D-Link AC3200 Router + Unifi ac PRO ap vs. Negear Orbi

[xjeronx]

I've been searching online and although have found several topics on the matter, can't find a clear answer on the best wireless setup for my home. To give some background, I have a 3-level ~3000 sq. ft. home and have terrible wi-fi coverage issues. Although not extremely large, I have some major deadspots on multiple levels. For my current setup, I have a D-link AC3200 router on the main floor, with a D-Link AC2600 extender wired as an AP over ethernet on the upper level. This has removed the deadzone, but the hand-off is pretty terrible. I also have ethernet wired to most rooms in the house.

I have been looking into mesh systems and it sounds like the Netgear Orbi system is the best option. Because I have ethernet already wired, I am wondering if the Unifi ap's will better suit my needs. I understand that the main benefit of the Orbi and similar systems is an all-wireless setup. Netgear is supposedly also working on ethernet backhaul. I would love some advice and have a few main questions:

1) Can I use the Unifi software with my current router + Unifi ap's to manage the hand-off/roaming? Or will I have similar hand-off issues as with my current extender?
2) If not, would I need a different router?
3) Is the roaming on the Orbi system truly seamless?
4) Would there be any wireless performance differences between the 2 setups?

Thanks!

 

[vmfantom]

1. No, you'd need to use UniFi APs throughout AFAIK. And UniFi has a sad little workaround for roaming called Zero Handoff that forces all APs onto the same channel, which creates interference and makes the setup much less resilient if your neighbors broadcast on that channel.

2. Yep. Consider getting ASUS so you can update the firmware for DD-WRT/OpenWRT, Mullvad VPN, etc., and also you can improve the antenna gain with aftermarket antennas. ASUS RT-AC1900, 1900P, 3100, 3200, 66U B1, 68U, 86U, and 88U are comparable to the D-Link DIR-980L you have. Plus the 3100, 68U, 86U, and 88U have double the RAM.

3. Orbi doesn't appear to support 802.11k/r/v yet for BSS Fast Transitions when roaming, according to https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Big-Problems-with-Orbi-quot-handoff-quot-from-router-to/td-p/1249444 and https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Question-regarding-quot-fast-roaming-quot-in-the-version-2-0/td-p/1369081.

4. A mesh topology is a really bad idea indoors. You're adding extra network hops and there's no line of sight between the APs. The Orbi is best for throughput among meshed extenders but if you have terrible coverage in a 3,000 sq ft house then the building materials will mess with the Orbi throughput as well. If you really need seamless handoffs without paying for enterprise APs and PoE gateways then you might take a look at WoCA (wifi over coax).

 

[xjeronx]

1. No, you'd need to use UniFi APs throughout AFAIK. And UniFi has a sad little workaround for roaming called Zero Handoff that forces all APs onto the same channel, which creates interference and makes the setup much less resilient if your neighbors broadcast on that channel.

2. Yep. Consider getting ASUS so you can update the firmware for DD-WRT/OpenWRT, Mullvad VPN, etc., and also you can improve the antenna gain with aftermarket antennas. ASUS RT-AC1900, 1900P, 3100, 3200, 66U B1, 68U, 86U, and 88U are comparable to the D-Link DIR-980L you have. Plus the 3100, 68U, 86U, and 88U have double the RAM.

3. Orbi doesn't appear to support 802.11k/r/v yet for BSS Fast Transitions when roaming, according to https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Big-Problems-with-Orbi-quot-handoff-quot-from-router-to/td-p/1249444 and https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Question-regarding-quot-fast-roaming-quot-in-the-version-2-0/td-p/1369081.

4. A mesh topology is a really bad idea indoors. You're adding extra network hops and there's no line of sight between the APs. The Orbi is best for throughput among meshed extenders but if you have terrible coverage in a 3,000 sq ft house then the building materials will mess with the Orbi throughput as well. If you really need seamless handoffs without paying for enterprise APs and PoE gateways then you might take a look at WoCA (wifi over coax).

Thanks for the reply and I apologize for the slow response! I have a couple follow-up questions:

1) Will devices be able to smoothly transfer between the UniFi APs and my router? Or does the UniFi software only control their APs? When you say "sad little workaround", does this mean it's not very seamless? Should I expect any improvement in performance over my current extender setup?

2) Why do you say the ASUS over my D-Link router? I currently have DD-WRT installed on my router. Were their additional reasons besides this?

4) That's interesting and I will look into that more.

From what I'm gathering, it sounds like there really aren't many good options for consumer "seamless hand-off", besides possibly the WoCA solution which I'll look into. Thanks!

 

[vmfantom]

1. No, you'd need to use UniFi APs throughout AFAIK. And UniFi has a sad little workaround for roaming called Zero Handoff that forces all APs onto the same channel, which creates interference and makes the setup much less resilient if your neighbors broadcast on that channel.

2. Yep. Consider getting ASUS so you can update the firmware for DD-WRT/OpenWRT, Mullvad VPN, etc., and also you can improve the antenna gain with aftermarket antennas. ASUS RT-AC1900, 1900P, 3100, 3200, 66U B1, 68U, 86U, and 88U are comparable to the D-Link DIR-980L you have. Plus the 3100, 68U, 86U, and 88U have double the RAM.

3. Orbi doesn't appear to support 802.11k/r/v yet for BSS Fast Transitions when roaming, according to https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Big-Problems-with-Orbi-quot-handoff-quot-from-router-to/td-p/1249444 and https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Question-regarding-quot-fast-roaming-quot-in-the-version-2-0/td-p/1369081.

4. A mesh topology is a really bad idea indoors. You're adding extra network hops and there's no line of sight between the APs. The Orbi is best for throughput among meshed extenders but if you have terrible coverage in a 3,000 sq ft house then the building materials will mess with the Orbi throughput as well. If you really need seamless handoffs without paying for enterprise APs and PoE gateways then you might take a look at WoCA (wifi over coax).

Thanks for the reply and I apologize for the slow response! I have a couple follow-up questions:

1) Will devices be able to smoothly transfer between the UniFi APs and my router? Or does the UniFi software only control their APs? When you say "sad little workaround", does this mean it's not very seamless? Should I expect any improvement in performance over my current extender setup?

2) Why do you say the ASUS over my D-Link router? I currently have DD-WRT installed on my router. Were their additional reasons besides this?

4) That's interesting and I will look into that more.

From what I'm gathering, it sounds like there really aren't many good options for consumer "seamless hand-off", besides possibly the WoCA solution which I'll look into. Thanks!

1b. UniFi can't serve as a controller for a D-Link router, so you'd need to go through UniFi (or Engenius, etc.) for all the APs. There's a good overview from UniFi about fast roaming vs. zero handoff at https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004662107 and https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/205144590-UniFi-What-is-Zero-Handoff- , but in practice, you come across a good number of people that find handoffs don't work consistently.

2b. Those ASUS models have high transmit power like your DIR-890L, but you can upgrade the antennas to improve their gain (though that aspect isn't unique to ASUS). All things being equal, adding 3-5 dBi of gain could eliminate 10-20 feet's worth of dead zones, or make it past another layer of drywall, etc.

4b. At some point, it probably comes down to destructive vs. constructive interference between the APs, plus client support for certain handoff protocols, as to whether you'd enjoy the signal strength you're paying for with several UniFi APs or if you end up have problems with ping times. Just seems like a lot of money for something going into a home, but at least you could try it out during the return window since you already have Ethernet cabling in most rooms.

 

[bill001g]

Maybe you need to rethink how much you are really running about your house moving from wireless source to wireless source. You maybe spending huge amounts of effort to fix a minor inconvenience. How hard is it to disable and reenable the wifi to force it to switch.

I used to deal with this issue in a corporate environment where we spent huge money to buy expensive controller units from cisco or hp or others. Partially this was done because we were using a IP phone client and people would walk down the hall and talk. The need to use it for a pc moving was not as common, mostly people going to a conference room from their desk. Still it was not that big a issue to push the wifi off/on button on the laptop.

Unless you are willing to spend huge money and in some cases load software clients into your equipment you are not going to get a truly seamless hand off. The only way to actually do this is for the network to be in control like a cell tower does. With WiFi the end client is in control and they are very stupid.

 

[xjeronx]

Maybe you need to rethink how much you are really running about your house moving from wireless source to wireless source. You maybe spending huge amounts of effort to fix a minor inconvenience. How hard is it to disable and reenable the wifi to force it to switch.

I used to deal with this issue in a corporate environment where we spent huge money to buy expensive controller units from cisco or hp or others. Partially this was done because we were using a IP phone client and people would walk down the hall and talk. The need to use it for a pc moving was not as common, mostly people going to a conference room from their desk. Still it was not that big a issue to push the wifi off/on button on the laptop.

Unless you are willing to spend huge money and in some cases load software clients into your equipment you are not going to get a truly seamless hand off. The only way to actually do this is for the network to be in control like a cell tower does. With WiFi the end client is in control and they are very stupid.

I think you're right, and that's what I am gathering upon further looking into solutions. The reason I was asking was because the current "mesh" systems are advertised as a seamless solution to solve the router/extender hand-off issue, but it sounds like they don't work as well as they lead you to believe. The problem with manually switching the network like you suggest is that my devices don't always switch over and I lose connection. For example, when I walk upstairs to my bedroom where I have the extender, it takes about 5-10 min for it to connect to the extender. This is even with manually switching wifi on and off on my device. Once it's connected, I will show a full signal, but the connection drops in and out. I have the extender set up as the same SSID as the router connection so that they would switch automatically. I'm wondering if I should just change the SSID so that I can force a manual switch easier?

 

[Harro Penk]

1) Will devices be able to smoothly transfer between the UniFi APs and my router? Or does the UniFi software only control their APs? When you say "sad little workaround", does this mean it's not very seamless? Should I expect any improvement in performance over my current extender setup?

1. Unifi will treat your current route as nothing more than just a WAN address, so from that perspective there won't be any issues. The problem is that the routers you mention actually suck. I know this, 'cause I own them. To verify just how bad they suck, turn on QoS and watch your bandwidth, however much you think your ISP is sending you, trickle down to a tiny, tiny fraction of what you think you should be getting. Feel free to send 30 mb/s of your 50 mb/s connection to your xbox. If you test the speed, you'll be LUCKY if you get 5mb/s. That alone is a good test for just how good/bad a particular hardware router is. Asus, Netgear, and D-Link. All of them suck at this. Why? Because their processor chips are so sub-par in terms of performance, that the simple act of turning on QoS, i.e. a SOFTWARE SERVICE that necessarily needs to compare packets, routes, and timing, will just about BREAK YOUR NETWORK. Again, I'm not just tootin' something up your nose - I've owned several different vendor's hardware and I've cried about all of it.

If you're truly interested in setting up a network with low latency, then your best option is WIRED. Failing that, your next option is an enterprise system like Ubiquiti, using their UAP-PRO line (lite's are fine, stay away from their LR units). The trick is to try to wire ALL of your AP's to the same switch. If you can't do this, you will necessarily introduce more latency into your network, no matter how many or who's equipment you use. That's just a simple fact of physics.

You see, when you add more "mesh" units, aka: REPEATERS, to any network, they must necessarily function at the same frequency, the same bandwidth, and even broadcast using the same SSID. To put that in perspective and to illustrate why that's just a horrible, terrible thing you're then doing to your WiFi signal, imagine a rock concert.

There's a band on stage. Their instruments are all tweaked to "10", maximum sound. Every fan can hear their music. Awesome.

Now add a SECOND ROCK BAND, on the opposite side of the stadium. Same sound level. ... If you're close to one band, awesome. If you're close to the other one, still awesome. If you're in the middle......NOT SO MUCH.

Now add a THIRD ROCK BAND.... a fourth....etc. I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this.

And then, during this concert, add this wrinkle:

Your fans all want to talk back to their rockstars. While 3+ concerts are going on.

As it turns out, WiFi isn't just "one-way communication" when you download something. It's always, constantly, and during the entire time, a two-way communication thing. In fact, it's even just a hub type connection, where every device's tiny sounds (packets) interfere with the music of every other device.

If you set up a hotspot and a laptop with exactly the same specs (say: A top of the line MIMO system, capable of 1600 mb/s theoretical throughput), you'll get an average speed of X. Now add an identical laptop to that space. Suddenly, neither laptop can achieve X speed anymore. Now it's 1/2 X. Add a third. Now it's 1/3 X. And so on and on. But wait...it gets even better:

Imagine you then get out your old 3rd generation iPad. It doesn't do MIMO. It barely works with G speeds. Guess what, you now have 4 devices all "speeding along" at 1/20th of what your network supposedly can actually handle. How come?

Because WiFi systems, except for the very best, all will revert to the LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR in order to keep devices connected. They will downgrade speeds for all devices in order to ensure connectivity to all of them.

That's what Ubiquiti's RSSI value is about - you basically limit how much "bad reception" the AP is willing to put up with. If you have a device barely hanging on at the edges of what the radio signal can still connect to, it actually drags down the rest of the network - all the other devices will have speeds similar to what the "edge" device will be experiencing, even if they have a much stronger signal. RSSI is a "floor/ceiling" type limit, and it basically says: "don't bother connectin' 'less you got at least this much signal strength, so you don't bother the neighbors with your lousy signal".

The previous statements made regarding the zero-roaming issues are all true. Zero roaming is a "one-button" fix, which makes all the Ubiquiti antennas for a particular site collection use the same frequency, bandwidth, etc. and combines all the SSID's into just one set. It's also an absolutely TERRIBLE IDEA if you don't have all the antennas (aka: Access points) terminate on the same switch. Read the fine print. Zero roaming ONLY works if all devices are connected, VIA WIRE, back to a single switch. That's fairly easy in a commercial building with drop ceilings, but nearly impossible in a residential home (unless you're in the middle of ripping out walls). So, keep that in mind, please.

Regards & happy holidays.


P.S.: "Mesh" is just 2016+ jargon for "repeater". None of the "mesh" systems being sold, INCLUDING Ubiquiti's own "AMPLIFI", is an actual mesh unit. They all have a single point of failure, i.e. exactly what a true MESH network wouldn't have.

 

[xjeronx]

1) Will devices be able to smoothly transfer between the UniFi APs and my router? Or does the UniFi software only control their APs? When you say "sad little workaround", does this mean it's not very seamless? Should I expect any improvement in performance over my current extender setup?

1. Unifi will treat your current route as nothing more than just a WAN address, so from that perspective there won't be any issues. The problem is that the routers you mention actually suck. I know this, 'cause I own them. To verify just how bad they suck, turn on QoS and watch your bandwidth, however much you think your ISP is sending you, trickle down to a tiny, tiny fraction of what you think you should be getting. Feel free to send 30 mb/s of your 50 mb/s connection to your xbox. If you test the speed, you'll be LUCKY if you get 5mb/s. That alone is a good test for just how good/bad a particular hardware router is. Asus, Netgear, and D-Link. All of them suck at this. Why? Because their processor chips are so sub-par in terms of performance, that the simple act of turning on QoS, i.e. a SOFTWARE SERVICE that necessarily needs to compare packets, routes, and timing, will just about BREAK YOUR NETWORK. Again, I'm not just tootin' something up your nose - I've owned several different vendor's hardware and I've cried about all of it.

If you're truly interested in setting up a network with low latency, then your best option is WIRED. Failing that, your next option is an enterprise system like Ubiquiti, using their UAP-PRO line (lite's are fine, stay away from their LR units). The trick is to try to wire ALL of your AP's to the same switch. If you can't do this, you will necessarily introduce more latency into your network, no matter how many or who's equipment you use. That's just a simple fact of physics.

You see, when you add more "mesh" units, aka: REPEATERS, to any network, they must necessarily function at the same frequency, the same bandwidth, and even broadcast using the same SSID. To put that in perspective and to illustrate why that's just a horrible, terrible thing you're then doing to your WiFi signal, imagine a rock concert.

There's a band on stage. Their instruments are all tweaked to "10", maximum sound. Every fan can hear their music. Awesome.

Now add a SECOND ROCK BAND, on the opposite side of the stadium. Same sound level. ... If you're close to one band, awesome. If you're close to the other one, still awesome. If you're in the middle......NOT SO MUCH.

Now add a THIRD ROCK BAND.... a fourth....etc. I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this.

And then, during this concert, add this wrinkle:

Your fans all want to talk back to their rockstars. While 3+ concerts are going on.

As it turns out, WiFi isn't just "one-way communication" when you download something. It's always, constantly, and during the entire time, a two-way communication thing. In fact, it's even just a hub type connection, where every device's tiny sounds (packets) interfere with the music of every other device.

If you set up a hotspot and a laptop with exactly the same specs (say: A top of the line MIMO system, capable of 1600 mb/s theoretical throughput), you'll get an average speed of X. Now add an identical laptop to that space. Suddenly, neither laptop can achieve X speed anymore. Now it's 1/2 X. Add a third. Now it's 1/3 X. And so on and on. But wait...it gets even better:

Imagine you then get out your old 3rd generation iPad. It doesn't do MIMO. It barely works with G speeds. Guess what, you now have 4 devices all "speeding along" at 1/20th of what your network supposedly can actually handle. How come?

Because WiFi systems, except for the very best, all will revert to the LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR in order to keep devices connected. They will downgrade speeds for all devices in order to ensure connectivity to all of them.

That's what Ubiquiti's RSSI value is about - you basically limit how much "bad reception" the AP is willing to put up with. If you have a device barely hanging on at the edges of what the radio signal can still connect to, it actually drags down the rest of the network - all the other devices will have speeds similar to what the "edge" device will be experiencing, even if they have a much stronger signal. RSSI is a "floor/ceiling" type limit, and it basically says: "don't bother connectin' 'less you got at least this much signal strength, so you don't bother the neighbors with your lousy signal".

The previous statements made regarding the zero-roaming issues are all true. Zero roaming is a "one-button" fix, which makes all the Ubiquiti antennas for a particular site collection use the same frequency, bandwidth, etc. and combines all the SSID's into just one set. It's also an absolutely TERRIBLE IDEA if you don't have all the antennas (aka: Access points) terminate on the same switch. Read the fine print. Zero roaming ONLY works if all devices are connected, VIA WIRE, back to a single switch. That's fairly easy in a commercial building with drop ceilings, but nearly impossible in a residential home (unless you're in the middle of ripping out walls). So, keep that in mind, please.

Regards & happy holidays.


P.S.: "Mesh" is just 2016+ jargon for "repeater". None of the "mesh" systems being sold, INCLUDING Ubiquiti's own "AMPLIFI", is an actual mesh unit. They all have a single point of failure, i.e. exactly what a true MESH network wouldn't have.

Hi Harro, this was incredibly helpful! Your explanations made a lot of sense and I think i understand the issue a little better. Having said that, I have a couple follow-up questions just be clear, and I apologize if you already answered some of them and I missed it. Before getting to my questions, I'd like to point out that I have cat5 cable wired to most rooms in the house, so getting wired APs to each level shouldn't be an issue.

1) You mention that the routers I listed suck. Are you suggesting that the optimal setup is to ditch the router completely and run multiple APs wired from a switch? My current setup is a router on the main level, and I was thinking about putting APs on the upper floor and in the basement. Would it be better to just place an AP on each floor? If not, is there a better router that you would recommend?

2) You mention zero-roaming, and it sounds like the key here is wiring the APs to a switch, but I would just like to confirm that you are referring to a seamless hand-off when roaming between APs? As I mentioned in my original post, I have a D-Link extender set up as an AP using the same SSID. It is wired and not connected over WiFi. The problem I have is that it takes several minutes for my devices to establish connection when walking upstairs and this drop in connection is really annoying. Using Ubiquiti APs and their software, is it reasonable to expect that this would be a more seamless transition?

3) I'll be honest and admit that I am not an expert in this area, but these "high performance" routers boast tons of features for gaming, multiple users, etc. Would there be any noticeable drawbacks in ditching my router and switching over to the UAP PRO APs? I was unaware of the throttling issue that you mentioned, so from that standpoint, the Ubiquiti products sound great.

Thanks!

 

[Harro Penk]

1) You mention that the routers I listed suck. Are you suggesting that the optimal setup is to ditch the router completely and run multiple APs wired from a switch? My current setup is a router on the main level, and I was thinking about putting APs on the upper floor and in the basement. Would it be better to just place an AP on each floor? If not, is there a better router that you would recommend?

Wi-Fi isn't a "one size fits every solution" system. Invariably, the store routers (aka: Router + switch + AP in one plastic box solution) will sell themselves as that, plus the occasional "mesh" system which is nothing more than adding a few cheaper, dedicated repeaters to that setup. In the end, there main difference between enterprise level WiFi systems and home WiFi systems comes down to these two things: Customization and Feature Set. A system like Ubiquiti isn't a "one box fixes everything" type proposition. UniFi is a SYSTEM. It starts with the Access Points (UAP, UAP-Pro, UAP-Pro-Lite, etc), goes into the switches, and ends with the router (USG). It allows you to build based on your particular topology and requirements, i.e. can you even run all the wires back to a single switch? Are you indoors or outdoors? How many square feet are you building for? What are the building materials? What is your budget? What devices are you trying to support? There are literally millions of combinations in which to build a Ubiquiti system made up of just a few components, and things like "settings" and "features" almost have to take a back-seat to higher-level concepts like "physics" (radio wave propagation) and "where's the nearest power plug"/"Can I drill a hole there"; "how many clients will connect at peak times"?

In your case of multiple floors, I have to tell you that I've never successfully installed a single antenna on a multi-floor topology. Each floor deserves its own antenna (access point); If you have a large space on each floor, you may even consider adding multiple antennas to each floor. That also buys you resilience in case one goes down. Again: budget, floor plan, urgency, etc. All those things go into planning.

2) You mention zero-roaming, and it sounds like the key here is wiring the APs to a switch, but I would just like to confirm that you are referring to a seamless hand-off when roaming between APs? As I mentioned in my original post, I have a D-Link extender set up as an AP using the same SSID. It is wired and not connected over WiFi. The problem I have is that it takes several minutes for my devices to establish connection when walking upstairs and this drop in connection is really annoying. Using Ubiquiti APs and their software, is it reasonable to expect that this would be a more seamless transition?

The "seamless" in Ubiquiti roaming only works if (1) you use two or more Ubiquiti AP's, and (2) if they're wired into the same switch. It's a signal "hand-off", where the two AP's will negotiate a hand-off of a client system internally while the client never knows the difference. As the signal drops between the client and access point A, access point B starts to sync the transmission of data and then at a "half-way" point (or so) A finally cuts off and B takes over. In theory, you can stream HD content this way (provided that the signal could support this in the first place, i.e. AC class or better, with good signal strength at both AP and client both ways) while moving through different coverage zones with zero (ahem ahem, cough cough....read: "very little") video lag.

That's something most WiFi manufacturers can't claim. I have yet to find anyone other than Ubiquiti actually make this claim, and that does include vendors like Meraki (with their $1,200 access points). Again, like I've stated before: The KEY that makes this possible is to have the AP's connected at the switch level, i.e. you need to have them terminate in the SAME PHYSICAL SWITCH. I realize that this is only mentioned on a couple of tiny lines in their UniFi manual, but they mentioned this SEVERAL TIMES during the certification class. It's not something I deal with - I usually plop a dedicated Pro level AP right outside conference rooms so that they have near-max signal strength; That's usually more than adequate, and my users don't walk up and down the hallways while dragging projectors, screens, and laptops during meetings (they stay in the room the whole time, I suppose?).

3) I'll be honest and admit that I am not an expert in this area, but these "high performance" routers boast tons of features for gaming, multiple users, etc. Would there be any noticeable drawbacks in ditching my router and switching over to the UAP PRO APs? I was unaware of the throttling issue that you mentioned, so from that standpoint, the Ubiquiti products sound great.

Features are software. The key to a good router is hardware first, and Ubiquiti, Meraki, Aero, Ruckus, etc. all have qualitatively higher specs for their network devices than companies like Netgear and Asus. Think of it this way: Yes, you can add a supercharger to a VW beatle (i.e. a "feature"), but it's still not going to be a Porsche with a turbo. Ever.

Ubiquiti, for example, in terms of their routers (USG) was absolute CRAP. Not crap because they didn't have good hardware (they've had fantastic hardware specs @1 million packets/sec for $150 or so since day 1), but because their FEATURES were locked away using an esoteric routing language noone spoke. Over the years, they've added the features to the UniFi GUI, so that dummies like me can actually turn them on (they were always there, just not in easy reach). The same routers we bought 4 years ago are now "souped up" with tons of new features, and more are still being developed. Why? Because they've had ridiculously good processors to begin with, and we're just now beginning to "unlock" all the cool stuff they can do.

Now, try that with Netgear and TP-link hardware. I've NEVER seen a netgear router where I could burn V3 or V4 into the router. Literally. Never. Not once. I think I've seen one set of TP-Link Routers where they went from V1.1 to V2.0 and then to V2.1 (to fix all the bugs they had with NTP servers). Granted, they were cheap as dirt, but they sure epitomize the meaning of the word "abandonware". Those companies just don't support their own hardware once they shove it out the door. That, too, is a major difference between "enterprise" and "home" hardware. LONG TERM SUPPORT.

I run a network of Ubiquiti hardware across dozens of locations, both for wired and wireless networks. Easily the best move we've ever made. Can't say enough good things about it. It doesn't have the features that Meraki comes with, but at the same time they cost a fraction of the capital costs and zero recurring fees. I can literally buy two access points each year for the cost of a single Meraki recurring license. But I digress.

I did mention doing a quick test of QoS. Almost every home router I've owned for the last few years has had this. And every single one failed miserably. It's almost uncanny how bad they all suck at it. Even Ubiquiti will drop in performance when you turn on QoS and other "features" like " DPI on their routers, but they start at a huge 1 MPS to begin with, so for right now I have yet to measure any reduction in service to client systems all the way down at the end of the APs. It's a bottleneck, and cheap hardware like TP-Link can't handle it. There's no free lunch in hardware.

 

[xjeronx]

Thanks again for your very informative reply. It definitely sounds like the UniFi system is my best option. Do you have experience with the HD line of APs? Is it worth the upgrade from the Pros?

I have a couple more questions about completing the system.
1) Do all components need to be "UniFi"? Do i need the USG router and the UniFi switch? Will other products work?

2) If I keep my router for the time being (I understand that it's not the best option), will the UniFi APs still be able to manage the hand-off between the access point and D-Link router? I see two possible setups. First, I can replace all of my hardware, purchase the USG, and then have a UAP on each floor. The other option would be to keep my router on the main floor and then add a UAP to the upper and lower floor. Is this possible? Or are you saying that the UniFi products must be installed as a complete SYSTEM with all components?

 

[Harro Penk]

Thanks again for your very informative reply. It definitely sounds like the UniFi system is my best option. Do you have experience with the HD line of APs? Is it worth the upgrade from the Pros?

I have a couple more questions about completing the system.
1) Do all components need to be "UniFi"? Do i need the USG router and the UniFi switch? Will other products work?

2) If I keep my router for the time being (I understand that it's not the best option), will the UniFi APs still be able to manage the hand-off between the access point and D-Link router? I see two possible setups. First, I can replace all of my hardware, purchase the USG, and then have a UAP on each floor. The other option would be to keep my router on the main floor and then add a UAP to the upper and lower floor. Is this possible? Or are you saying that the UniFi products must be installed as a complete SYSTEM with all components?

(1) No, they don't. But if you want access to the full feature set of the UniFi OS (see youtube videos) then yes. There are a number of options that ONLY work if the components are Ubiquiti (specifically, UniFi, i.e. you can't even mix UniFi and Edge products - both of which are made by Ubiquiti). Also, you gain the ability to control your network from a single controller, i.e. you can do things like set up VLANs from edge-to-edge, DPI, etc. If you mix devices from different manufacturers, you'll have to log into each device separately to make those changes, and each will probably have a completely different GUI and "how-to" in order to accomplish anything. Also, added benefit: Less tendency for devices to try to default to the same stupid 192.168.0.1 address. But I digress.

(2) No. Handoff ONLY works with Ubiquiti IF you have two or more Ubiquiti AP's. It's a special, PROPRIETARY PROTOCOL that Ubiquiti bakes into their AP's. What you can do, if budget is an issue, is to go with the one UAP and one D-LinkAP for now. I would suggest turning down the signal strength on both devices until they just cover 3 bars at your network edges (2 bars is doable but iffy). That will take some trial/error with your various devices, i.e. phones will yield different results from tablets, laptops, xboxes, sonos, etc. There's a catch with this setup, though: In case A (preferred), you WIRE both back to your USG (use a switch 'cause the USG only has one port). If you can, use different bands for both, and you CAN use the same SSID/PASSKEY pairs for both....but.... if you start to have weird connectivity issues you might want to separate the two (i.e. different SSIDs). Even though WiFi standards are supposed to be "STANDARD", we all know that manufacturers will put their own "special" spin on whatever that looks like (I'm lookin' squarely at Apple on that one, don't even get me started on their verkackte connectors), sometimes they don't like to play together in the same network. That's especially a thing with WiFi stuff. In Case B, you don't wire them both back to the USG, but instead use one as a repeater in repeater mode. I suggest using the D-Link as the repeater, but again the caveats are as follows: Then you MUST use the same band, same SSID, and same passkey for both AP's. You will also need to make sure that they both communicate WITH EACH OTHER at maximum signal strength (i.e. keep turning the antennas until they both have at LEAST 4 bars out of 5 ... or... 3 out of 4, whatever the software displays). That's really important, as they need to "talk" to each other in order to relay from one floor to the next. Don't be surprised if your antennas actually point sideways. BTW: Ubiquiti signals propagate along the DIRECTION OF THE EMBLEM ON THE AP. It's not a perfect cone, so the signal is strongest in the direction of the "U" and the "I" in the word "UBIQUITI" (i.e. the ends). The ideal setup is in a horizontal position on a hallway's ceiling, but in your case you would need to place it on a vertical wall so that the signal plume extends into the upstairs floor. As for the D-link, expect to see at least one antenna horizontal with the floor.

Last piece of advice: Make sure they're both set up with identical NTP servers. If the time on these devices DRIFTS FROM EACH OTHER by more than few seconds, they will stop "repeating". One of the components of WiFi encryption (AES, or whatever) is TIME. You want to link both devices to sync their time to Internet standard time servers (NTP). I usually use the USA pool servers, they're usually online 99.9999% of the time (time is only synced once every few hours). Hopefully that helps minimize the disconnects between the two.