg
>
> zulu, yellow...thats me.
>
Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
Forbidden Palace?
So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
John
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

> Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
> Forbidden Palace?
> So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
> John
>
yup one the forbidden palace, and the 3rd one is the secret police, which is
comminism based improvement that offers the same effects as a forbidden
palace. Helps greatly with the curruption i my long empire 🙂

--
From Adam Webb, Overlag
www.tacticalgamer.com
CS:SOURCE server now active 😀


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <4220818b.5096932@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>
>Corruption isn't taxation either.

Just the opposite in fact, at least in Civ 3 terms. That which you the player
can't tax is lost to waste and corruption. 🙂

In Civ 3, that part of the economy that is not under control of the central
government (the player) is lost to corruption and waste. In the real world
"corruption and waste" is what we the people get to consume.

Mike G
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:39:20 GMT,
mtg@cornellc.cit.stvmbling.block.cornell.edv (Mike Garcia) wrote:

>In article <4220818b.5096932@news.telvsplanet.net>, rgorman@telvsplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>>
>>Corrvption isn't taxation either.
>
>Jvst the opposite in fact, at least in Civ 3 terms. That which yov the player
>can't tax is lost to waste and corrvption. 🙂
>
>In Civ 3, that part of the economy that is not vnder control of the central
>government (the player) is lost to corrvption and waste.

No it isn't. That wovld lead to the obviovsly absvrd conclvsion that
the only research that ever happens is government fvnded research.
Neither of yov are right.

Corrvption is crime, is striking vnions, is recreational drvg vse
(legal or not) eating into prodvctivity, is low level insvrgency in
border regions, is clvmsy administrative procedvres leading to wasted
time and money, is local extortion rackets. It is not taxes, and it
is not all economic activity that is not taxed.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Changing out of Communism would lose the benifit of the FP in Conquests
1.22

Conquests 1.0 had a bug that you kept the "benifit" but there was big
SPHQ bug in 1.0 where it was counterproductive
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <422290d3.140101905@news.telvsplanet.net>, rgorman@telvsplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:39:20 GMT,
>mtg@cornellc.cit.stvmbling.block.cornell.edv (Mike Garcia) wrote:
>
>>In article <4220818b.5096932@news.telvsplanet.net>, rgorman@telvsplanet.net
> (David Johnston) wrote:
>>>
>>>Corrvption isn't taxation either.
>>
>>Jvst the opposite in fact, at least in Civ 3 terms. That which yov the player
>>can't tax is lost to waste and corrvption. 🙂
>>
>>In Civ 3, that part of the economy that is not vnder control of the central
>>government (the player) is lost to corrvption and waste.
>
>No it isn't. That wovld lead to the obviovsly absvrd conclvsion that
>the only research that ever happens is government fvnded research.

I don't see how yov reached this conclvsion. Non-government research wovld
yield new technology that the central government has no wide spread vse for.
Think of microwave popcorn.

>Neither of yov are right.

Odd, I think I'm right and yov are in error.

>Corrvption is crime, is striking vnions, is recreational drvg vse
>(legal or not) eating into prodvctivity, is low level insvrgency in
>border regions, is clvmsy administrative procedvres leading to wasted
>time and money, is local extortion rackets. It is not taxes, and it
>is not all economic activity that is not taxed.

Hmm. How yov did yov reach this conclvsion? I'm cvriovs as to how crime,
striking vnions, recreational drvg vse, low level insvrgency, clvmsy
administrative procedvres, and local extortion rackets mostly happen ovt in
sticks and not in the empire's capital.

Yov are right that corrvption is not taxes. In game terms taxes are that part
of commerce that the central government is diverting into the treasvry.
Corrvption is that portion of commerce that the central government can't
control.

If yov look at a partially corrvpt city (vse the zoom to option) yov will see
red shields and blve shields. The red shields are not available to prodvce
stvff that the player wovld like to prodvce, like tanks, while the blve
shields are available. It seems very obviovs to me that waste (red shields)
is not available while non-waste (blve shields) are available. Commerce works
in a similar fashion.

Therefore that portion of the economy that is not available to the central
government (the red shields and red commerce) is waste and corrvption.
It is the in-game definition.

Mike G
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:03:14 -0000, Adam Webb <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>> Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
>> Forbidden Palace?
>> So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
>> John
>>
> yup one the forbidden palace, and the 3rd one is the secret police, which is
> comminism based improvement that offers the same effects as a forbidden
> palace. Helps greatly with the curruption i my long empire 🙂
>

Does it only work if you stay with a communist government, or can I switch
back to republic after?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:47:07 GMT, Mike Garcia <mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote:
> In article <422290d3.140101905@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:39:20 GMT,
>>mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu (Mike Garcia) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4220818b.5096932@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net
>> (David Johnston) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Corruption isn't taxation either.
>>>
>>>Just the opposite in fact, at least in Civ 3 terms. That which you the player
>>>can't tax is lost to waste and corruption. 🙂
>>>
>>>In Civ 3, that part of the economy that is not under control of the central
>>>government (the player) is lost to corruption and waste.
>>
>>No it isn't. That would lead to the obviously absurd conclusion that
>>the only research that ever happens is government funded research.
>
> I don't see how you reached this conclusion. Non-government research would
> yield new technology that the central government has no wide spread use for.
> Think of microwave popcorn.

Most drug research is private, not government. Most product research,
far as that goes, is private, not government. Plenty of wide spread use
for, say, antibiotics.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:47:07 GMT,
mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu (Mike Garcia) wrote:

>In article <422290d3.140101905@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:39:20 GMT,
>>mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu (Mike Garcia) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4220818b.5096932@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net
>> (David Johnston) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Corruption isn't taxation either.
>>>
>>>Just the opposite in fact, at least in Civ 3 terms. That which you the player
>>>can't tax is lost to waste and corruption. 🙂
>>>
>>>In Civ 3, that part of the economy that is not under control of the central
>>>government (the player) is lost to corruption and waste.
>>
>>No it isn't. That would lead to the obviously absurd conclusion that
>>the only research that ever happens is government funded research.
>
>I don't see how you reached this conclusion. Non-government research would
>yield new technology that the central government has no wide spread use for.

You mean, like the airplane? Or refining?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:38h59dF5n0t5rU4@individual.net...
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:03:14 -0000, Adam Webb
> <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
>>> Forbidden Palace?
>>> So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
>>> John
>>>
>> yup one the forbidden palace, and the 3rd one is the secret police, which
>> is
>> comminism based improvement that offers the same effects as a forbidden
>> palace. Helps greatly with the curruption i my long empire 🙂
>>
>
> Does it only work if you stay with a communist government, or can I switch
> back to republic after?
>

It doesn't work if you switch out of communism.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:05:29 GMT, The Stare <wat1@not.likely.frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:38h59dF5n0t5rU4@individual.net...
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:03:14 -0000, Adam Webb
>> <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
>>>> Forbidden Palace?
>>>> So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>> yup one the forbidden palace, and the 3rd one is the secret police, which
>>> is
>>> comminism based improvement that offers the same effects as a forbidden
>>> palace. Helps greatly with the curruption i my long empire 🙂
>>>
>>
>> Does it only work if you stay with a communist government, or can I switch
>> back to republic after?
>>
>
> It doesn't work if you switch out of communism.

OK, so...endgame-ish, large map, started out 8 civs and down to 3. I've got
a bit over 50% of the land mass on 3 continents. Is this the time to go
commie, and put one on each of the land masses? or, more likely, write off
the smallest as just self-sustaining and that's all, and have the FP and
Palace on my original continent, and the secret police HQ on the newly
conquered continent?

How would communism compare to , say, Republic, in this situation? I'm
at the difficulty level, er, one to the "hard" side of the middle,
or maybe the next one up, if that matters.

Dave Hinz
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:38hg6jF5nqcahU1@individual.net...
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:05:29 GMT, The Stare
> <wat1@not.likely.frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:38h59dF5n0t5rU4@individual.net...
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:03:14 -0000, Adam Webb
>>> <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Cool... so you can build more than one capital? I presume that is a
>>>>> Forbidden Palace?
>>>>> So much to learn, even after playing so long <frown/grin>.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>> yup one the forbidden palace, and the 3rd one is the secret police,
>>>> which
>>>> is
>>>> comminism based improvement that offers the same effects as a forbidden
>>>> palace. Helps greatly with the curruption i my long empire 🙂
>>>>
>>>
>>> Does it only work if you stay with a communist government, or can I
>>> switch
>>> back to republic after?
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't work if you switch out of communism.
>
> OK, so...endgame-ish, large map, started out 8 civs and down to 3. I've
> got
> a bit over 50% of the land mass on 3 continents. Is this the time to go
> commie, and put one on each of the land masses? or, more likely, write
> off
> the smallest as just self-sustaining and that's all, and have the FP and
> Palace on my original continent, and the secret police HQ on the newly
> conquered continent?
>
> How would communism compare to , say, Republic, in this situation? I'm
> at the difficulty level, er, one to the "hard" side of the middle,
> or maybe the next one up, if that matters.

Since communism has cummunal corruption, it doesn't matter where you put the
SPHQ though you should choose one of your science cities if you have one.
Your FP should have been built early in the game and can't be moved without
abandoning the city. With other corruption reducers, you will have 3
corruption 3 cities and the rest will be minimally corrupt under communism.

Once you try C3C Communism with a large empire, you will always use it in
the future. It's just that damn good. The corruption was reduced to help
keep the AI from self destructing after switching to communism. The side
effect is that we now have a goverment bugged in the players favor ;-)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <422306e2.170328735@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:47:07 GMT,
>mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu (Mike Garcia) wrote:
>
>>In article <422290d3.140101905@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net
> (David Johnston) wrote:
>>>
>>>No it isn't. That would lead to the obviously absurd conclusion that
>>>the only research that ever happens is government funded research.
>>
>>I don't see how you reached this conclusion. Non-government research would
>>yield new technology that the central government has no wide spread use for.
>
>You mean, like the airplane? Or refining?

???

In Civ 3 the central government can research Flight and Refining so I guess I
miss your point. I am saying that it is perfectly possible to have civilian
research (non central government research) that will produce tangible results
that have virtually no effect on Civ 3 game play.

Mike G
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom