CPU Cooling questions

[DrizzyDom]

Hey all. I recently finished my build (specs below) and have been enjoying it thoroughly so far. However, I seem to notice that my CPU runs very hot with the stock cooler, reaching temperatures of 100C under full load, even with the stock cooler running at full speed. Granted, this isn't a problem as far as damaging the CPU or socket would go, as the T-junction temperature is rated at 100C. I would like to fix this so that under full load it does not reach its temperature limit and begin to throttle itself. All other parts of my system stay very cool under full load (with only the GPU reaching around 80-90 degrees under full load), and the CPU gets this hot with or without the GPU installed. Since this build was technically an upgrade though, I have an old CoolerMaster CPU fan and heatsink that I could use to replace the stock one, but I don't have any additional thermal paste to use or apply anywhere. However, upon removing the heatsink from the original CPU before upgrading, I did not wipe off any of the thermal paste.

I know this may seem like a lot, but all I'm really trying to ask is this. Would I need to purchase CPU thermal paste to apply to the heatsink before replacing the stock one, or would the already present paste on both the CPU and heatsink be enough to provide the cooling performance that I would like to see?


System Specs:
CPU: Intel i5 7400 @3.0GHz
GPU: MSI Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB
Motherboard: GIGABYTE Z270M
RAM: Ballistix 16GB kit (2x8GB)

 

[Dark Lord of Tech]

You need to purchase and apply new Paste , most coolers come with decent paste to apply. I use MX4.

 

[elbert]

It takes a bit for paste to start curring. Once that starts the paste will hold the heatsink off the CPU and cause higher temps. For that paste it would only take a few days at most. If its been longer you will for sure need new paste. If you want a better heatsink maybe pick up the cryorig M9i that comes with paste. This heatsink is as good as the CM212 evo if you need a better cooler.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU Cooler: CRYORIG M9i 48.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $19.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-06 11:21 EST-0500

 

[13thmonkey]

I'd suggest poorly fitted push pins too if you are reaching 100C.

 

[DrizzyDom]

You need to purchase and apply new Paste , most coolers come with decent paste to apply. I use MX4.

I kind of figured, but I figured I'd ask anyway, as I would obviously rather not have to go through the hassle of ordering something if I didn't need to.

It takes a bit for paste to start curring. Once that starts the paste will hold the heatsink off the CPU and cause higher temps. For that paste it would only take a few days at most. If its been longer you will for sure need new paste. If you want a better heatsink maybe pick up the cryorig M9i that comes with paste. This heatsink is as good as the CM212 evo if you need a better cooler.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU Cooler: CRYORIG M9i 48.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $19.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-06 11:21 EST-0500

I'll definitely look into that cooler, but I did say that I have a leftover aftermarket cooler from the original build (which happened to just have been a standard best buy PC from several years ago) so I would only really need the thermal paste. Nonetheless, I'll do some research into my different options and try to pick what will suit my system best.

 

[geofelt]

Buy a tube of paste. I use AS5, but, anything will do.
At idle, you should see 10-15c. over ambient if the cooler is mounted well.
Here is how to do it:
----------------how to mount the stock Intel cooler--------------

The stock Intel cooler can be tricky to install.
A poor installation will result in higher cpu temperatures.
If properly mounted, you should expect temperatures at idle to be 10-15c. over ambient.

To mount the Intel stock cooler properly, place the motherboard on top of the foam or cardboard backing that was packed with the motherboard.
The stock cooler will come with paste pre applied, it looks like three grey strips.
The 4 push pins should come in the proper position for installation, that is with the pins rotated in the opposite direction of the arrow,(clockwise)
and pulled up as far as they can go.
Take the time to play with the pushpin mechanism until you know how they work.

Orient the 4 pins so that they are exactly over the motherboard holes.
If one is out of place, you will damage the pins which are delicate.
Push down on a DIAGONAL pair of pins at the same time. Then the other pair.

When you push down on the top black pins, it expands the white plastic pins to fix the cooler in place.

If you do them one at a time, you will not get the cooler on straight.
Lastly, look at the back of the motherboard to verify that all 4 pins are equally through the motherboard, and that the cooler is on firmly.
This last step must be done, which is why the motherboard should be out of the case to do the job. Or you need a case with a opening that lets you see the pins.
It is possible to mount the cooler with the motherboard mounted in the case, but you can then never be certain that the push pins are inserted properly
unless you can verify that the pins are through the motherboard and locked.

If you should need to remove the cooler, turn the pins counter clockwise to unlock them.
You will need to clean off the old paste and reapply new if you ever take the cooler off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[13thmonkey]

^ Good instructions, remarkably common problem, lessened recently because the K's don't have stock coolers.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

1. There are two types of CPU failures ... instantaneous and damage over time. When you talks about 100C, you are talking about instantaneous failure. Not experiencing instant death does not mean you are out of the woods.... think Frodo . A CPU contains thousands of tiny circuit traces separated by an insulating material; the ability of that material to prevent short circuiting / cross talk deteriorates over time. Higher voltages and higher temperatures accelerate that deterioration.

Neither I nor anyone else can tell you what is safe, most consider up to 1.4v and 80C safe for for long term usage. While enthusiasts will go higher, it's usually going to be those who don't **rely** on having that PC available to make a living with or can get by a few days while replacing the CPU. The only way to know what that safe range is is to push and push till you get a failure .... and how many "My CPU died today after xx months at y.yy volts and zz C" posts do you see. Been building PCs for 25 years and when i count I can't use all the fingers on one hand. So what data can be found would be statistically insignificant.

2. The most common reason for high temps on a stock cooler I find is one or more of the push pins hasn't been pushed firmly in place. Turn the PC on it's side and examine the pins ... do they all look the same ? Can you feel any movement pressing on them ? If one clicks in, try looking at temps again.

3. Did the cooler you are using come with the CPU ? If not, then it may not fit properly on a CPU with different socket design.

4. If not, you will have to re-seat. Take off the cooler and thoroughly clean the heat plate on the cooler and the CPU surface. We use Indigo Extreme Cleaner but 90+% alcohol will suffice.

5. Grab a new tube of TIM. Like many PC components, there';s on;y a handful of OEMs supplying the material to 100s of vendors / model lines. I's suggest avoiding the liquid metal types and high priced solutions for no k series processors, but the best available TIM outside those categories is Shin Etsu 751G.

a) It matches AS5s thermal conductivity but w/o the problems associated with AS5.
http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

b) It' safe. See comments on AS5's home page about it being electrically capacitive and taking 200 hours to cure.
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

c) It's extremely cheap.
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/mDPfrH/masscool-thermal-paste-g751

6. This is the best article on TIM application I have seen so far and it dispels many of the common myths about the process.

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=170&Itemid=38

I'll definitely look into that cooler, but I did say that I have a leftover aftermarket cooler from the original build (which happened to just have been a standard best buy PC from several years ago) so I would only really need the thermal paste. Nonetheless, I'll do some research into my different options and try to pick what will suit my system best.

See Item 3 above

 

[DrizzyDom]

1. There are two types of CPU failures ... instantaneous and damage over time. When you talks about 100C, you are talking about instantaneous failure. Not experiencing instant death does not mean you are out of the woods.... think Frodo . A CPU contains thousands of tiny circuit traces separated by an insulating material; the ability of that material to prevent short circuiting / cross talk deteriorates over time. Higher voltages and higher temperatures accelerate that deterioration.

Neither I nor anyone else can tell you what is safe, most consider up to 1.4v and 80C safe for for long term usage. While enthusiasts will go higher, it's usually going to be those who don't **rely** on having that PC available to make a living with or can get by a few days while replacing the CPU. The only way to know what that safe range is is to push and push till you get a failure .... and how many "My CPU died today after xx months at y.yy volts and zz C" posts do you see. Been building PCs for 25 years and when i count I can't use all the fingers on one hand. So what data can be found would be statistically insignificant.

2. The most common reason for high temps on a stock cooler I find is one or more of the push pins hasn't been pushed firmly in place. Turn the PC on it's side and examine the pins ... do they all look the same ? Can you feel any movement pressing on them ? If one clicks in, try looking at temps again.

3. Did the cooler you are using come with the CPU ? If not, then it may not fit properly on a CPU with different socket design.

4. If not, you will have to re-seat. Take off the cooler and thoroughly clean the heat plate on the cooler and the CPU surface. We use Indigo Extreme Cleaner but 90+% alcohol will suffice.

5. Grab a new tube of TIM. Like many PC components, there';s on;y a handful of OEMs supplying the material to 100s of vendors / model lines. I's suggest avoiding the liquid metal types and high priced solutions for no k series processors, but the best available TIM outside those categories is Shin Etsu 751G.

a) It matches AS5s thermal conductivity but w/o the problems associated with AS5.
http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

b) It' safe. See comments on AS5's home page about it being electrically capacitive and taking 200 hours to cure.
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

c) It's extremely cheap.
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/mDPfrH/masscool-thermal-paste-g751

6. This is the best article on TIM application I have seen so far and it dispels many of the common myths about the process.

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=170&Itemid=38

I'll definitely look into that cooler, but I did say that I have a leftover aftermarket cooler from the original build (which happened to just have been a standard best buy PC from several years ago) so I would only really need the thermal paste. Nonetheless, I'll do some research into my different options and try to pick what will suit my system best.

See Item 3 above

Well, the whole voltage and temperature issue I feel shouldn't really be a problem with the system as a whole, since I'm not overclocking at all, nor am I tweaking any of those settings in the BIOS, leaving everything on Auto. I was already making sure that the CPU cooler I was planning to buy would fit my current socket, since I have had experience with incompatible parts before.

 

[DrizzyDom]

Buy a tube of paste. I use AS5, but, anything will do.
At idle, you should see 10-15c. over ambient if the cooler is mounted well.
Here is how to do it:
----------------how to mount the stock Intel cooler--------------

The stock Intel cooler can be tricky to install.
A poor installation will result in higher cpu temperatures.
If properly mounted, you should expect temperatures at idle to be 10-15c. over ambient.

To mount the Intel stock cooler properly, place the motherboard on top of the foam or cardboard backing that was packed with the motherboard.
The stock cooler will come with paste pre applied, it looks like three grey strips.
The 4 push pins should come in the proper position for installation, that is with the pins rotated in the opposite direction of the arrow,(clockwise)
and pulled up as far as they can go.
Take the time to play with the pushpin mechanism until you know how they work.

Orient the 4 pins so that they are exactly over the motherboard holes.
If one is out of place, you will damage the pins which are delicate.
Push down on a DIAGONAL pair of pins at the same time. Then the other pair.

When you push down on the top black pins, it expands the white plastic pins to fix the cooler in place.

If you do them one at a time, you will not get the cooler on straight.
Lastly, look at the back of the motherboard to verify that all 4 pins are equally through the motherboard, and that the cooler is on firmly.
This last step must be done, which is why the motherboard should be out of the case to do the job. Or you need a case with a opening that lets you see the pins.
It is possible to mount the cooler with the motherboard mounted in the case, but you can then never be certain that the push pins are inserted properly
unless you can verify that the pins are through the motherboard and locked.

If you should need to remove the cooler, turn the pins counter clockwise to unlock them.
You will need to clean off the old paste and reapply new if you ever take the cooler off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't mean this to come across as offensive in any way, as I really do appreciate the detailed instructions. However, upon initially realizing the temperature issue with my CPU, I tried multiple times to reinstall the CPU fan, with no amount of pin order or orientation making a difference on the CPU hitting 100C. During my doing of all of this, your steps were actually ones that I followed, albeit merely coincidentally, as I have worked on tires and other such things, so the diagonal x diagonal method only seemed logical to me at the time.

 

[geofelt]

Does your case supply sufficient fresh air for the cooler to do it's job?
see if taking the case covers off helps.

 

[DrizzyDom]

Does your case supply sufficient fresh air for the cooler to do it's job?
see if taking the case covers off helps.

My case provides more than adequate airflow to all of the internal coolers (cpu, gpu, etc) and to confirm this, I even tried turning my system fan 1 up all the way since it is literally right next to the cpu cooler, and it made no noticeable difference besides being noisier. I ordered a relatively cheap aftermarket CPU cooling fan and upon removing the stock cooler, I noticed that there were abundant air bubbles that most likely got caught within as a result of removing and reapplying the heatsink while changing motherboards, as unfortunately, Intel only provides the thermal paste on the heatsink with no extra to apply in case you need some. However, I am glad to say that with this aftermarket cooler, I left my PC on all night with a CPU burn test running to max out the CPU usage and the maximum temperature it hit during those hours was only 52C.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Well, the whole voltage and temperature issue I feel shouldn't really be a problem with the system as a whole, since I'm not overclocking at all, nor am I tweaking any of those settings in the BIOS, leaving everything on Auto. I was already making sure that the CPU cooler I was planning to buy would fit my current socket, since I have had experience with incompatible parts before.

I do not understand, you said that your CPU was at 100C so how could the "whole temperature issue" not apply. ?

Granted, this isn't a problem as far as damaging the CPU or socket would go, as the T-junction temperature is rated at 100C.

So, yes, it most definitely is a problem if you are using your PC with a CPU temp of 100C, it may not fail instantly, but the long term viability of that CPU under current operating conditions is most certainly in jeopardy.

If you are not overclocking at all than anything above the stock cooler is really a waste of time, money and effort when properly installed.

Given the temp of your CPU *and* GPU (should be < 70C at full load), I see three potential causes... a) case cooling is inadequate, b) the cooler does not appear to be properly installed or c) your ambient air is in excess of 100F.