Question CPU Cooling

[Brian_278]

Okay so I picked up a Ryzen 7 9800x3d and popped it on a B650 Edge, using a Ryujin 2 360 push/pull

I am not very tech savvy, so going into the Bios and screwing around with things, I would rather not do, if possible.

I am currently running six LL SL Inf 140mm intakes, front side and bottom.
Eight LL SL Inf 120mm, two for exhaust and six on the rad.

My temps, I know, I have heard and I am expecting that the cpu temps will be higher then my older I7-10700K, and they are, 42-44 idle and I have peaked a couple times as high was 83, haven't crossed into the 90s.....yet. That 83 for the record, is hit very rarely when gaming, but with CB23 that seems to be where it maxes out after a run.

IF I were to swap the six SLs on the rad to TLs, is there going to be any real difference in temps? (going from 2.66 to 3.97 static press.)

Thanks!!

 

[bill001g]

What is your goal to get some arbitrary lower temperature number.

82 degrees will run the same as 83 or 84 or even 94...If I remember the thermal limit for 9800x3d correctly.

As long as you are below the thermal limit the cpu will run at the full clock speed and not degrade the performance. You of course do not want to be running it extremely close to the thermal limit since it likely will be hitting the limit but just not telling you but you are already 10 degrees below.

 

[Brian_278]

What is your goal to get some arbitrary lower temperature number.

82 degrees will run the same as 83 or 84 or even 94...If I remember the thermal limit for 9800x3d correctly.

As long as you are below the thermal limit the cpu will run at the full clock speed and not degrade the performance. You of course do not want to be running it extremely close to the thermal limit since it likely will be hitting the limit but just not telling you but you are already 10 degrees below.

I know that I have to read everything with a big "grain of salt" but I keep reading folks getting low 40s like me for idle, but when gaming, never crack 55 degrees and certainly not 60. Guess that makes me a bit jealous, provided it's true and I would prefer to be that low, dancing much closer to a 95 degree limit makes me a bit nervous, but as I say, maybe it's just something I need to get used to now that I have gone Team Red.

 

[JayGau]

83c with cinebench is actually very good. At stock mine reaches 90 easily with this test (but doesn't even reach 80 with curve optimizer). However, I've never seen 80 during gaming. I actually barely reach 60. Not even 50 in CPU-light games.

You have to understand that your fans have no effect on the CPU temperature, they cool down the liquid, and the liquid cools down the CPU. So you have to monitor the liquid temp and keep it below 10 degrees above the room temperature. If your liquid stays cold, modifying your fans will not change anything.

But getting high temp spikes like that when you just started to play a game would look more like a bad coupling between the CPU and the cooling block (that would be even more likely if the liquid temp doesn't seem to warm very much over time when gaming). Unless your motherboard has some aggressive overclock settings.

 

[Brian_278]

83c with cinebench is actually very good. At stock mine reaches 90 easily with this test (but doesn't even reach 80 with curve optimizer). However, I've never seen 80 during gaming. I actually barely reach 60. Not even 50 in CPU-light games.

You have to understand that your fans have no effect on the CPU temperature, they cool down the liquid, and the liquid cools down the CPU. So you have to monitor the liquid temp and keep it below 10 degrees above the room temperature. If your liquid stays cold, modifying your fans will not change anything.

But getting high temp spikes like that when you just started to play a game would look more like a bad coupling between the CPU and the cooling block (that would be even more likely if the liquid temp doesn't seem to warm very much over time when gaming). Unless your motherboard has some aggressive overclock settings.

Alright so I took a chance, tried the PBO settings to undervolt? now with a single core, doesn't go past 47 degrees, multi cores, 81, so dropped a bit.
No overclocking on the board at all, I am a bit limited on my techi experience and nothing to that extent.

For example, a game like WoW it hardly breaks 60, maybe 65. But something more fast paced, say the latest Need For Speed, that generated some odd spikes to 80, but never held that temp, just spiked.

See, I am learning every day, I thought that the air that flows through the vents on rads, those vents are connected to the "pipes" on the sides and end, so the more air you can flow through, the cooler it may become.
Current room temp. is 23 degrees.

I used a generous amount of Grizzly paste applied to the entire surface, nothing too thick. Makes me wonder if my cooler is starting to fail? I know that if it is done, it wouldn't even hold the temps it's holding right now.
I am guessing there is no way to really test it, other then what I have done, push it on CB23.

And if I can ask, IF I did end up replacing my Ryujin 2 360, for a cooler that already has thermal paste on it, would you remove the paste and apply something you think would be better, or would you trust the paste that came with say a Ryujin 3 360 or the LL Galahad 360?

 

[beyondlogic]

Alright so I took a chance, tried the PBO settings to undervolt? now with a single core, doesn't go past 47 degrees, multi cores, 81, so dropped a bit.
No overclocking on the board at all, I am a bit limited on my techi experience and nothing to that extent.

For example, a game like WoW it hardly breaks 60, maybe 65. But something more fast paced, say the latest Need For Speed, that generated some odd spikes to 80, but never held that temp, just spiked.

See, I am learning every day, I thought that the air that flows through the vents on rads, those vents are connected to the "pipes" on the sides and end, so the more air you can flow through, the cooler it may become.
Current room temp. is 23 degrees.

I used a generous amount of Grizzly paste applied to the entire surface, nothing too thick. Makes me wonder if my cooler is starting to fail? I know that if it is done, it wouldn't even hold the temps it's holding right now.
I am guessing there is no way to really test it, other then what I have done, push it on CB23.

And if I can ask, IF I did end up replacing my Ryujin 2 360, for a cooler that already has thermal paste on it, would you remove the paste and apply something you think would be better, or would you trust the paste that came with say a Ryujin 3 360 or the LL Galahad 360?

how do you have the radiator is it in the top ? or in the front of your pc case.

and what orientation are the pipes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

 

[JayGau]

See, I am learning every day, I thought that the air that flows through the vents on rads, those vents are connected to the "pipes" on the sides and end, so the more air you can flow through, the cooler it may become.
Current room temp. is 23 degrees.

I used a generous amount of Grizzly paste applied to the entire surface, nothing too thick. Makes me wonder if my cooler is starting to fail? I know that if it is done, it wouldn't even hold the temps it's holding right now.
I am guessing there is no way to really test it, other then what I have done, push it on CB23.

And if I can ask, IF I did end up replacing my Ryujin 2 360, for a cooler that already has thermal paste on it, would you remove the paste and apply something you think would be better, or would you trust the paste that came with say a Ryujin 3 360 or the LL Galahad 360?

The liquid circulates through the pipes and the radiator, and your fans cool down the liquid by pushing air through the radiator. Yes, more you push air through the radiator and more the liquid stays cold. But the fans don't affect the CPU temperature directly. All you CPU sees is the liquid. So pushing more air through the radiator will not prevent temps spikes. It's why you should always set your fan curve as a function of the liquid temperature, not the CPU temp.

Ok your room is at 23c, but what is your liquid temp? When gaming, it should not exceed 33c (23+10). If it does, then you have to set a more aggressive fan curve, or get better fans. If the liquid never gets really warm, like it stays at 25-26c, it means that you might not transfer the heat very well to the liquid (that could explain high temp spikes).

For the pre-applied paste, pretty much everybody on the internet will say to wipe it off and put some new one, but I would say it depends. A cheap cooler, yes, better to put new paste. For an expensive one, the pre-applied paste will do just fine (companies want you to have good temp with their expensive coolers so they put good paste on it). I ran my R9 5900x with a Corsair H150i Elite LCD and the pre-applied paste for 2 years (before to upgrade to the 9800X3D a couple of months ago) and it was just fine. The temp have been excellent all along.

 

[JayGau]

how do you have the radiator is it in the top ? or in the front of your pc case.

and what orientation are the pipes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

I guess we are going there again. It doesn't matter if the radiator is on the front and the pipes are upward, as long as the pipes connect to the radiator above the pump so no air gets trapped in the pump. It's simple physics. And with most modern cases, it's impossible to have it wrong since the pump is always lower than the top of the radiator. Jaytwocents explained this a while ago because plenty of people misinterpreted the Gamer Nexus's video.

 

[oracle9]

I found this to be a good temperature guide: https://www.pcworld.com/article/407914/how-to-check-your-cpu-temperature.html

You might want to look at the BIOS/UEFI to try to change the speed. It doesn't necessarily always work though. That's before your operating system starts. Push ESC, F5 or whatever key you use at boot to stop it loading into your OS as usual and check the settings.

 

[Brian_278]

how do you have the radiator is it in the top ? or in the front of your pc case.

and what orientation are the pipes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

Rad is definitely on top as exhaust, I tried on the side intaking, but my cpu temps increased, so I moved it back to the top. And yep I have seen both that and Jayz videos.

 

[Brian_278]

I found this to be a good temperature guide: https://www.pcworld.com/article/407914/how-to-check-your-cpu-temperature.html

You might want to look at the BIOS/UEFI to try to change the speed. It doesn't necessarily always work though. That's before your operating system starts. Push ESC, F5 or whatever key you use at boot to stop it loading into your OS as usual and check the settings.

There are some interesting tools there for sure. Currently I am running MSI Afterburner, I run it during bench tests and while gaming so I can keep an eye on things. As well the Ryujin 2 360 does change the screen from my gif to a temp reading marked in red to get my attention. I didn't realize you could change the speed?? I have enabled XMP on my ram and overclocked my old i7-10700k, but I definitely don't want to touch either at this point, do you mean you can actually slow it down? It maybe be worth it to me, most would want an increase I would think, but until I can figure it out....might be worth a shot.

 

[Brian_278]

The liquid circulates through the pipes and the radiator, and your fans cool down the liquid by pushing air through the radiator. Yes, more you push air through the radiator and more the liquid stays cold. But the fans don't affect the CPU temperature directly. All you CPU sees is the liquid. So pushing more air through the radiator will not prevent temps spikes. It's why you should always set your fan curve as a function of the liquid temperature, not the CPU temp.

Ok your room is at 23c, but what is your liquid temp? When gaming, it should not exceed 33c (23+10). If it does, then you have to set a more aggressive fan curve, or get better fans. If the liquid never gets really warm, like it stays at 25-26c, it means that you might not transfer the heat very well to the liquid (that could explain high temp spikes).

For the pre-applied paste, pretty much everybody on the internet will say to wipe it off and put some new one, but I would say it depends. A cheap cooler, yes, better to put new paste. For an expensive one, the pre-applied paste will do just fine (companies want you to have good temp with their expensive coolers so they put good paste on it). I ran my R9 5900x with a Corsair H150i Elite LCD and the pre-applied paste for 2 years (before to upgrade to the 9800X3D a couple of months ago) and it was just fine. The temp have been excellent all along.

I am taking down this info as fast as I can, feels like my head's gonna explode lol, all good though, I gotcha now. So, as dumb as I am, I have to ask, how do you get the temp of the fluid, I am quite curious as I have never done that before.
Ya, I figured my Ryujin 360 would have no issues keeping things cool, but as you mentioned, there might be something going on. Before I go dropping $400 on a LL cooler, which I have been eyeing might be good to get to the root of the issue first.

Currently I have the fans to ramp to 100% at 55 degrees. So, even WoW I find they are turning on and off to full. I do have a gradual curve, but it ramps up, as I say, at 55. So playing something like NFS they are at full throttle, the noise doesn't bug me, even when I had my old system with TLs and they were louder, didn't bug me for the sake of keeping things cool.