Discussion: Polaris, AMD's 4th Gen GCN Architecture

[renz496]

AMD/NVIDIA titles are just to get their name on there. Do people really think they're behind the scenes hurting each other while making the game?

AMD is better than NVIDIA at DX12, it's a fact. Don't you remember NVIDIA's claim, and why AMD recently benchmarked Ashes against their high end card? NVIDIA stated that Ashes was broken and in Alpha, now that it's released, what did they say? Absolutely nothing, I love it.

AFAIK the issue back then mostly with MSAA. they just add the game will not going to represent how all DX12 can be. so far this DX12 thingy is quite complicated. even on AMD hardware it is complicated. in hitman we saw even radeon can get reduce performance vs DX11 depending on game setting. and personally i 'm thinking if it is the right decision to push more hardware optimization towards game developer. look at warhammer as bench by guru3d. the game will not run in DX12 mode for GCN 1.0 and kepler based cards. is that developer decision not to support those card?

 

[renz496]

Sponsored doesn't mean anything in regards to performance.

All I'm saying is that I want proof of claims where they cripple NVIDIA, or the other way around. Is it not libeling?

yes it does. i'm not saying AMD crippling AMD but AMD will ensure game developer to take advantage of their hardware feature. in Ashes case that was using ACE hardware that did not exist in other gpu. not in geforce, power vr, mali or adreno.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

So basically what you're saying is that both AMD and NVIDIA are shady and are trying to force consumers to buy their cards for X games? Well, to be honest that's my original thought, but to take it to that extent just hurts everyone buying their products/games, shame....

 

[jimmysmitty]

So basically what you're saying is that both AMD and NVIDIA are shady and are trying to force consumers to buy their cards for X games? Well, to be honest that's my original thought, but to take it to that extent just hurts everyone buying their products/games, shame....

No rathe that when AMD or nVidia works with a company they allow them to take advantage of specific hardware features to better the performance. AMD and nVidia are not responsible for the other if they do not support it.

Look at Gameworks. All features that nVidias GPU supports that most are not supported by an AMD GPU. Is that nVidia crippling AMD? No it is nVidia trying to give people a reason beyond performance to buy their products.

Even with AA nVidia and AMD both have their own versions of AA that the others do not and any game can be made to use those specific AA features if they want.

If AMD works with a company they will help the company optimize the game for their hardware but they wont help them optimize the game for nVidia hardware.

 

[Devoteicon]

What are your temps and % GPU usage, if I my ask?

The GPU maxed out at 81 deg C in Firestrike and DOOM. I didn't pay attention to GPU usage but when I try those other settings again tonight I'll take a look.

What about the noise levels? I usually avoid these blower type coolers like the plague because of their poor reputation concerning noise. In all the reviews it looked like this was never getting above ~51% fan speed which they said was pretty quiet. Can you confirm?

 

[Rogue Leader]

What are your temps and % GPU usage, if I my ask?

The GPU maxed out at 81 deg C in Firestrike and DOOM. I didn't pay attention to GPU usage but when I try those other settings again tonight I'll take a look.

What about the noise levels? I usually avoid these blower type coolers like the plague because of their poor reputation concerning noise. In all the reviews it looked like this was never getting above ~51% fan speed which they said was pretty quiet. Can you confirm?

I can confirm, yes my fan never got over around 2100rpm where I think it maxes at 5100, so mostly around 40% (admittedly I have a 200mm case side fan blowing right on the GPU so that helps). Noise wise you can hear it but its not loud by any measure.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Ok guys, were getting off topic here. If you want to discuss stuff about PSU's, please make your way to a power supply discussion thread.

Is it possible for the mods to split the PSU related comments into a new thread?

Alternatively, does someone want to start a new thread and copy-paste the existing comments into it? I'd be interested in seeing where the conversation goes.

 

[Math Geek]

looks like tom's was onto something with their 480 review!!!

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-480-killing-pcie-slots/ seems folks are having trouble with pcie slots not being able to handle the extra power being pulled from it. way to go tom's being the first to measure it and report it.

 

[jimmysmitty]

looks like tom's was onto something with their 480 review!!!

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-480-killing-pcie-slots/ seems folks are having trouble with pcie slots not being able to handle the extra power being pulled from it. way to go tom's being the first to measure it and report it.

I hope this is not 100% because man, that is going to be a PR nightmare for AMD. I can imagine they would have to recall the GPUs and they really cannot afford that right now.

 

[Math Geek]

that's what i was thinking as well. though it does look like it is related to high oc for the most part. few others sites suggesting these users were highly oc'ed. tom's noted high draw and did not try to oc since it seemed like a bad idea.

too bad everyone doesn't read tom's 😀 or they would have already known.

for those users here that bought one, i'd hold off on overclocking it for now until these issues can be addressed. that just makes sense until more is known and possibly fixed. though it seems like only way to fix it is to under clock the card. i'm sure more will be coming in the new few days as this is explored more.

 

[Baralis]

Is that something that could be fixed with a bios update or is it going to be strictly a hardware issue?

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

Like a PSU connector, don't the PC just doesn't boot if it doesn't get enough power? Seems like a rumor right now.

 

[-Fran-]

When the GPU needs more power, it just asks for more power. I don't have any idea on how they split the power sources, but looks like they chose incredibly wrong.

And yeah, this is a PR nightmare nVidia is going to use in their favor. The most probable escape goat is going to be Mr. Raja.

Cheers!

 

[Math Geek]

Like a PSU connector, don't the PC just doesn't boot if it doesn't get enough power? Seems like a rumor right now.

as already noted, tom's measured this extra power draw right away. it is clearly not an issue for 100% of the cards but seems like there will be a certain amount that may be faulty like this. how many? no idea. but i doubt this is rumor rather than "we just don't know how bad it is yet" kind of thing.


and i don't know either how the card handles how/where the power it uses comes from. it may be something a bios update can fix or it may not be. i really don't know. for amd's sake i hope it can be handled with a bios update.

 

[TechyInAZ]

Ok guys, were getting off topic here. If you want to discuss stuff about PSU's, please make your way to a power supply discussion thread.

Is it possible for the mods to split the PSU related comments into a new thread?

Alternatively, does someone want to start a new thread and copy-paste the existing comments into it? I'd be interested in seeing where the conversation goes.

Sure we can. In fact, I'll go make one right now.

I'll give you all the link to it when I'm done. It will be stickied in the components category.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Like a PSU connector, don't the PC just doesn't boot if it doesn't get enough power? Seems like a rumor right now.

It is not quite a rumor as Toms showed even at stock it was pulling more than spec from the PCIe slot.

ANd the GPUs BIOS can probably be used to limit how much power it draws from where. I hope it is just a BIOS issue because the only options are to keep it stock, down clock with a BIOS update or recall.

 

[TechyInAZ]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, the PSU thread is up!!! http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3107745/discussion-power-supplies-electricity.html

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

Then could be factory defect because it shouldn't be possible.

As far as the PSU thread is concerned. I just replied to correct that you can die from 0.01 amps, or 10 mA, 1/100th of an Amp, because previously stated was 0,5 A. No big deal as far as a full blown discussion is concerned. I'm sure not everyone have a electricity background either, I did mechatronics.

In my opinion, there's no point in discussing this, because there's not much to add if anything, because you can take basic courses or just Google something and find the answer in a few seconds. Electricity isn't really a matter of opinion.

 

[Ags1]

Waiting for my Sapphire RX480 (reference)... I think this power draw this is blown out of all proportion. Can't Toms do a bit more testing on this? Specifically, what is being sucked from the PCIe slot by a GTX 750Ti or a GTX 950 (a no-6-pin model) at 4k at stock and overclocked settings? I bet a lot of cards, particularly ovrclocked ones are drawing power way over spec.

For me, I had no plans to overclock as I want to manage heat in my case. Instead Watt Man might be useful to me to undervolt the GPU a bit. Hmmmm, I might undervolt the GPU and overclock the RAM.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Waiting for my Sapphire RX480 (reference)... I think this power draw this is blown out of all proportion. Can't Toms do a bit more testing on this? Specifically, what is being sucked from the PCIe slot by a GTX 750Ti or a GTX 950 (a no-6-pin model) at 4k at stock and overclocked settings? I bet a lot of cards, particularly ovrclocked ones are drawing power way over spec.

For me, I had no plans to overclock as I want to manage heat in my case. Instead Watt Man might be useful to me to undervolt the GPU a bit. Hmmmm, I might undervolt the GPU and overclock the RAM.

I don't have the link here but there was another site that tried some of the higher powered GPUs that only pulled around 40w from the slot. Admittedly they were not the no 6 pin models like the 750Ti and some 950s. I would be interested to see that as well.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Waiting for my Sapphire RX480 (reference)... I think this power draw this is blown out of all proportion. Can't Toms do a bit more testing on this? Specifically, what is being sucked from the PCIe slot by a GTX 750Ti or a GTX 950 (a no-6-pin model) at 4k at stock and overclocked settings? I bet a lot of cards, particularly ovrclocked ones are drawing power way over spec.

For me, I had no plans to overclock as I want to manage heat in my case. Instead Watt Man might be useful to me to undervolt the GPU a bit. Hmmmm, I might undervolt the GPU and overclock the RAM.

Go through the old reviews for the Fury X and the GTX 1080. Both of them had this done and the Fury X was pulling only 32W from the slot and the GTX 1080 (overclocked) pulls 72W from the slot, still within spec. And those are the SPIKE numbers, meaning the maximum draw. Even the 980Ti only spikes at 82W for the Asus Strix OC (which I have).

The RX 480 is, however, is spiking over 100W (155W for the gaming test) and the average is 85W. That is a lot more than the 980Tis 48W average, or the Fury Xs 10.55W even.

Now will it affect everyone? Yes maybe no. It might depend on the board quality but there is also a lot of risk and AMD does not need this headache right now.

 

[-Fran-]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4qfwd4/rx480_fails_pcie_specification/?

This was very painful to read, so I am sharing the pain. Or pushing some onto all of you, haha.

Cheers! 😛

EDIT: Oh man... There is one thing that is worrying me sick... It seems like, if they actually find the cards being non-compliant, nVidia can actually block them invoking a trademark misuse for the PCI-SIG.

Holy DAMN. xD

 

[Rogue Leader]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4qfwd4/rx480_fails_pcie_specification/?

This was very painful to read, so I am sharing the pain. Or pushing some onto all of you, haha.

Cheers! 😛

EDIT: Oh man... There is one thing that is worrying me sick... It seems like, if they actually find the cards being non-compliant, nVidia can actually block them invoking a trademark misuse for the PCI-SIG.

Holy DAMN. xD

I tried to read that crapshow of a thread before, My brain hurt I gave up.

 

[-Fran-]

I tried to read that crapshow of a thread before, My brain hurt I gave up.

The OP'er updated the... OP... with all the information he could gather and has a huge list of links and information around the issue. You won't do much "browsing" on people's posts, so it should be less of a pain to read now.

Cheers!

 

[BurgerandChips66]

They need to get those reference PCBs re-designed asap!

I've seen a bit of nonsense about this too. Somebody claiming their motherboard was fried after a 7 hour gaming session. They claimed they had overclocked the card to 1350Mhz with no over-volting (?) and then refused to offer up any evidence when pressed on the subject.

I recall setting my Sapphire Nitro R9 380X to 1200MHz core (+40mV) with the power limit at 120% when running the likes of Valley Benchmark at 1080p Ultra. It never seemed to pull more than 125W according to Trixx. Quite a big overclock (+ 160MHz from the factory overclock of 1040MHz) and it still didn't go anywhere near the 190W TDP.

Some of these RX 480s seem to be pulling much more than their TDP - even at stock frequencies. :-/

If the custom cards solve these issues I'm still happy to get one though to replace a 750Ti in my older rig. Although now the GTX 1060 is rumoured to be releasing in July.... I might have to wait AGAIN for more reviews.

All this waiting is making me crazy 😵

http://www.game-debate.com/news/20679/250-geforce-gtx-1060-could-actually-be-as-powerful-as-gtx-980-according-to-new-slides