Question CPU High with TOS - Replacement Options

[fishindamarket]

I don't play any games, only use my desktop for running thinkorswim trading platform. My CPU and Memory run extremely high during the trading day. Sometimse 100% on both and causing program to lag.
Not sure how to insert a video here to show Task Manager?

Anyways, I am thinking of buying a new CPU to try and help fix this. Assuming I would need a new motherboard too but hoping I can use the remaining hardware I have in my computer to keep costs down.

Suggestions on what CPU / Motherboard to look into?
Was looking at Ryzen 5800 x or 5950x processor and B550 or x570 motherboard.

My computer specs:

GPU's - 2x RX580 to power the 5 monitors.
PSU -Corsair RM750 W ATX 80 Plus Gold
Motherboard - MicrostarZ370-A Pro
CPU - Intel Core i7-8700
32GB RAM

thank you!

 

[Zerk2012]

I don't play any games, only use my desktop for running thinkorswim trading platform. My CPU and Memory run extremely high during the trading day. Sometimse 100% on both and causing program to lag.
Not sure how to insert a video here to show Task Manager?

Anyways, I am thinking of buying a new CPU to try and help fix this. Assuming I would need a new motherboard too but hoping I can use the remaining hardware I have in my computer to keep costs down.

Suggestions on what CPU / Motherboard to look into?
Was looking at Ryzen 5800 x or 5950x processor and B550 or x570 motherboard.

My computer specs:

GPU's - 2x RX580 to power the 5 monitors.
PSU -Corsair RM750 W ATX 80 Plus Gold
Motherboard - MicrostarZ370-A Pro
CPU - Intel Core i7-8700
32GB RAM

thank you!

If your running out of memory then you need more of that also.

 

[drea.drechsler]

... Assuming I would need a new motherboard too but hoping I can use the remaining hardware I have in my computer to keep costs down.

Suggestions on what CPU / Motherboard to look into?
Was looking at Ryzen 5800 x or 5950x processor and B550 or x570 motherboard.
....

EDIT added:
Was reading about it and from what I've seen ToS is written in interpretive Java and is pretty much prone to laggy performance when you start running several monitors, each with several active trading charts. I don't know how true all that is but these are people using very powerful computers with 12/16 core processors, 128GB RAM, 3080TI's. Even M1 Macs have difficulty. Most have altered how they use the program, some running fewer active trading charts with more static data on different monitors, some running a couple of computers with each doing something slightly different. One consensus is memory can help (up to a point) so maybe go to 64 or even 128GB if you can.

Original post resumes:
First: I assume you've tried the tricks for improving ToS performance and either they didn't work or it cramped your style a bit too much:

How to speed up Thinkorswim [ways]. | THINKORSWIM FREE

3 powerful and proven methods to speed up your TOS trading platform. 📈 We know what to do if Thinkorswim lagging and charts do not load.

www.toshelper.com

For those CPU's you'll definitely need new motherboard.

Your trading app is probably limited as much by memory and GPU performance as CPU performance. ToS says it's single-threaded and uses a GPU for data crunching, suggesting a more powerful GPU (RX 580 is pretty old) could help. It can also be a bit techy to set up correctly, and I can bet a dual-GPU arrangement just makes it more difficult. So with that in mind I'd suggest a 5800X CPU. But GPU is a bit harder since if it like's Nvidia's CUDA compute then that's an obvious choice.

You can most likely get by with a B550 but if you have need of a large amount of fast local storage then an X570 might be needed for more than two NVME's. But even 4TB NVME's are fairly cheap now so two provide a massive 8TB of fast local storage.

Be sure to select a board (either X570 or B550 such/as Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite v2) with a 2nd accessible PCIe x 16 slot if you still go with 2 GPU's. That's not really all that difficult if picking full-size ATX but keep in mind the 2nd slot will most likely be wired for PCIe x 4 operation only, which should not be a problem in your application.

But first thing would be to try checking your ToS set up and some of the above performance improvement tips if you haven't yet. Then first upgrade your dual GPU to a single with enough memory and DP ports to string on as many monitors as you need. You can daisy chain DP with the right monitors, making it's use desirable for trading work stations and eliminating the need for a 2nd GPU which just complicates setting it up. Just what it works best with, though, I can't say. I'd ask other people in the trading community what they use and works best for this app. Another good thing about upgrading GPU first is it can be moved to a new motherboard with no problems.

 

[geofelt]

Do you have a budget?

The strongest cpu upgrade that your motherboard would support would be a I9-9900KS:

Z370-A PRO | Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design | MSI Global

MSI Z370-A PRO gaming motherboard's AUDIO BOOST can reward your ears with studio grade sound quality for the most immersive audio experience, with leading heatsink design, for maximum cooling, EZ Debug LED can be easiest way to troubleshoot

www.msi.com

It sells used on ebay for $400 or so and will need a strong cpu cooler.
I do not recommend that.

Your I7-8700 has 12 processing threads with a passmark performance rating of 13078.
That is when all processing threads are fully busy.
TOS, through is a single threaded app so the relevant rating would be 2748.
The 9900KS has 16 processing threads and a rating of 19535, and the single thread rating is 3041
Seems to me that a 10% improvement is not much worth it.

To do better requires a motherboard change.
The ryzen 5800X has 16 threads and a rating of 28433/3492.
The 5950x has 32 threads and a rating of 46172/3500.

The strongest Intel processor would be a I9-14900K
32 threads and a rating of 60672/4758

If your TOS app is important for your livelihood, consider a 14900k.
A I5-14600K would have 20 threads and a rating of 40394/4294.

Note that I3/I5/I7/I9 no longer mean what they used to, namely the number of cores and hyperthreading.


You would need a lga1700 motherboard and a Z790 or B760 based motherboard'
They come in DDR4 and DDR5 flavors.
Performance is comparable.
With a ddr4 version motherboard, you could reuse your ram.
Ryzen is picky about ram, your ram may or may not be transportable.

Ram usage is hard to figure out.
Windows keeps unused code in ram in anticipation of quick reuse.
It always looks full.
To see if you are truly short of ram. go to task manager and open resource manager.
Select memory tab and look at the hard fault per second column.
If you see anything more than zero, you have hard faults ans added ram would be in order.

What are your 5 monitors and what inputs do they take?

 

[fishindamarket]

I'm starting to think there's an issue with my computer's memory and maybe a setting or settings i need to change. Just now before running anything with only my startup apps running memory was sitting around 20%. I don't think that seems right. Any ideas on BIOS settings to check or anything else>

 

[geofelt]

Do not get confused about ram.
Your observation will be typical.
Windows manages what it has very well.
At startup, many apps will get loaded and then go idle until they are needed.
In the event that one might be needed, windows will keep them in ram for instant availability.
Unused apps will get pushed out in favor of more active code.
A high replacement activity will show up as hard page faults.
If the amount of ram is sufficient, you should see the hard fault page rate to be zero.

If you are not happy with your performance, look to a cpu upgrade concentrating on single thread performance.
Run a simple cpu-Z bench test on your i7-8700
You should see a single thread performance rating of about 511
Here are some other scores:

CPU-Z Benchmark for Intel Core i7-14700K (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - December 2023

valid.x86.fr

 

[Blackink]

I run ThinkorSwim on my PC with 4 - 27" monitors and several charts. Look at my set up below where my signature is to see my specs on the PC I use. My CPU is overclocked to 4.2.
I have no problems loading up charts, typing in and loading up stock symbols. I trade stocks only, no options or ETF's
When you load up the window to log onto thinkorswim, click on the gear in the lower left of that window before you log in. It's there that you can change/increase memory usage.
Increase the Memory Usage and see if that helps.

The other thing that might help is once you're logged onto TOS, click on the Help tab on the main window and click on Collect garbage tab towards the right of that screen. That is suppose to clear the software of any "loose" garbage in the system and remove it. I do that every time I log on.
You can also see how much Memory you're using and what free memory is available in the window too.

Good luck with that and good luck in your trading.

p.s. have you switched over to Schwab yet or are you still with TD Ameritrade?

 

[fishindamarket]

Do you have a budget?

The strongest cpu upgrade that your motherboard would support would be a I9-9900KS:

Z370-A PRO | Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design | MSI Global

MSI Z370-A PRO gaming motherboard's AUDIO BOOST can reward your ears with studio grade sound quality for the most immersive audio experience, with leading heatsink design, for maximum cooling, EZ Debug LED can be easiest way to troubleshoot

www.msi.com

It sells used on ebay for $400 or so and will need a strong cpu cooler.
I do not recommend that.

Your I7-8700 has 12 processing threads with a passmark performance rating of 13078.
That is when all processing threads are fully busy.
TOS, through is a single threaded app so the relevant rating would be 2748.
The 9900KS has 16 processing threads and a rating of 19535, and the single thread rating is 3041
Seems to me that a 10% improvement is not much worth it.

To do better requires a motherboard change.
The ryzen 5800X has 16 threads and a rating of 28433/3492.
The 5950x has 32 threads and a rating of 46172/3500.

The strongest Intel processor would be a I9-14900K
32 threads and a rating of 60672/4758

If your TOS app is important for your livelihood, consider a 14900k.
A I5-14600K would have 20 threads and a rating of 40394/4294.

Note that I3/I5/I7/I9 no longer mean what they used to, namely the number of cores and hyperthreading.


You would need a lga1700 motherboard and a Z790 or B760 based motherboard'
They come in DDR4 and DDR5 flavors.
Performance is comparable.
With a ddr4 version motherboard, you could reuse your ram.
Ryzen is picky about ram, your ram may or may not be transportable.

Ram usage is hard to figure out.
Windows keeps unused code in ram in anticipation of quick reuse.
It always looks full.
To see if you are truly short of ram. go to task manager and open resource manager.
Select memory tab and look at the hard fault per second column.
If you see anything more than zero, you have hard faults ans added ram would be in order.

What are your 5 monitors and what inputs do they take?

Thanks for the detailed breakdown @geofelt .
My 5x monitors are 4k - 60fps. They use displayport and HDMI inputs.

This is the new build I'm looking to do. After more research I feel upgrading the CPU and Memory should fix the issue. I'm just not sure on the GPU and if I need this high end since I don't game and only use it for day trading. I'm wondering if I can save money on a cheaper GPU but not lose performance - and still run 4x monitors off the GPU.
I'll run the 5th monitor with the onboard integrated graphics.

thoughts on this build?

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vwGWmD

CPU: Intel Core i9-14900K 3.2 GHz 24-Core Processor ($575.66 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360 A-RGB 48.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($132.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($313.55 @ MemoryC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB 96 GB (2 x 48 GB) DDR5-5600 CL40 Memory ($264.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($145.48 @ Adorama)
Video Card: Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti 12 GB Video Card ($829.99 @ B&H)
Case: NZXT H9 Flow ATX Mid Tower Case ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000e (2023) 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2707.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-12-31 12:05 EST-0500

 

[fishindamarket]

I run ThinkorSwim on my PC with 4 - 27" monitors and several charts. Look at my set up below where my signature is to see my specs on the PC I use. My CPU is overclocked to 4.2.
I have no problems loading up charts, typing in and loading up stock symbols. I trade stocks only, no options or ETF's
When you load up the window to log onto thinkorswim, click on the gear in the lower left of that window before you log in. It's there that you can change/increase memory usage.
Increase the Memory Usage and see if that helps.

The other thing that might help is once you're logged onto TOS, click on the Help tab on the main window and click on Collect garbage tab towards the right of that screen. That is suppose to clear the software of any "loose" garbage in the system and remove it. I do that every time I log on.
You can also see how much Memory you're using and what free memory is available in the window too.

Good luck with that and good luck in your trading.

p.s. have you switched over to Schwab yet or are you still with TD Ameritrade?

what resolution are your monitors? does the GPU run all 4x off of it?
Mine are 4k - 60fps so wonder if this card would still be fine for them and running all the memory intensive processes from TOS.
I do like the price difference from your GPU to the 1070 Ti that I was looking at.

 

[fishindamarket]

EDIT added:
Was reading about it and from what I've seen ToS is written in interpretive Java and is pretty much prone to laggy performance when you start running several monitors, each with several active trading charts. I don't know how true all that is but these are people using very powerful computers with 12/16 core processors, 128GB RAM, 3080TI's. Even M1 Macs have difficulty. Most have altered how they use the program, some running fewer active trading charts with more static data on different monitors, some running a couple of computers with each doing something slightly different. One consensus is memory can help (up to a point) so maybe go to 64 or even 128GB if you can.

Original post resumes:
First: I assume you've tried the tricks for improving ToS performance and either they didn't work or it cramped your style a bit too much:

How to speed up Thinkorswim [ways]. | THINKORSWIM FREE

3 powerful and proven methods to speed up your TOS trading platform. 📈 We know what to do if Thinkorswim lagging and charts do not load.

www.toshelper.com

For those CPU's you'll definitely need new motherboard.

Your trading app is probably limited as much by memory and GPU performance as CPU performance. ToS says it's single-threaded and uses a GPU for data crunching, suggesting a more powerful GPU (RX 580 is pretty old) could help. It can also be a bit techy to set up correctly, and I can bet a dual-GPU arrangement just makes it more difficult. So with that in mind I'd suggest a 5800X CPU. But GPU is a bit harder since if it like's Nvidia's CUDA compute then that's an obvious choice.

You can most likely get by with a B550 but if you have need of a large amount of fast local storage then an X570 might be needed for more than two NVME's. But even 4TB NVME's are fairly cheap now so two provide a massive 8TB of fast local storage.

Be sure to select a board (either X570 or B550 such/as Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite v2) with a 2nd accessible PCIe x 16 slot if you still go with 2 GPU's. That's not really all that difficult if picking full-size ATX but keep in mind the 2nd slot will most likely be wired for PCIe x 4 operation only, which should not be a problem in your application.

But first thing would be to try checking your ToS set up and some of the above performance improvement tips if you haven't yet. Then first upgrade your dual GPU to a single with enough memory and DP ports to string on as many monitors as you need. You can daisy chain DP with the right monitors, making it's use desirable for trading work stations and eliminating the need for a 2nd GPU which just complicates setting it up. Just what it works best with, though, I can't say. I'd ask other people in the trading community what they use and works best for this app. Another good thing about upgrading GPU first is it can be moved to a new motherboard with no problems.

Thanks for the info @drea.drechsler
See my new build I'm considering in the post above to @geofelt . Thoughts on this build?

 

[Blackink]

what resolution are your monitors? does the GPU run all 4x off of it?
Mine are 4k - 60fps so wonder if this card would still be fine for them and running all the memory intensive processes from TOS.
I do like the price difference from your GPU to the 1070 Ti that I was looking at.

1920 x 1080
Yes all 4 monitors run off from the graphics card.
I hope your trades are profitable and your losses small in the new year!!