CPU Upgrade vs 1080ti?

[BlackAzrael]

I am thinking of upgrading once again, and right now not entirely sure on what I should choose between a cpu upgrade or a 1080ti.

First of all, here are my specs:
CPU: i5-3570k
GPU: 2 x Gigabyte G1 Gaming GeForce 970
RAM: 2 x 8GB Ballistix DDR3 1600Mhz
PSU: Thermaltake 850 Watts (can't quite remember the exact model)
MOBO: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H
CPU Fan: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO

I game using a 1080p 144Hz monitor, and if I can, I also use Dynamic Super Resolution when framerate allows depending on the game. I play a lot of Witcher 3 still to this day (modded mind you), which I know is a more CPU demanding game and one of the reasons for this dilemma.

So I am either thinking of getting a 6th or 7th gen CPU (most likely 6700k or 7700k) if I am to go this route but If I was to get a 1080ti I would wait for the manufacturer custom cards.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: Forgot to add the motherboard and CPU cooler sorry!

 

[TechyInAZ]

If your modding, I'd go with a CPU upgrade first. 970 SLI should be very close to 1070 performance, on 1080P 144hz, that is quite a lot of performance still.

 

[captaincharisma]

yea, i think the 3570K would create a bottleneck with a 1070. yopu may be able to get away with it if you overclock it a little but hard to know since you never mentioned what motherboard you have

 

[RobCrezz]

If you have a Z77 motherboard, I would get a good CPU cooler and overclock it first. Should see a good boost if you overclock to around 4.5Ghz, and will show you if your cpu is much of a bottleneck.

 

[Gallarian]

At 1080p, even an overclocked 7700k bottlenecks the 1080ti in many games (crazy I know), including the Witcher 3.

The 1080ti is really aimed at 1440p @ 100hz+ or 4K @ 60hz.

If I were you, I'd stick with my 970 SLI for now and build a new Coffee Lake system in 2H of this year. In the mean time, you should look into overclocking if you haven't already.

 

[BlackAzrael]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

 

[captaincharisma]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

if you were always scared of overclocking then why did you get the more expensive K version of that CPU. that's the only reason to get a CPU like the 3570K

 

[BlackAzrael]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

if you were always scared of overclocking then why did you get the more expensive K version of that CPU. that's the only reason to get a CPU like the 3570K

I bought this a while ago, it didn't really come to my mind then.

 

[SgtScream]

If your modding, I'd go with a CPU upgrade first. 970 SLI should be very close to 1070 performance, on 1080P 144hz, that is quite a lot of performance still.

I agree with this. Not only that, if you purchase a 1080 ti and run it at 1080p resolution, that gpu with out a doubt will crush your cpu at a constant 100% load. Those gpu's were designed to push pixels at 4k resolutions and shouldn't be ran at standard 1080p hd resolutions. If you'd like to stick with 1080p and wish to only upgrade your graphics card, stick with a gtx 1070.

 

[king3pj]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

Look at it this way, you are already considering a CPU upgrade so what is the worst that could happen? If you damaged your CPU you would just go through with the upgrade you were already considering. The benefit is a free performance boost and there isn't much downside.

Overclocking really isn't that dangerous as long as you don't increase the voltage too much and you keep an eye on your temperatures after you are done. if you follow a written guide or watch a reputable youtube guide for your hardware it's a pretty easy process.

 

[spdragoo]

http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page5.html

Witcher 3 seems to have no problems with an i5 (even Ivy Bridge), so I'd say it's probably more on the GPU's side -- & even at 1080p, the GTX 970 (like most GPUs tested then) really struggles to get near or above 50FPS on High or Ultra quality settings.

You really want a GPU upgrade, to be honest. A GTX 1070 would work really, really well (http://www.techspot.com/review/1182-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070/page2.html); even though an RX 480 or GTX 1060 would show some improvement over your current GPU

 

[Gallarian]

http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page5.html

Witcher 3 seems to have no problems with an i5 (even Ivy Bridge)

Heres the difference when you take away the GPU bottleneck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylVCItVhS4

~30fps increase with an i7 over an i5 in Witcher 3.

So if OP went for a 1080ti, that Ivy i5 would definitely be holding things back.

 

[Phaaze88]

http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page5.html

Witcher 3 seems to have no problems with an i5 (even Ivy Bridge)

Heres the difference when you take away the GPU bottleneck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylVCItVhS4

~30fps increase with an i7 over an i5 in Witcher 3.

So if OP went for a 1080ti, that Ivy i5 would definitely be holding things back.

Especially playing at 1080p. But if the OP were to increase the resolution instead, more of the load would be pushed to the gpu instead. If going for the 1080ti, consider replacing the monitor for a higher res too.
I couldn't help but join in on this as I also have a 3570k (oc'd to 4.5). I'll find out how much of a bottleneck once the aftermarket 1080tis come out.

 

[BlackAzrael]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

Look at it this way, you are already considering a CPU upgrade so what is the worst that could happen? If you damaged your CPU you would just go through with the upgrade you were already considering. The benefit is a free performance boost and there isn't much downside.

Overclocking really isn't that dangerous as long as you don't increase the voltage too much and you keep an eye on your temperatures after you are done. if you follow a written guide or watch a reputable youtube guide for your hardware it's a pretty easy process.

That's just it, I don't know what is the worst that can happen when OC'ing a CPU. Is there a chance that it would damage other components besides the CPU? If not then I might be willing to try, though I don't know if the CPU cooler I got would be able to push it too much.

 

[RobCrezz]

I must admit I looked into overclocking but I am a little scared as I don't have any experience with that. It also seems like a huge wall of text for guides I've seen. I wouldn't want to fry my computer, I'm probably exaggerating but I dunno.

Look at it this way, you are already considering a CPU upgrade so what is the worst that could happen? If you damaged your CPU you would just go through with the upgrade you were already considering. The benefit is a free performance boost and there isn't much downside.

Overclocking really isn't that dangerous as long as you don't increase the voltage too much and you keep an eye on your temperatures after you are done. if you follow a written guide or watch a reputable youtube guide for your hardware it's a pretty easy process.

That's just it, I don't know what is the worst that can happen when OC'ing a CPU. Is there a chance that it would damage other components besides the CPU? If not then I might be willing to try, though I don't know if the CPU cooler I got would be able to push it too much.

No, you could only really harm the CPU - and even then its not very likely if you follow a guide.

 

[king3pj]

That's just it, I don't know what is the worst that can happen when OC'ing a CPU. Is there a chance that it would damage other components besides the CPU? If not then I might be willing to try, though I don't know if the CPU cooler I got would be able to push it too much.

As Rob said the only part that is really in danger from an overclock is the CPU. Even that isn't really dangerous if you stay within the safe voltage and temperature range for your CPU. The Z series motherboards and K series CPUs are built for overclocking.

I have the exact same cooler as you. The Hyper 212 EVO isn't the best cooler on the market but it is a very solid, budget air cooler. Using this cooler I have my i5-4690k overclocked from the stock 3.5GHz to 4.3GHz. My temps seem to max out at around 56 and typically average in the upper 40s after a few hours of gaming.

I should point out that 4.3GHz is a pretty modest overclock for a i5-4690k. Many people seem to be able to get these CPUs in the 4.5 to 4.7GHz range and a few lucky people get them higher than that but it's not going to happen with a Hyper 212 EVO. I wasn't able to get my overclock stable at 4.5GHz without going past the max recommended voltage in the guide I was reading. I did hit 4.4GHz stable but it was a pretty big voltage jump from where I was stable at 4.3GHz so I just bumped it back down.

The point of this long winded post is that you aren't going to set any overclocking records with that cooler but it's plenty for an average overclock that will provide a free performance boost in CPU heavy games.

 

[spdragoo]

http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page5.html

Witcher 3 seems to have no problems with an i5 (even Ivy Bridge)

Heres the difference when you take away the GPU bottleneck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylVCItVhS4

~30fps increase with an i7 over an i5 in Witcher 3.

So if OP went for a 1080ti, that Ivy i5 would definitely be holding things back.

First time I've ever heard of anyone claiming that a GTX 980 would cause a GPU bottleneck at 1080p resolutions. And whatever Digital Foundry's reputation may be, all I saw was in-game video from a single source that somehow claimed to be showing different FPS from 4 different PCs simultaneously, yet had zero information about the platforms beyond the CPU, clock speed, & RAM speed, but no information on the amount of RAM, which motherboard they were using, whether they used an SSD (SATA or M.2) or an HDD for the game storage...you know, the kind of information found in reputable benchmarks from sites like Tom's Hardware, Techspot, Anandtech, etc.

 

[BlackAzrael]

That's just it, I don't know what is the worst that can happen when OC'ing a CPU. Is there a chance that it would damage other components besides the CPU? If not then I might be willing to try, though I don't know if the CPU cooler I got would be able to push it too much.

As Rob said the only part that is really in danger from an overclock is the CPU. Even that isn't really dangerous if you stay within the safe voltage and temperature range for your CPU. The Z series motherboards and K series CPUs are built for overclocking.

I have the exact same cooler as you. The Hyper 212 EVO isn't the best cooler on the market but it is a very solid, budget air cooler. Using this cooler I have my i5-4690k overclocked from the stock 3.5GHz to 4.3GHz. My temps seem to max out at around 56 and typically average in the upper 40s after a few hours of gaming.

I should point out that 4.3GHz is a pretty modest overclock for a i5-4690k. Many people seem to be able to get these CPUs in the 4.5 to 4.7GHz range and a few lucky people get them higher than that but it's not going to happen with a Hyper 212 EVO. I wasn't able to get my overclock stable at 4.5GHz without going past the max recommended voltage in the guide I was reading. I did hit 4.4GHz stable but it was a pretty big voltage jump from where I was stable at 4.3GHz so I just bumped it back down.

The point of this long winded post is that you aren't going to set any overclocking records with that cooler but it's plenty for an average overclock that will provide a free performance boost in CPU heavy games.

Hmm fair enough then, I might just give it a shot afterall. Any simple guides out there that's not necessarily a giant wall of text?

 

[Gallarian]

First time I've ever heard of anyone claiming that a GTX 980 would cause a GPU bottleneck at 1080p resolutions.

Re-read my comment. I specifically mentioned the 1080ti (which the OP is thinking about getting) not a 980.

And whatever Digital Foundry's reputation may be, all I saw was in-game video from a single source that somehow claimed to be showing different FPS from 4 different PCs simultaneously, yet had zero information about the platforms..

That's because the video is part of a written up article on their website. All the information you require can be found there.

To the matter at hand though - as that video from the article shows, when you remove the GPU bottleneck (by using a 1080ti at 1080p), your CPU can have a significant impact on gaming performance. In Witcher 3 (the OPs current favourite game), the difference is up to 60fps - and thats between an i5 and i7 that both belong to the same Kabylake generation, let alone the difference between an Kaby i7 and an Ivy i5.

PS: Why are you being so aggressive? This is a help thread on a tech forum, not a cock-fight. If you don't like it when people contradict you and supply evidence, then maybe you're in the wrong place :\

 

[BlackAzrael]

First time I've ever heard of anyone claiming that a GTX 980 would cause a GPU bottleneck at 1080p resolutions.

Re-read my comment. I specifically mentioned the 1080ti (which the OP is thinking about getting) not a 980.

And whatever Digital Foundry's reputation may be, all I saw was in-game video from a single source that somehow claimed to be showing different FPS from 4 different PCs simultaneously, yet had zero information about the platforms..

That's because the video is part of a written up article on their website. All the information you require can be found there.

To the matter at hand though - as that video from the article shows, when you remove the GPU bottleneck (by using a 1080ti at 1080p), your CPU can have a significant impact on gaming performance. In Witcher 3 (the OPs current favourite game), the difference is up to 60fps - and thats between an i5 and i7 that both belong to the same Kabylake generation, let alone the difference between an Kaby i7 and an Ivy i5.

PS: Why are you being so aggressive? This is a help thread on a tech forum, not a cock-fight. If you don't like it when people contradict you and supply evidence, then maybe you're in the wrong place :\

Yeah I think that is what I am going to do, just going to try Overclocking my cpu and see how much I can get from this. If I can get a good boost I might get myself a water cpu cooler which would be my first water cooler ever so any tips and info is definitely welcome. And if not then I will probably go the cpu upgrade route. In which case, I would go with LGA 1151 as it seems to be the better choice vs LGA 2011, there's a lot more choices for components. Any recommendations for OC guide (currently JayTwoCents' video on it) or motherboard+ram recommendations would be appreciated.

Thank you for all the help so far guys, appreciate it!

 

[king3pj]

Just to be clear, the overclock might not make much difference with a 970 in most games. There is a decent chance that the 970 is the limiting factor in The Witcher 3.

The CPU overclock would make more of an impact if you upgraded to a 1070 or higher GPU.

Edit: I see that you have SLI 970s. I was thinking you only had one. In this case you can ignore this post. The overclock probably would help you see more FPS on that 144Hz monitor in an SLI 970 system.

 

[BlackAzrael]

Just to be clear, the overclock might not make much difference with a 970 in most games. There is a decent chance that the 970 is the limiting factor in The Witcher 3.

The CPU overclock would make more of an impact if you upgraded to a 1070 or higher GPU.

Edit: I see that you have SLI 970s. I was thinking you only had one. In this case you can ignore this post. The overclock probably would help you see more FPS on that 144Hz monitor in an SLI 970 system.

I've tried some SLI compatibility bits for the witcher 3 with nvidia inspector, one of them seems to have helped keep a higher average FPS, though I did notice that my CPU hovers from 95-100% load with about 80-90% gpu load most of the time during combat and even some exploration on horse.

So I do have the feeling OCing my CPU might actually get me some performance boost if I can pull it off that is.

 

[BlackAzrael]

So I've done some OC testing and am now at 4.2GHz. OCCT, cinebench and standard Intel Burn Test all ran fine for about 10-15 mins each, but prime95 crashed after a little over 30 minutes. It just said "Prime95 application stopped working" So I guess that's an instability? Max temperature was 80C and it was hovering between 75C-78C most of the time.

The only things I've changed for OCing is the multiplier to 42 and the vcore to static 1.200v. I haven't touched anything else including TurboBoost.
Also, I had tried 43 multiplier with 1.205v before the 4.2GHz and it just BSOD all the time after windows starts, restarted 3 times, it even locked up in the BIOS once.

Any tips?

 

[BlackAzrael]

So I don't know if I should really pursue this OCing anyway. I ran Prime95 again right after I posted and it BSOD'ed like 15 minutes in. It did help a little bit with the Witcher 3 but the boost is pretty minimal, like a couple FPSes maybe. It did help matching the load between CPU and GPU though but nothing really astonishing. In the past two hours I dropped it down to 4.0GHz and ran Prime95 for 2 hours and it was fine at max 77C so I might just leave it there and be content with that, I don't feel comfortable risking more to be honest. All these different voltages you can increase or decrease has me a little overwhelmed and confused even after reading a guide and watching some video tutorials.

I think I might just go the 1080ti route afterall if I didn't damage my CPU hopefully.

Also, I am really not sure why some of you keep saying that a card like this is overkill at 1080p. Funny enough, I was told the same thing when picking up my 970s and there are still some games I can't max out at a constant 60fps. Besides, I prefer having higher FPS than higher resolution, though I never tried higher except with DSR. I just don't really want to change my monitor that I bought only a year ago already.

 

[Phaaze88]

So I don't know if I should really pursue this OCing anyway. I ran Prime95 again right after I posted and it BSOD'ed like 15 minutes in. It did help a little bit with the Witcher 3 but the boost is pretty minimal, like a couple FPSes maybe. It did help matching the load between CPU and GPU though but nothing really astonishing. In the past two hours I dropped it down to 4.0GHz and ran Prime95 for 2 hours and it was fine at max 77C so I might just leave it there and be content with that, I don't feel comfortable risking more to be honest. All these different voltages you can increase or decrease has me a little overwhelmed and confused even after reading a guide and watching some video tutorials.

I think I might just go the 1080ti route afterall if I didn't damage my CPU hopefully.

Also, I am really not sure why some of you keep saying that a card like this is overkill at 1080p. Funny enough, I was told the same thing when picking up my 970s and there are still some games I can't max out at a constant 60fps. Besides, I prefer having higher FPS than higher resolution, though I never tried higher except with DSR. I just don't really want to change my monitor that I bought only a year ago already.

I'm pretty sure the reason your cpu is crashing is because the v-core is too low. You posted 1.2 in your previous post - I believe you can go as high as 1.35 before things get dicey. Mine is at 4.5 on 1.4 v-core(holy expletive, asus ai suite must be bugged, as I've been running that OC for years....).

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