Question CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD3

[velocci]

Hi all, I don't know if this is the best forum to post this in. I have a QNAP nas model TS-653D. I recently had a lightening strike close to my house which took out my TV and it seems the power supply of this nas. I'm lucky the nas itself didn't fry. I since then replaced the power supply. I'm thinking of getting this CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD3 UPS instead of a surge protector. CyberPower's site says the battery in it lasts about 14 minutes on a half load. that's probably not enough time for me to do a proper shutdown of the nas if the power goes out. but I saw on another site that says the battery lasts 21 minutes if a modem, router, PC, and hard drive are plugged in. I would be plugging in my nas, router and possibly switch to this. so i'm trying to get an idea of how long the battery lasts on it. does anyone have this model and how long does it last for you?

 

[kanewolf]

Hi all, I don't know if this is the best forum to post this in. I have a QNAP nas model TS-653D. I recently had a lightening strike close to my house which took out my TV and it seems the power supply of this nas. I'm lucky the nas itself didn't fry. I since then replaced the power supply. I'm thinking of getting this CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD3 UPS instead of a surge protector. CyberPower's site says the battery in it lasts about 14 minutes on a half load. that's probably not enough time for me to do a proper shutdown of the nas if the power goes out. but I saw on another site that says the battery lasts 21 minutes if a modem, router, PC, and hard drive are plugged in. I would be plugging in my nas, router and possibly switch to this. so i'm trying to get an idea of how long the battery lasts on it. does anyone have this model and how long does it last for you?

That UPS has a USB port. You can use that USB interface with the QNAP to monitor the UPS and automatically shut the NAS down.

 

[velocci]

That UPS has a USB port. You can use that USB interface with the QNAP to monitor the UPS and automatically shut the NAS down.

I don't understand. can you elaborate on this?

 

[kanewolf]

I don't understand. can you elaborate on this?

Here is a QNAP how to -- https://docs.qnap.com/operating-system/qts/5.0.x/en-us/configuring-the-ups-settings-2AD2FE5E.html
You put a USB cable between the port at the top of the UPS and your NAS. Then you configure the UPS monitor software on the NAS. When the UPS battery gets low it will automatically shut down the NAS. I wouldn't worry about network gear.

 

[velocci]

Yes I was reading up on CyberPower's site. I would have to install PowerPanel software on the NAS to do this. I'll take a look at the link you provided. thanks. but my problem still stands. I'm worried that once the power goes out and the nas is running on battery, the battery will not last long enough for the nas to do a shutdown. I recently went on vacation and before I left I did a shutdown of the nas. it was taking a long time for all the services to stop and for the nas to shutdown. definitely longer than 14 minutes. It might be cause I forgot to shutdown the VM that was running first, then shutdown the nas. but i'm not sure. I don't want to buy this UPS and then the battery dies before the nas shutsdown. that would defeat the purpose.

 

[USAFRet]

Yes I was reading up on CyberPower's site. I would have to install PowerPanel software on the NAS to do this. I'll take a look at the link you provided. thanks. but my problem still stands. I'm worried that once the power goes out and the nas is running on battery, the battery will not last long enough for the nas to do a shutdown. I recently went on vacation and before I left I did a shutdown of the nas. it was taking a long time for all the services to stop and for the nas to shutdown. definitely longer than 14 minutes. It might be cause I forgot to shutdown the VM that was running first, then shutdown the nas. but i'm not sure. I don't want to buy this UPS and then the battery dies before the nas shutsdown. that would defeat the purpose.

I have a QNAP.

Yes, it takes longer to shut down than a typical PC.

But 15 mins from the UPS should be sufficient.

 

[velocci]

15 minutes is not enough for my nas.

 

[kanewolf]

15 minutes is not enough for my nas.

Which model NAS? I have not experienced a NAS that requires that much time to shutdown.
Maybe there is some setting or option that is preventing it from shutting down in a reasonable time ...

 

[USAFRet]

15 minutes is not enough for my nas.

Testing just now:

QNAP TS-453a

4x drives...3x HDD 1x SATA SSD (system drive)

3 mins 53 sec from click the Shutdown in the console to "The server has been shut down".

YMMV

 

[velocci]

Which model NAS? I have not experienced a NAS that requires that much time to shutdown.
Maybe there is some setting or option that is preventing it from shutting down in a reasonable time ...

I have the TS-653D. I think its the Virtualization Station app that takes a long time to close. that could be if you have a VM running. if you have one running, do a shutdown of your nas with your VM still running and see how long it takes.

 

[USAFRet]

I have the TS-653D. I think its the Virtualization Station app that takes a long time to close. that could be if you have a VM running. if you have one running, do a shutdown of your nas with your VM still running and see how long it takes.

Yes, that could be it.

But do actually time it.
For me, it feels like a lot more time than it actually is.

 

[kanewolf]

I have the TS-653D. I think its the Virtualization Station app that takes a long time to close. that could be if you have a VM running. if you have one running, do a shutdown of your nas with your VM still running and see how long it takes.

I found one thread -- https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=140784 that the slowdown was traced back to a specific service, Bazarr in that case.
I also see references to external devices mounted on the QNAP being an issue.

 

[USAFRet]

I also see references to external devices mounted on the QNAP being an issue.

Mine has 2x external pods.
4 bay TR-004 and 4 bay MediaSonic.
Both connected via USB.

 

[velocci]

so what model of UPS do you have, what do you have plugged into it and how long does the battery last?

 

[kanewolf]

Mine has 2x external pods.
4 bay TR-004 and 4 bay MediaSonic.
Both connected via USB.

The reference was for an NFS mount on the QNAP ...

 

[velocci]

I found one thread -- https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=140784 that the slowdown was traced back to a specific service, Bazarr in that case.
I also see references to external devices mounted on the QNAP being an issue.

I don't know what bazarr is but I don't use that. I'll have to do some testing of my nas and see which apps/services take a long time to shutdown and see if I really need them.

 

[kanewolf]

so what model of UPS do you have, what do you have plugged into it and how long does the battery last?

What you need to do is buy a power meter and measure your actual use. https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU You are guessing. After you have the measured wattage, then you can use the tables at the Cyberpower website to size your UPS. Personally, I have all APC Smart-UPS Online units -- https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/SURTA1500XL/apc-smartups-rt-1500va-120v-6x-nema-515r-outlets/ . These are double conversion units. They are older commercial units. They are available used on E-Bay. Buy, without the battery and buy a new battery pack.

 

[USAFRet]

The reference was for an NFS mount on the QNAP ...

Ah.

Still, shouldn't take that long.

 

[bill001g]

So in general unless you spend a lot more money you are not going to get a UPS that lasts much longer than the one you list.

Note the watt/VA rating is only 1 thing but a larger watt rating does not mean more time in a lot of cases.

The way you determine the time a UPS will last is look at the batteries it uses. Basically the more battery the longer it lasts.

So that UPS uses 2 12volt 9ah batteries. This is a extremely common setup for UPS in this size range so depending on how efficiently the UPS is built they will last more or less the same. If you were to buy a larger UPS that has say 4 batteries it would last twice as long.

A very rough way to calculate run time is Each battery can put out 108 watts for 1 hour so 2 batteries can do 216 watts.
You could roughly estimate it could put out 864 watts for 15 minutes. This would be a unrealistic best case ignoring lost does to conversion from DC to AC power. There is also the issue that pulling power faster than the 1hr rate reduce the total power the battery can produce and as the battery ages the total power goes down.

 

[velocci]

So in general unless you spend a lot more money you are not going to get a UPS that lasts much longer than the one you list.

Note the watt/VA rating is only 1 thing but a larger watt rating does not mean more time in a lot of cases.

The way you determine the time a UPS will last is look at the batteries it uses. Basically the more battery the longer it lasts.

So that UPS uses 2 12volt 9ah batteries. This is a extremely common setup for UPS in this size range so depending on how efficiently the UPS is built they will last more or less the same. If you were to buy a larger UPS that has say 4 batteries it would last twice as long.

A very rough way to calculate run time is Each battery can put out 108 watts for 1 hour so 2 batteries can do 216 watts.
You could roughly estimate it could put out 864 watts for 15 minutes. This would be a unrealistic best case ignoring lost does to conversion from DC to AC power. There is also the issue that pulling power faster than the 1hr rate reduce the total power the battery can produce and as the battery ages the total power goes down.

thanks but that's way to complicated for me. to me, if the UPS specs say it lasts 14 minutes on half load, then it lasts 14 minutes on half load.

 

[velocci]

so if a UPS has a rating of 1000 VA and the power meter measures 500 VA for a device, that means i'd be at half load if that device was plugged into the UPS?

 

[Ralston18]

@velocci

Reference:

"if the UPS specs say it lasts 14 minutes on half load, then it lasts 14 minutes on half load".

Very likely that those specs are based on the use of specific hardware in an ideal environment.

Not the real world..

 

[bill001g]

I would suspect 14 minutes is some ideal number but it might be valid. If you can run less than 1/2 load it will likely last longer. I have mulitple UPS but one I use to just run the fiber modem and a single router. This lets me have internet on my wifi device even after the other UPS run out of power for my desktop machines. That UPS has held just the modem and router more than 7 hours. I think the fan in the UPS uses more power then the stuff I have connected.

So first they are talking about 1/2 the 815 watts not 1/2 the 1300 va number.

In theory if there was some magically perfect power conversion the batteries themselves can produce 432 watts for 30 minutes. So even with a lot of overhead I can see it running a 400 watt load for 15 minutes.

 

[velocci]

I would suspect 14 minutes is some ideal number but it might be valid. If you can run less than 1/2 load it will likely last longer. I have mulitple UPS but one I use to just run the fiber modem and a single router. This lets me have internet on my wifi device even after the other UPS run out of power for my desktop machines. That UPS has held just the modem and router more than 7 hours. I think the fan in the UPS uses more power then the stuff I have connected.

So first they are talking about 1/2 the 815 watts not 1/2 the 1300 va number.

In theory if there was some magically perfect power conversion the batteries themselves can produce 432 watts for 30 minutes. So even with a lot of overhead I can see it running a 400 watt load for 15 minutes.

are you saying that if I get this UPS that I mentioned in the original post and I plug into it lets say my nas with 5 HDDs and 1 SSD, my router and my switch, the UPS battery would last longer than 14 minutes? in fact, if I plug my nas directly into my router, then I can remove the switch from the UPS and only have the nas and router plugged into the UPS.

 

[velocci]

here is something puzzling to me. On CyberPower's site, they list the CP1350AVRLCD3 as running for 14/4min on half/full load. but they have the CP1500AVRLCD3 running for 12/3min on half/full load. why would that be? could it be a misprint?