Question CPU pairing with a 3070 Ti ?

[DMW888]

Bit of a quandary here.

Wanting to buy a 3070ti, but not sure about CPU bottlenecks. Calculators (as people say) are seemingly useless, so I'm not sure what to do.

Current System
CPU: i5-8500
GPU: 1070ti Gigabyte Aorus
Motherboard: Asus B360M plus gaming
RAM: 16GB DDR 4 2666hz Corsair
PSU: Seasonic 650W Gold.
Monitor: 3440x1440 (21:9)

Purpose: Resource heavy games like Returnal, Cyberpunk 2077 etc played at Monitors native resolution of 3K at highest possible settings.

FPS target: 60-144.
60 is good, if more possible then I won't cap it, but not essential.

The 8500 with 1070ti running Returnal shows 100% GPU with the CPU bouncing between 45-88% giving an average of 52 FPS at medium/high settings, so that's fine, but with 3070ti, not so sure.

If I upgrade, it's possible to throw in a higher level 8th/9th gen CPU, but saw there wasn't much performance increase from the 8500 on compare sites. I don't want to go the 9900 because of the high TDP, preferring to have another 65W to avoid possibly having to upgrade my PSU.

That leaves getting an i7-9700 or upgrading my MB to perhaps LGA1200~ to allow sth stronger, but even then I've no idea what would leave a little CPU headroom alongside the 3070ti in that socket category as I don't have much to spend.

What's the best route here?

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

With all options mentioned above, you seem to be dialed in with the i7-9700. With that stated, how old is the PSU in your build? Seasonic is the brand of the unit while 650W is the advertised wattage of the unit and Gold is the advertised 80+ efficiency rating. What is the model of the unit?

 

[Eximo]

LGA1200 would not be worthwhile.

LGA1700 is for 12th and 13th gen and a mid-range chip there gets you much more than a 9900 or 9700 or pretty much anything from from 10th and 11th gen.

You also have relatively slow DDR4, and DDR5 is basically affordable now.

I would probably hold out for the RTX4070 to come out rather than buying a 3070Ti. April 13th is the expected launch date. If it lands anywhere near $600 it should be the better purchase option.

650W would be pretty marginal for a 3070Ti, that is a 290W part. Add even your 65W watt target CPU plus the rest of the system you are going to be sitting pretty high on the percent usage of your PSU. It would be okay, but the higher temps you run in a power supply the shorter the lifespan.


So in short:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($247.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($43.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B760 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($179.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory ($106.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 TT Premium 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $718.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-07 09:21 EDT-0400

 

[geofelt]

Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run theis test:

Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

Run the cpu-Z bench test and look at the single thread performance rating.
You should see about 474 for your 8500:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/b3m04b
A 9700 upgrade would not be worth much.

 

[DMW888]

Welcome to the forums

Thank you.
My PSU is the 'Core GX-650, [SSR-650LX], it's 2 years old now.

much more than a 9900 or 9700 or pretty much anything from from 10th and 11th gen.

I just noticed this after checking out the 13400F, and the price where I am is similar to previous gen versions surprisingly.

I'd no idea that the 4070 was landing soon. I would have preferred the 4070 ti which is available, but it's about$940 - 350 more than the 3070ti atm, so I might take your advice and wait a bit.

With current setup, according to the PSU calc at Outervision:
Load Wattage:340 W Recommended PSU Wattage:390 W ~ 600W
Swapping in a 3070 ti:
Load Wattage:453 W Recommended PSU Wattage:503 W ~ 650W

I didn't consider more headroom=longevity
Many good points made, appreciated!

A 9700 upgrade would not be worth much.

Yes. Seems odd to me that chips between the 8500 and 9900 show relatively minor increases in performance (apart from the extra cores and notwithstanding HT).

 

[DMW888]

I've decided to go with the 13400F, Asus tuf B760m plus gaming replacing the same series B360m board I currently have, and after a small windfall in my new apartment renovation costs, a 4070ti. Going to upgrade PSU, but stick with Seasonic.
Thermaltake in my opinion is pretty poor after all the trouble my last TT 550W Gold PSU caused my 1070ti with its slightly loose 6+2 pin power plug causing black screen and 100% fans issue frustrating me for over a year. The Seasonic fit perfectly tight with zero wiggle fixing this problem and have had no issues with it being a core series.

 

[geofelt]

Your psu is of excellent quality and I would plan on using it so long as the power is adequate.
Psu calculators are deadly accurate.... IF you know the correct inputs.
Who knows about capacitor ageing or, your future needs.
I think a chart like this is useful:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
Some graphics cards will have factory overclocks. 3070ti, for example normally needs only one 8 pin connector. But a factory overclocked version might need two 8 pin or an 8 and a 6.
Use the 650w psu so long as it runs whatever card you have.
Seasonic wattage is, I think, conservatively rated.
Protections are good so if it gets overloaded, it should not damage parts.

When it comes time to replace, go big.
Modern graphics cards can have high power spikes, well past nominal load.

There may be minimal incremental costs to going from 750w/850w/950w.
The psu will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of the max power.

On Newegg, a I5-13400 costs some $23 more than the F version.
I think that is cheap insurance in the event that you have a discrete graphics card issue. I know it has saved me once.

As a plus, the non F version has quick sync which may be of use to you:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...uick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html

 

[Avro Arrow]

There's something far more important to ask:

"Why on EARTH would you want a 3070 Ti?"

The RTX 3070 Ti costs $640USD at minimum. Why would you pay that kind of money for a card as weak and VRAM-starved as the RTX 3070 Ti? I have to assume that you haven't done any of your homework because anyone who actually does the research (like you SHOULD do for a purchase like this) looks at the 3070 Ti and says "NO F'N WAY!".

If you want to spend that kind of money, the RX 6950 XT is the way to go. It's 36% faster than the RTX 3070 Ti, has literally double the VRAM and costs only $10 more at $650USD!

I can't tell you enough just how bad a decision it would be for you to purchase an RTX 3070 Ti. I would even say to get an RTX 3060 before the 3070 Ti because at least it has 12GB of VRAM. Right now, the 8GB of VRAM given to cards like the RTX 3060 Ti, RTX 3070 and RTX 3070 Ti is already causing problems in games, TODAY:

(Credit to Steve Walton at Techspot - Link)

Look at how stuttery the 8GB cards are in The Last of Us Part 1 (and this is just at 1080p Ultra)! Cards that are weaker like the A770 and RTX 3060 are playable while the 8GB cards aren't. Just look at the performance difference between the RTX 3070 Ti and the RX 6950 XT while you're at it and remember that it's only $10 more expensive. The performance difference between them is so wide that the RTX 3070 Ti can't even beat the RX 6950 XT with ray-tracing turned on!

This is not an isolated situation either. The first game in which 8GB was a hindrance was Far Cry 6 which came out 1½ years ago.

Now, I only showed you this to prove how bad a choice the RTX 3070 Ti would be for you. Your CPU would be a major bottleneck but only at 1080p. With the RTX 3070 Ti, you would be forced to use 1080p in some situations, a limitation that doesn't exist with the RX 6950 XT. You'd be able to play at much higher resolutions with the RX 6950 XT which would help lift the gaming burden from the CPU. Then there's the fact that the 8GB RTX 3070 Ti will possibly be almost completely unusable 2-3 years from now while the 16GB RX 6950 XT will still be usable 5-6 years from now.

You don't have to take my word for it. The evidence is literally ALL OVER the internet:

Daniel Owen:

^Daniel's comparison is definitive The RX 6950 XT wins easily.^

Hardware Unboxed / TechSpot (Steve Walton):

^Steve proves that 8GB is not enough VRAM these days^

The ONLY WAY that I would ever recommend the RTX 3070 Ti would be if you were getting it for free. I would even recommend the RX 6500 XT over that card because at least the RX 6500 XT is cheap, even if you get the 8GB model instead of the 4GB model.

I'll say it again, the RTX 3070 Ti is literally THE WORST video card to buy at this point in time, period. When a card is such a bad deal that it makes a card as bad as the RX 6500 XT look decent, you shouldn't even consider buying it. I would literally recommend ANY other video card on the market today over the RTX 3070 Ti, even the Intel Arcs because it really is that bad.

I'm not trying to be harsh here, I'm trying to stop you from making the most bone-headed mistake that a gamer can make today.

 

[DMW888]

Your psu is of excellent quality and I would plan on using it so long as the power is adequate.
Psu calculators are deadly accurate.... IF you know the correct inputs.
Who knows about capacitor ageing or, your future needs.
I think a chart like this is useful:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
Some graphics cards will have factory overclocks. 3070ti, for example normally needs only one 8 pin connector. But a factory overclocked version might need two 8 pin or an 8 and a 6.
Use the 650w psu so long as it runs whatever card you have.
Seasonic wattage is, I think, conservatively rated.
Protections are good so if it gets overloaded, it should not damage parts.

When it comes time to replace, go big.
Modern graphics cards can have high power spikes, well past nominal load.

There may be minimal incremental costs to going from 750w/850w/950w.
The psu will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of the max power.

On Newegg, a I5-13400 costs some $23 more than the F version.
I think that is cheap insurance in the event that you have a discrete graphics card issue. I know it has saved me once.

As a plus, the non F version has quick sync which may be of use to you:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...uick-sync-video/quick-sync-video-general.html

Thanks for the chart Geofelt.

The factory overclocks were indeed sth to consider. Personally they're just a sales gimmick though so I try and avoid them where possible. If I ever wanted to overclock my GPU it would be a lot higher than the small amount they add in.

I agree with everything you've discerningly written here. Good point about quick sync too.

Cheers!

 

[geofelt]

Used to be that you could get something for nothing by overclocking.
No more.
Today, parts are binned and the better chips are used in higher performing processors or factory overclocked cards.
You could get lucky a little, but do not count on it.
On graphics cards, you probably get fair value in all but the maximal factory overclocked cards.

 

[KyaraM]

Thank you.
My PSU is the 'Core GX-650, [SSR-650LX], it's 2 years old now.


I just noticed this after checking out the 13400F, and the price where I am is similar to previous gen versions surprisingly.

I'd no idea that the 4070 was landing soon. I would have preferred the 4070 ti which is available, but it's about$940 - 350 more than the 3070ti atm, so I might take your advice and wait a bit.

With current setup, according to the PSU calc at Outervision:
Load Wattage:340 W Recommended PSU Wattage:390 W ~ 600W
Swapping in a 3070 ti:
Load Wattage:453 W Recommended PSU Wattage:503 W ~ 650W

I didn't consider more headroom=longevity
Many good points made, appreciated!


Yes. Seems odd to me that chips between the 8500 and 9900 show relatively minor increases in performance (apart from the extra cores and notwithstanding HT).

With a 4070 you wouldn't need a 750W PSU, honestly. The new Ada cards are very efficient, I rarely see more than 190W average on my 4070Ti, when it is rated 285W; the 4070 is a 200W part and should be even more efficient. I managed to OC it as well despite being a reference clock model. 2910MHz and +1000 VRAM isn't too bad for a reasonable, not oberdone OC I think. They aren't quite as happy to undervolt, though, sadly...

 

[Ar558]

To be honest if you are going for high frame rates on relatively high - res monitors in Cyberpunk, you would want minimum 12th Gen to get the max performance. You are basically asking for the most demanding Gaming task out there so any upgrade to either CPU or GPU would help but I wouldn't wan to go below a 12600K or 13400K really.