Question Dell PC rejects 4GB Crucial DDR3L 1600 RAM even though Crucial lists it as compatible ?

[Grobe]

Hi guys.

I have this old Dell Optiplex 780 (model with largest case) that has 2 x 4GB installed by manufacturer.
The old functioning ram sticks: Kingston KP223C-ELD

Have been looking for compatible upgrade sets, I found that only Crucial seems to have a set of RAM sticks that is listed as compatible on Crucial web site. This is a pair of of 4GB DDR3L-1600 CT51264BD160B sticks.

However, when attempting to boot - I get this instant long beep (about 2 sec on, 2 sec on) that continues for about 6-8 cycles (roughly estimates) indicating ram is not compatible at all.

The original Kingston sticks were seated in slots 1 and 2, so the new Crucial sticks were seated the same. I also tested with only one stick in slot 1, but same results.

When I put the original Kingston ram sticks back, everything works normally.
According to various sources on web, including the Optiplex 780 service manual says it should not be necessary to reset bios so therefore I haven't done so.

So, this being a pretty old computer and upgrading it was always quite dubious from the start (latest available bios seems to be dated in 2011 and bios versioning system doesn't seems to add up) this is not being s serious project of any kind.


But the one thing that nags me is that I feel I should have been able to somehow figure out in advance that this pair of RAM sticks would indeed not work with my old Optiplex 780.

So the only question I'm left is this: Could I have draw the conclusion of the ram sticks not working on the Dell Optiplex 780 before purchasing? Preferable not resorting to user forums (because I assume probably very few if none at all that has ever attempting a similar upgrade)

[edit]
forgot to mention one detail: The bios version is A15, released late 2013.

 

[Bob.B]

Hi guys.

I have this old Dell Optiplex 780 (model with largest case) that has 2 x 4GB installed by manufacturer.
The old functioning ram sticks: Kingston KP223C-ELD

Have been looking for compatible upgrade sets, I found that only Crucial seems to have a set of RAM sticks that is listed as compatible on Crucial web site. This is a pair of of 4GB DDR3L-1600 CT51264BD160B sticks.

However, when attempting to boot - I get this instant long beep (about 2 sec on, 2 sec on) that continues for about 6-8 cycles (roughly estimates) indicating ram is not compatible at all.

The original Kingston sticks were seated in slots 1 and 2, so the new Crucial sticks were seated the same. I also tested with only one stick in slot 1, but same results.

When I put the original Kingston ram sticks back, everything works normally.
According to various sources on web, including the Optiplex 780 service manual says it should not be necessary to reset bios so therefore I haven't done so.

So, this being a pretty old computer and upgrading it was always quite dubious from the start (latest available bios seems to be dated in 2011 and bios versioning system doesn't seems to add up) this is not being s serious project of any kind.


But the one thing that nags me is that I feel I should have been able to somehow figure out in advance that this pair of RAM sticks would indeed not work with my old Optiplex 780.

So the only question I'm left is this: Could I have draw the conclusion of the ram sticks not working on the Dell Optiplex 780 before purchasing? Preferable not resorting to user forums (because I assume probably very few if none at all that has ever attempting a similar upgrade)

[edit]
forgot to mention one detail: The bios version is A15, released late 2013.

Counting ram slots from the cpu out toward the edge of the mobo 1/2/3/4.

Put one stick of the old ram in slot 2 and see if the pc will boot.

If it does put one stick of the new ram in slot 2...test.

 

[Grobe]

Counting ram slots from the cpu out toward the edge of the mobo 1/2/3/4.

Nit picking - the labels for the RAM slots reads 1,3 then a little air gap and 2,4 - in that particular order.

Regardless - I don't know why putting the RAM stick in slot 2, but I'd test your suggestion anyway (assuming you mean slot 3 in this case since that one is never being used before)

[edit]

I've now tested your suggestion, this is the result:

1. Old Kingston 2GB KP223C-ELD inserted in Slot 3 - all other slots empty. Result: Boot fine, no issues.
2. New Crucial 4GB DDR3L-1600 CT51264BD160B inserted in Slot 3 - all other slots empty. Result: Fails to boot. Error beeps.

Thanks for suggestion, but doesn't work either.

Btw: The two old ram sticks where seated in slot 1 and 2 from factory.

 

[Bob.B]

Nit picking - the labels for the RAM slots reads 1,3 then a little air gap and 2,4 - in that particular order.

Regardless - I don't know why putting the RAM stick in slot 2, but I'd test your suggestion anyway (assuming you mean slot 3 in this case since that one is never being used before)

[edit]

I've now tested your suggestion, this is the result:

1. Old Kingston 2GB KP223C-ELD inserted in Slot 3 - all other slots empty. Result: Boot fine, no issues.
2. New Crucial 4GB DDR3L-1600 CT51264BD160B inserted in Slot 3 - all other slots empty. Result: Fails to boot. Error beeps.

Thanks for suggestion, but doesn't work either.

Btw: The two old ram sticks where seated in slot 1 and 2 from factory.

Ok.....it was just a test.
It seems like your new ram is not going to play nice with the mobo.
With the old sticks in slots 1+2 is dual channel enabled?

 

[Grobe]

With the old sticks in slots 1+2 is dual channel enabled?

The bios menu General / System board reads:

Number of Active Channels : "Dual Symetric"

The onboard arrangement is identical to this:
https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/single-dual-and-multi-channel-memory-modes/#dualchannelsym

 

[Bob.B]

The bios menu General / System board reads:


The onboard arrangement is identical to this:
https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/single-dual-and-multi-channel-memory-modes/#dualchannelsym

Run a pass of speccy does it show dual channel?
Speccy - Free Download

 

[Grobe]

Run a pass of speccy does it show dual channel?
Speccy - Free Download

No can't do, this computer runs Linux Mint. However I can still retrieve quite a detailed info list about RAM with other tools:

$ sudo dmidecode --type 17
[sudo] password for grobe:
# dmidecode 3.2
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 2.5 present.

Handle 0x1100, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: 2048 MB
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_1
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: 0198000002FE   
    Serial Number: B20D5467
    Asset Tag: 04103100
    Part Number: KP223C-ELD       

Handle 0x1101, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: No Module Installed
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_3
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF   
    Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
    Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
    Part Number:                  

Handle 0x1102, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: 2048 MB
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_2
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: 0198000002FE   
    Serial Number: B20D0867
    Asset Tag: 04103100
    Part Number: KP223C-ELD       

Handle 0x1103, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: No Module Installed
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_4
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF   
    Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
    Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
    Part Number:

 

[Bob.B]

No can't do, this computer runs Linux Mint. However I can still retrieve quite a detailed info list about RAM with other tools:

$ sudo dmidecode --type 17
[sudo] password for grobe:
# dmidecode 3.2
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 2.5 present.

Handle 0x1100, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: 2048 MB
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_1
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: 0198000002FE 
    Serial Number: B20D5467
    Asset Tag: 04103100
    Part Number: KP223C-ELD     

Handle 0x1101, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: No Module Installed
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_3
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF 
    Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
    Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
    Part Number:                

Handle 0x1102, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: 2048 MB
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_2
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: 0198000002FE 
    Serial Number: B20D0867
    Asset Tag: 04103100
    Part Number: KP223C-ELD     

Handle 0x1103, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
Memory Device
    Array Handle: 0x1000
    Error Information Handle: Not Provided
    Total Width: 64 bits
    Data Width: 64 bits
    Size: No Module Installed
    Form Factor: DIMM
    Set: None
    Locator: DIMM_4
    Bank Locator: Not Specified
    Type: DDR3
    Type Detail: Synchronous
    Speed: 1066 MT/s
    Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF 
    Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
    Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
    Part Number:

I don't know if any of that shows dual channel.
Perhaps someone else knows of a linux tool ?

 

[Grobe]

Ok, new attempt.

$ sudo dmidecode -t memory
    [sudo] password for grobe:         
    # dmidecode 3.2
    Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
    SMBIOS 2.5 present.

    Handle 0x1000, DMI type 16, 15 bytes
    Physical Memory Array
        Location: System Board Or Motherboard
        Use: System Memory
        Error Correction Type: None
        Maximum Capacity: 8 GB
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Number Of Devices: 4

    Handle 0x1100, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
    Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x1000
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 64 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 2048 MB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: DIMM_1
        Bank Locator: Not Specified
        Type: DDR3
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 1066 MT/s
        Manufacturer: 0198000002FE   
        Serial Number: B20D5467
        Asset Tag: 04103100
        Part Number: KP223C-ELD       

    Handle 0x1101, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
    Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x1000
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 64 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: No Module Installed
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: DIMM_3
        Bank Locator: Not Specified
        Type: DDR3
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 1066 MT/s
        Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF   
        Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
        Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
        Part Number:                   

    Handle 0x1102, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
    Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x1000
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 64 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 2048 MB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: DIMM_2
        Bank Locator: Not Specified
        Type: DDR3
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 1066 MT/s
        Manufacturer: 0198000002FE   
        Serial Number: B20D0867
        Asset Tag: 04103100
        Part Number: KP223C-ELD       

    Handle 0x1103, DMI type 17, 27 bytes
    Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x1000
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 64 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: No Module Installed
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: DIMM_4
        Bank Locator: Not Specified
        Type: DDR3
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 1066 MT/s
        Manufacturer: FFFFFFFFFFFF   
        Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
        Asset Tag: FFFFFFFF
        Part Number:

And the command sudo dmidecode -t memory | grep Channel therefore returns empty. Indicating the current RAM sticks are not running dual channel.

 

[Grobe]

A little update - I got my answer now, after I upgraded to latest Linux Mint 21.3 - and with that, also a newer version of inxi that provide more details than before.

For memory specific, that is:

Memory:
RAM: total: 3.66 GiB used: 1.14 GiB (31.0%)
  Array-1: capacity: 8 GiB slots: 4 EC: None max-module-size: 2 GiB
    note: est.
  Device-1: DIMM_1 size: 2 GiB speed: 1066 MT/s type: DDR3
    manufacturer: 0198000002FE part-no: KP223C-ELD
  Device-2: DIMM_3 size: No Module Installed
  Device-3: DIMM_2 size: 2 GiB speed: 1066 MT/s type: DDR3
    manufacturer: 0198000002FE part-no: KP223C-ELD
  Device-4: DIMM_4 size: No Module Installed

And there is the answer, max module size are 2GB. Wish I knew before that newer version of inxi (it would be revealed if I used a lives session as well, not having to actually install the os just for that) would provide that more info.

 

[BFG-9000]

I think it's misreading the wrong memory controller as array-1.

Your Q45 Express chipset does indeed support only 2GB sticks of DDR2. However all Intel Core 2 chipsets for Wolfdale on desktop support up to 8GB of DDR2 or 16GB of DDR3 in 4 slots. So 4GB sticks of DDR3, but only a very specific kind.

For DDR3 they only support what would nowadays be considered extremely low-density 2Gbit chips. Sixteen of those is 32Gbit or 4GB per stick. The "normal" low-density needed for Nehalem-Sandy Bridge-Ivy Bridge is 4Gbit chips and thus up to 8GB per stick, and won't work on Core 2.

So you would normally expect a 4GB stick with sixteen chips on it to work fine, but one with only eight chips to not work. Your 2GB Kingston sticks can have eight or sixteen chips and work, but not four.

Of course it's not only what the chipset supports but what the BIOS does too, but there are many examples of Intel supporting more memory than Dell does and it working despite not being supported by Dell.

 

[Grobe]

Well, the whole project I've put on ice. Yesterday I had this incidence with sudden loss of video signal (DP and a DP-DVI cable). I did remove an extra PCI (the good old 32 bit) network card, and after that when I booted up next time, the monitor received signals as normal.
Not sure what the root cause is, but cannot rule out the main board itself because it's pretty old by now.