Discussion: AMD Ryzen

[jaymc]

I appreciate that juanrga...

I did see your comments actually, I just taught I'd let the others here see this developement. Does this mean it loos like were on track... ie no postponements for the release etc...

Jay

 

[gamerk316]

We've been "on track" for a while now; the release has ALWAYS been Q1 2017.

 

[juanrga]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

 

[Quixit]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

 

[juanrga]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

You are right. Forrest Norrod slides stated Zen Opteron for 2016.

 

[TehPenguin]

I might be making things up... didn't AMD announce an earlier release for both Vega and Zen? Was it just for Vega?

 

[-Fran-]

I might be making things up... didn't AMD announce an earlier release for both Vega and Zen? Was it just for Vega?

I've never seen "Zen" and "early" in the same sentence from AMD, so I'd say no.

Vega on the other hand, I do remember reading about it, but only on rumor form. After the 1080, I am pretty sure they want to deliver Vega as fast as they can, but I haven't seen any official statements pushing the dates earlier than Q4 2016.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

Vega is 2017

 

[TehPenguin]

Vega is 2017

Yeah but this graph is from March 2016, before 1080 release. As Yuka said, it was rumored to be AMD's reaction to nVidia's pascal.

 

[juanrga]

Ok, but not everything is at AMD disposal. E.g. HBM2 has its own roadmap, and AMD cannot release Vega without HBM2.

 

[simon12]

There were loads of articles in May saying Vega would be out in October now everything says early 2017. As for Zen there are loads of articles around stating anything from October 2016 to Q1 2017. I only skim read this thread so aplogies if its been posted beofre but this says engineering samples 3GHz and "At 3GHz, the engineering sample is already faster than the first Bulldozer ones suggesting that 14nm LPP won’t be holding back frequency too much. After all, Intel’s own 14nm process has performed better than their 22nm. Samsung and Global Foundries have also had plenty of time to refine their 14nm process to ensure it will offer the best performance at launch. Hopefully, AMD will be able to be competitive in both IPC and overclocking." http://www.eteknix.com/amd-zen-8core-engineering-sample-leaked/
I am not going to pretend to have any idea of the accuracy of anything I have said just posting the thoughts of others.
I hope they can give intel some competition as it will be better for consumers but since bulldozer was so far below what I thought was worst case I will only hope and not try to speculate.

 

[TehPenguin]

So it was just rumors. Shame. I still root for AMD, though. I want them to make nVidia stop and think, even if just for a little while. Show some teeth, if you will.

 

[8350rocks]

So it was just rumors. Shame. I still root for AMD, though. I want them to make nVidia stop and think, even if just for a little while. Show some teeth, if you will.

AMD has mostly been quite competitive with Nvidia for a long time. Nvidia has had the "halo" card, so to speak, but price to performance was always an AMD advantage dollar per dollar.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Hey folks lets get this back on track, we have an AMD GPU thread for this discussion

 

[juanrga]

There were loads of articles in May saying Vega would be out in October now everything says early 2017. As for Zen there are loads of articles around stating anything from October 2016 to Q1 2017.

AMD's Bridgman confirmed that the Q3 launch was a fabrication from the media. However part of that media insisted on that Bridgman had confirmed a Q4 2016 launch

http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-english-news/7148-john-bridgman-of-amd-zen-is-on-track-and-will-be-available-in-4q16

Although finally bitandschips had to retract:

UPDATE: We have to update this article, because we have misread John Bridgman's words. He didn't say that Zen will be available in 4Q16 for sure or something like this, as we reported. He just pointed out that the online magazines and IT journalists often misunderstand the terms "shipping", "scheduling" and "sampling" (If you read the thread in Phoronix forums, you can verify this fact). Dear readers, we apologize for this summary news, but when we go wrong, we haven't problem to say it. Intellectual honesty first, profit will follow. 😉

You can find this retract in the above link.

I only skim read this thread so aplogies if its been posted beofre but this says engineering samples 3GHz and "At 3GHz, the engineering sample is already faster than the first Bulldozer ones suggesting that 14nm LPP won’t be holding back frequency too much. After all, Intel’s own 14nm process has performed better than their 22nm. Samsung and Global Foundries have also had plenty of time to refine their 14nm process to ensure it will offer the best performance at launch. Hopefully, AMD will be able to be competitive in both IPC and overclocking." http://www.eteknix.com/amd-zen-8core-engineering-sample-leaked/
I am not going to pretend to have any idea of the accuracy of anything I have said just posting the thoughts of others.
I hope they can give intel some competition as it will be better for consumers but since bulldozer was so far below what I thought was worst case I will only hope and not try to speculate.

I will copy and paste what I wrote in their comment section:

Meanwhile people with access to engineering samples claims that AMD will be lucky if achieves 3.5GHz.

I will add that the original rumor about a 3GHz engineering sample is coming from the same Italian author has been posting incorrect leaks about Zen, Excavator, Bristol, Kaveri, HSA, and more. This is the same italian author that promised us HBM on Carrizo and 16CU Bristol APU and 20 core FX/Opteron CPUs, and 16nm... Some time ago he was expecting 4.0 GHz base clocks for Zen and Turbo up to 4.3GHz for Zen. After our last round of discussions he has reduced his belief to 3.6GHz and 4.0GHz Turbo.

My belief for Zen is 3.0/3.5GHz and small overclocking capabilities.

 

[os2wiz]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

You guys are totally misinformed unless you are here to spread misinformation. Lisa Su, AMD CEO, has on several occasions, as recent as 2 weeks ago stated Zen cpu will be available 4th quarter of 2016. My guess is early November so new computers for Christmas will feature Zen. Why you continue to speculate a 2017 release when all reliable sources point to 2016 4th auarter is beyond me. Digi Times is the only known source saying 2017 and they are far from reliable by judging past history.

 

[juanrga]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

You guys are totally misinformed unless you are here to spread misinformation. Lisa Su, AMD CEO, has on several occasions, as recent as 2 weeks ago stated Zen cpu will be available 4th quarter of 2016. My guess is early November so new computers for Christmas will feature Zen. Why you continue to speculate a 2017 release when all reliable sources point to 2016 4th auarter is beyond me. Digi Times is the only known source saying 2017 and they are far from reliable by judging past history.

Precisely the point is that media has confounded terms like "availability" and "sampling".

"Availability in 2016" doesn't necessarily mean you can buy it in 2016. They stuck to that and Lisa Su said at computex that SR samples will be available for few selected partners in the coming weeks and announced wider availability of samples in Q3.

Ok, so availability means "not available". I'll give you that, English isn't my native language so nuances escape me from time to time.
But how do you get a "full year of revenue" if you product isn't available since the beginning of the year?

Yeah, I think we are talking about two different things - one is when we start shipping for revenue, and the other is the actual launch announcement. Typically we start shipping parts before the actual launch so that they can be built into systems/boards/whatever by the time the launch happens.

All the known sources suggest a 2017 launch. Digitimes is not the only one. We have the interview to the Zen team stating first products in 2017. An older linkedin profile with Zen engineer stating 2017 products. ASMedia claim about the Zen chipset shipping in 2017. Papermaster refuting to confirm a 2016 launch,...

 

[g-unit1111]

I see zen is floating on a lot of rumors. Including estimates and rumors on performance.
If the flagship Zen 8core-16thread performs 50% or more of 6900K for $500-$600, it should be a good deal.

I suppose Zen will come with the wrath stock cooler?

50% or more? Now after Polaris was a complete disaster, are you really expecting that? I would not set my hopes that high.

 

[os2wiz]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

You guys are totally misinformed unless you are here to spread misinformation. Lisa Su, AMD CEO, has on several occasions, as recent as 2 weeks ago stated Zen cpu will be available 4th quarter of 2016. My guess is early November so new computers for Christmas will feature Zen. Why you continue to speculate a 2017 release when all reliable sources point to 2016 4th auarter is beyond me. Digi Times is the only known source saying 2017 and they are far from reliable by judging past history.

Precisely the point is that media has confounded terms like "availability" and "sampling".

"Availability in 2016" doesn't necessarily mean you can buy it in 2016. They stuck to that and Lisa Su said at computex that SR samples will be available for few selected partners in the coming weeks and announced wider availability of samples in Q3.

Ok, so availability means "not available". I'll give you that, English isn't my native language so nuances escape me from time to time.
But how do you get a "full year of revenue" if you product isn't available since the beginning of the year?

Yeah, I think we are talking about two different things - one is when we start shipping for revenue, and the other is the actual launch announcement. Typically we start shipping parts before the actual launch so that they can be built into systems/boards/whatever by the time the launch happens.

All the known sources suggest a 2017 launch. Digitimes is not the only one. We have the interview to the Zen team stating first products in 2017. An older linkedin profile with Zen engineer stating 2017 products. ASMedia claim about the Zen chipset shipping in 2017. Papermaster refuting to confirm a 2016 launch,...

Availability means exactly what it's dictionary definition means. You can have Zen in your hands sometime in the 4th quarter my guess mid to late November.

 

[-Fran-]

I see zen is floating on a lot of rumors. Including estimates and rumors on performance.
If the flagship Zen 8core-16thread performs 50% or more of 6900K for $500-$600, it should be a good deal.

I suppose Zen will come with the wrath stock cooler?

50% or more? Now after Polaris was a complete disaster, are you really expecting that? I would not set my hopes that high.

Disaster?

Please elaborate.

Cheers!

 

[g-unit1111]

I see zen is floating on a lot of rumors. Including estimates and rumors on performance.
If the flagship Zen 8core-16thread performs 50% or more of 6900K for $500-$600, it should be a good deal.

I suppose Zen will come with the wrath stock cooler?

50% or more? Now after Polaris was a complete disaster, are you really expecting that? I would not set my hopes that high.

Disaster?

Please elaborate.

Cheers!

Outperformed by GTX 1060 for same price: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2016/07/06/nvidias-gtx-1060-outperforms-radeon-rx-480-matches-gtx-980-in-leaked-benchmarks/#4fe3192f48a7

Mislabeling of VRAM: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-4gb-cards-have-8gb-memory/

Possible "disabling of CPUs" : http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Denies-Rumor-RX-480-Has-Disabled-CUs

And then there's that whole power consumption thing which they're attempting to fix with a driver patch: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10465/amd-releases-statement-on-radeon-rx-480-power-consumption

If that's not disaster, I don't know what is.

 

[-Fran-]

I see zen is floating on a lot of rumors. Including estimates and rumors on performance.
If the flagship Zen 8core-16thread performs 50% or more of 6900K for $500-$600, it should be a good deal.

I suppose Zen will come with the wrath stock cooler?

50% or more? Now after Polaris was a complete disaster, are you really expecting that? I would not set my hopes that high.

Disaster?

Please elaborate.

Cheers!

Outperformed by GTX 1060 for same price: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2016/07/06/nvidias-gtx-1060-outperforms-radeon-rx-480-matches-gtx-980-in-leaked-benchmarks/#4fe3192f48a7

Mislabeling of VRAM: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-4gb-cards-have-8gb-memory/

Possible "disabling of CPUs" : http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Denies-Rumor-RX-480-Has-Disabled-CUs

And then there's that whole power consumption thing which they're attempting to fix with a driver patch: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10465/amd-releases-statement-on-radeon-rx-480-power-consumption

If that's not disaster, I don't know what is.

I know what it is: overblown bad press.

First, the 1060 is not even out and you're declaring it the perfect card that will sit atop the 480 with not a single possible flaw. You're not even classifying it as a rumor as it should be. Even if the information comes from nVidia itself, you know that is a cherry picked bench, just like AMD did with AoS.

Second, another rumor that was DENIED by AMD. I haven't seen any serious study from any site around the issue.

The RAM thing... Really? REALLY? They're basically selling 4GB cards that YOU CAN TURN INTO 8GB CARDS. Why is that a BAD thing?

The only bad thing so far is the power delivery problem they have, but after the patch and tests, we will see if it's gone.

Really, you're being part of the problem of blowing stuff out of proportion and out of scope.

Cheers!

 

[g-unit1111]

First, the 1060 is not even out and you're declaring it the perfect card that will sit atop the 480 with not a single possible flaw. You're not even classifying it as a rumor as it should be. Even if the information comes from nVidia itself, you know that is a cherry picked bench, just like AMD did with AoS.

Second, another rumor that was DENIED by AMD. I haven't seen any serious study from any site around the issue.

The RAM thing... Really? REALLY? They're basically selling 4GB cards that YOU CAN TURN INTO 8GB CARDS. Why is that a BAD thing?

The only bad thing so far is the power delivery problem they have, but after the patch and tests, we will see if it's gone.

Really, you're being part of the problem of blowing stuff out of proportion and out of scope.

Cheers!

I'm being part of the problem? All I did was quote some articles that backed up the point I was originally trying to make. I never said anything was better than the other.

 

[-Fran-]

I'm being part of the problem? All I did was quote some articles that backed up the point I was originally trying to make. I never said anything was better than the other.

The problem is you're feeding the frenzy of people looking for excuses to just hate instead of have the decency of investigating instead.

That is why I find it calling the launch a "disaster" is way blown out of proportions and your supporting evidence is full of shortcomings.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

Server Zen and APU Zen were always scheduled for a 2017 launch. With the HPC APU scheduled for 2018.

The doubt is on desktop Zen CPU. Some rumors pointed to a late 2016 launch of CPUs, with early availability of AM4 boards and Bristol Ridge in the first half of 2016. We are still awaiting for desktop Bristol Ridge and AM4 boards, and I am rather sure that Zen CPU will not be available (in volume quantities) before 2017.

The Q3 launch and the October launch claims were all a fabrication from the media; as admitted by AMD's Bridgman, the plan was never to release Zen in October or Q3. Moreover, after the USB Zen issue rumor, ASMedia confirmed that the Zen chipset volume production is scheduled for late 2016.

If you go back far enough, server Zen was intended to launch in mid 2016 (which is why there are some old AMD slides that mention Zen in 2016), you're right about desktop Zen being intended to launch in early 2017. Here's hoping it comes out before next June. Just before the end of year and early summer seem to be the hottest times of year for computer hardware.

You guys are totally misinformed unless you are here to spread misinformation. Lisa Su, AMD CEO, has on several occasions, as recent as 2 weeks ago stated Zen cpu will be available 4th quarter of 2016. My guess is early November so new computers for Christmas will feature Zen. Why you continue to speculate a 2017 release when all reliable sources point to 2016 4th auarter is beyond me. Digi Times is the only known source saying 2017 and they are far from reliable by judging past history.

Precisely the point is that media has confounded terms like "availability" and "sampling".

"Availability in 2016" doesn't necessarily mean you can buy it in 2016. They stuck to that and Lisa Su said at computex that SR samples will be available for few selected partners in the coming weeks and announced wider availability of samples in Q3.

Ok, so availability means "not available". I'll give you that, English isn't my native language so nuances escape me from time to time.
But how do you get a "full year of revenue" if you product isn't available since the beginning of the year?

Yeah, I think we are talking about two different things - one is when we start shipping for revenue, and the other is the actual launch announcement. Typically we start shipping parts before the actual launch so that they can be built into systems/boards/whatever by the time the launch happens.

All the known sources suggest a 2017 launch. Digitimes is not the only one. We have the interview to the Zen team stating first products in 2017. An older linkedin profile with Zen engineer stating 2017 products. ASMedia claim about the Zen chipset shipping in 2017. Papermaster refuting to confirm a 2016 launch,...

Availability means exactly what it's dictionary definition means. You can have Zen in your hands sometime in the 4th quarter my guess mid to late November.

They didn't say available for the final user but available for selected partners such as OEMs.