Question Do I need to return this RAM?

Sep 14, 2019
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Hello, I bought 32gb of Crucial Ballistix Sport ram rated at 3200 mhz recently, but there's a problem I can't seem to fix or find an answer to. The ram runs at 3200mhz just fine, forever, until I sleep/turn off/restart my PC. When this happens, it chain turns off/on until a screen pops up that says it reset my overclocking settings. Again, the ram is rated at 3200mhz, CL16 and that's all I am running it at. No crazy timings, nothing. Just rated speeds. I really want to know if this is a RAM problem, or if my CPU / Mobo just can't handle that speed or something. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Specs:
i5 6600k
MSI Z170A SLI Motherboard
GTX 1070
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Replace the CMOS battery on your MoBo since that's the piece of hardware that keeps your BIOS settings saved. When CMOS battery is empty, all BIOS settings will revert to factory default each time your shut down/reboot/sleep your PC.

Also, what's your PSU make and model (or part number)?
 
Sep 14, 2019
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Replace the CMOS battery on your MoBo since that's the piece of hardware that keeps your BIOS settings saved. When CMOS battery is empty, all BIOS settings will revert to factory default each time your shut down/reboot/sleep your PC.

Also, what's your PSU make and model (or part number)?
It doesn't just reset the settings, though. It starts up, shuts down after 3 seconds, starts up, shuts down after 3 seconds, repeat, and then resets the settings. Also, it doesn't happen every single time, probably 50-75% chance, and when I go back to OC settings in my BIOS, they're all still
saved, just not activated. Is this this still what you meant in regards to the CMOS?
Power supply is an EVGA 750w G3 Supernova Gold.
 
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i5 6600k
Supported memory: DDR4-2133

Higher speed memory is commonly used when overclocking.

It looks like your overclock failed. It also looks like you don't overclock the CPU and the only thing overclocked is the memory.

I would think anyone buying that memory for a i5 6600k would need to OC the CPU.
 
Sep 14, 2019
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i5 6600k
Supported memory: DDR4-2133

Higher speed memory is commonly used when overclocking.

It looks like your overclock failed. It also looks like you don't overclock the CPU and the only thing overclocked is the memory.

I would think anyone buying that memory for a i5 6600k would need to OC the CPU.
Yes, the overclock is failing according to the BIOS message after failing to boot. I’m wondering what the cause is, and if the new memory i purchased could be faulty or something, because I can’t find anything similar situations online.

I didnt know that not overclocking the CPU could be the cause of a ram overclock failing, but I’ve tried OCing the CPU and not OCing the CPU with the ram with the same results.

Also is it even technically an over clock on the ram if I’m running it at its exact rates values?
3200mhz CL16 @1.35v
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
I would think anyone buying that memory for a i5 6600k would need to OC the CPU.
And here is where you are completely wrong. You do not need to OC i5-6600K CPU to run the RAM faster than 2133 Mhz, which is standard JEDEC speed, not max supported RAM speed for that CPU.
Above image is from my desktop and compare the CPU frequency with DRAM frequency.

It doesn't just reset the settings, though. It starts up, shuts down after 3 seconds, starts up, shuts down after 3 seconds, repeat, and then resets the settings. Also, it doesn't happen every single time, probably 50-75% chance, and when I go back to OC settings in my BIOS, they're all still
saved, just not activated. Is this this still what you meant in regards to the CMOS?
Power supply is an EVGA 750w G3 Supernova Gold.
I understand wrong when you said:"it chain turns off/on". I was suspecting PSU issue but since you now explained it better, it's the RAM OC that doesn't want to be stable.

Did you enable the RAM XMP? If so, try setting the RAM Mhz and timings manually. E.g 3200 Mhz and timings 16-??-??-?? (full timings are written on RAM sticker and/or RAM retail box). Sometimes, it helps whenever MoBo doesn't want to accept XMP for some reason. You might want to try DRAM frequency at 3000 Mhz as well, to see if you get it stable with 3200 Mhz timings.

Oh, don't use the fancy ON/OFF buttons in BIOS. Instead, go under Memory section and do it from there. Also, disable OC Genie 4 (at OFF position).
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
The cpu might need a bump in memory controller voltage. 3200MHz is quite a jump from the default 2133 and if the memory controller is on the weak side, it might be having issues and failing the OC. If system agent is less than 1.1v, I believe with DDR4 it'll handle upto 1.2v

I've honestly never gotten a straight answer on (OC) when it comes to ram. For some ppl, it means the cpu will probably need a slight OC to get the rated ram stable speed, for some its because it's a factory overclock above and beyond cpu 1:1 default tested speeds, for some it simply means you'll need a mobo that is OC capable. So it can be any of the three, in any combination.
 
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Sep 14, 2019
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And here is where you are completely wrong. You do not need to OC i5-6600K CPU to run the RAM faster than 2133 Mhz, which is standard JEDEC speed, not max supported RAM speed for that CPU.
Above image is from my desktop and compare the CPU frequency with DRAM frequency.


I understand wrong when you said:"it chain turns off/on". I was suspecting PSU issue but since you now explained it better, it's the RAM OC that doesn't want to be stable.

Did you enable the RAM XMP? If so, try setting the RAM Mhz and timings manually. E.g 3200 Mhz and timings 16-??-??-?? (full timings are written on RAM sticker and/or RAM retail box). Sometimes, it helps whenever MoBo doesn't want to accept XMP for some reason. You might want to try DRAM frequency at 3000 Mhz as well, to see if you get it stable with 3200 Mhz timings.

Oh, don't use the fancy ON/OFF buttons in BIOS. Instead, go under Memory section and do it from there. Also, disable OC Genie 4 (at OFF position).
Thanks for this. I do use XMP so I will try disabling that and doing it manually. I will also try the RAM at 3000, though if I can't get 3200 like the product says, I will probably still return it.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
The cpu might need a bump in memory controller voltage. 3200MHz is quite a jump from the default 2133 and if the memory controller is on the weak side, it might be having issues and failing the OC. If system agent is less than 1.1v, I believe with DDR4 it'll handle upto 1.2v

I've honestly never gotten a straight answer on (OC) when it comes to ram. For some ppl, it means the cpu will probably need a slight OC to get the rated ram stable speed, for some its because it's a factory overclock above and beyond cpu 1:1 default tested speeds, for some it simply means you'll need a mobo that is OC capable. So it can be any of the three, in any combination.
Well, the RAM OC (aka XMP) isn't that complex when you tear it down.
Here's how it's on the Intel side (since OP has Intel build). I'll also cover consumer grade chipsets, leaving enterprise grade chipsets out for now (e.g X99, Q170, C236), except most popular business grade chipset (e.g B150). Leaving us B- H- and Z-series MoBos (the most common in consumer PCs running Intel CPU). I'll also cover only DDR4 RAM chipsets, leaving DDR3 RAM chipsets (e.g B75, H81, Z97) out for now.

With B- and H- series MoBos, the RAM can't be OCd above JEDEC standard, which is:
100-series MoBos (e.g B150, H170): 2133 Mhz
200-series MoBos (e.g B250, H270): 2133 Mhz and 2400 Mhz
300-series MoBos (e.g B360, H370): 2133 Mhz, 2400 Mhz and 2666 Mhz

Only Z-series MoBos, across all series support faster RAM speed than JEDEC standard (e.g Z170, Z270, Z370).

To make sure that the RAM you pick for your Z-series MoBo does operate at 3000/3200/3600 etc speeds, one should look MoBo memory QVL list to confirm which RAM sets MoBo manufacturer was able to get running at given speeds.

Once you get the RAM listed in memory QVL, getting it running at 3000/3200/3600 etc speeds is as simple as enabling only XMP from BIOS, without any additional fiddle. At least that's what i've seen so far.

However, when you pick a RAM that isn't listed in memory QVL or is listed but running at slower speeds and the XMP doesn't stick, then the manual RAM OC begins.
  1. Try entering the rated frequency and timings manually.
  2. If that fails, you might need to loosen the timings to get the RAM to work at it's rated speed.
  3. Some people have increased RAM voltage to get the RAM frequency to stay stable.
  4. Others have put a slight OC on CPU which can help stabilize RAM frequency. *
* That only works if you're running K-series CPU. If you're running non-K series CPU with Z-series MoBo, you can't OC your CPU since it has locked multiplier.

Of course, those "one click OC" features in BIOS (OC Genie, Gaming Boost etc) usually overwrite the RAM XMP or manual RAM OC. Same is with MoBo utility software. For MSI that one is MSI Command Center.
When i 1st got my Skylake build, i did install that MSI Command Center as well. Sure, it has fancy GUI but it also completely failed to detect my RAM (which is listed in memory QVL). No matter how i tried to set my RAM to run at 3000 Mhz from BIOS (which remained stable), once i booted into OS and MSI Command Center started, it overwrote my BIOS settings and set my RAM running at 2133 Mhz.
Only fix was completely uninstalling MSI Command Center, which i did. Without MSI Command Center, my RAM speed stays at 3000 Mhz without issues. So, there's that as well.

Thanks for this. I do use XMP so I will try disabling that and doing it manually. I will also try the RAM at 3000, though if I can't get 3200 like the product says, I will probably still return it.
If you can't get 3200 Mhz out of your RAM without too much fiddle and when you do return it, check the MoBo memory QVL list and pick a RAM set from there, where MSI has tested and confirmed that the RAM does operate at given speed. This way, you have more assurance that the RAM will run with it's rated speeds.
MSI Z170A SLI memory QVL, link: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z170A-SLI#support-mem-4

That's what i also did with my MSI Z170A Gaming M5 MoBo. I checked the memory QVL and specifically picked my Kingston HyperX Savage 3000 Mhz [HX430C15SB2K2/8] since according to MSI, that RAM does run at 3000 Mhz and even when all 4x RAM slots are populated, which i ended up doing to get 16GB in total (since the set is 2x 4GB and i'm running 2x sets).
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
QVL isn't worth the price of the page it's written on. There's several thousand individual model numbers just in gskill trident Z lineup, that doesn't include the sniper, trident x, FlareX, RipJaws iv and V and value lines. Then add in every other vendor, every other individual model number etc and you'll end up with a QVL that's several hundred thousand listings long. Nobody is going to spend the manpower, cost in ram, time and effort to cover everything like that, test everything at rated speeds, default speeds etc.

So the mobo vendors grab a few local sticks, some they have on hand, some prototype and donated sticks and test those.

The gimmick is that there's only a handful of ram OEMs, so half of the ram tested has already been tested. Just how many times does it require testing Samsung B-die in the Trident-Z at 3200MHz, and the Patriot Elite, and the Adata XPG, and every other stick that uses that series of ic's, before further testing becomes redundant since it's all the same ram with nothing but a different colored heatsink.

The QVL is nothing but a tool to say that that kind of ram, in that kind of kit worked at that speed. So others will too. Take it with a grain of salt.

You picked a 2x4Gb set directly off the QVL. That's nice. There's absolutely nothing saying that 2x (2x4Gb) kits are compliant or will have any increased chance of success. Could very well be that that ram in DP works just fine, but in 2x DP will not, requiring 2x SP instead.
 
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Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
QVL isn't worth the price of the page it's written on. There's several thousand individual model numbers just in gskill trident Z lineup, that doesn't include the sniper, trident x, FlareX, RipJaws iv and V and value lines. Then add in every other vendor, every other individual model number etc and you'll end up with a QVL that's several hundred thousand listings long. Nobody is going to spend the manpower, cost in ram, time and effort to cover everything like that, test everything at rated speeds, default speeds etc.

So the mobo vendors grab a few local sticks, some they have on hand, some prototype and donated sticks and test those.

The gimmick is that there's only a handful of ram OEMs, so half of the ram tested has already been tested. Just how many times does it require testing Samsung B-die in the Trident-Z at 3200MHz, and the Patriot Elite, and the Adata XPG, and every other stick that uses that series of ic's, before further testing becomes redundant since it's all the same ram with nothing but a different colored heatsink.

The QVL is nothing but a tool to say that that kind of ram, in that kind of kit worked at that speed. So others will too. Take it with a grain of salt.
While it's true that MoBo manufacturers can't possibly test all RAM sets that are out there, the most common ones are still tested. And while you may not take memory QVL as valid source of information, many others do. I'd rather take the MoBo manufacturer's approval that the RAM i picked out from memory QVL list works as tested, rather than biting the bullet and going with untested RAM.

Almost same can be said about RAM mixing, e.g 2x 8GB individual sticks vs 2x 8GB in a set. Why would you listen RAM manufacturers and buy the set while buying individual sticks can result in a cheaper price? Here, it's the same biting the bullet where you'd either go for a guaranteed fact that two sticks in a set are working together or take the 50:50 chance of individual sticks working together.

In the end, it's all about how much assurance anybody needs before making a purchase.

You picked a 2x4Gb set directly off the QVL. That's nice. There's absolutely nothing saying that 2x (2x4Gb) kits are compliant or will have any increased chance of success. Could very well be that that ram in DP works just fine, but in 2x DP will not, requiring 2x SP instead.
Well, MSI tested that my RAM [HX430C15SB2K2/8] works at 2666 Mhz and 3000 Mhz when 1, 2 and 4 slots are populated with the same RAM. So, from there i took the assurance that buying 2nd set has highest chance of success working together with 1st set.
My MoBo memory QVL, written there in plain black and white, link: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z170A-GAMING-M5#support-mem-4

... right, memory QVL doesn't mean nothing to you. But to me, it does matter and it also worked without issues, proving (at least to me) that memory QVL has it's value. If memory QVL wouldn't have any value then it would be fruitless for MoBo manufacturers to compose and publish it. But somehow, all MoBo manufacturers are still doing that.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
I think in almost 40 years of building pc's I've never once actually used a set of ram that matched the QVL. Ever. I've come close, using same speed and same model type, but the serial code would be different, the ram used was red, the ram tested was black. Essentially the exact same ram.

You know as well as I that mixing is mixing. Doesn't make a difference if it's the exact same ram, from the same store, of the same clip, one set behind the other. I've had ram that was 9 numbers different. Literally made seconds apart, and totally incompatible since it was a different batch of silicon. Even if you look at a 4stick kit, they are almost never 4 consecutive numbers, because even the same batch can have different impurities, especially towards the outside of the sheet after its spun out. Which is why if you want 4 sticks, you get a 4 stick kit, the chances of incompatability between 1 stick and the other 3 is greatly increased. A + B might be good, C + D might be good, even A + D might be good but what if B + C isn't. Or B + D. Or A + C. Or A + B + D and not C.
Factory tested, swapped, compatability proven and guaranteed. You got lucky. And that's not counting on whether your cpu is happy or not with 4 sticks of single rank, or 2 sets of dual rank.

Wasn't so long ago Asus had huge ram issues where 1 4Gb stick was fine, either single or dual rank, but to get the full 8Gb both 4Gb sticks needed to be single rank. Ryzen is having similar issues now, for 3200 and over, best bet is single rank ram, even with 2x sticks. And anything 4 stick over 2400 needs single rank, dual rank ram has too many issues.

And that mobo and ram combination wasn't tested with multiple different cpus. There's plenty of Ryzen 3700x having ram issues at 3200MHz, but not at 3600MHz, even though a 3600 has no issues with either.

A busted watch is right twice a day. The sun will shine on a dog's butt at least once in its lifetime. Your ram worked at its rated speed, even with two kits. Doesn't prove anything beyond that, doesn't mean identical kits will work for anyone else. Doesn't mean they won't. It's still pot-luck, QVL or no QVL.

QVL is Qualified Vendor List. Not Qualified Ram List. It only means they've tested several different ram at various speeds from various vendors. The ones not on the list either failed or weren't tested, and the QVL doesn't say which. It also won't tell you that a particular ram they tested on a particular mobo with a particular cpu is no guarantee that that exact same ram will work on yours. There's plenty of ram out there that gets different ic's, different ranks, exact same model number. Watched a video a while back on removing the heatsink from ram. 2x exactly the same, identical Patriot sticks, one was Samsung single rank, one was Micron dual rank. Matching model numbers.

There's only One guarantee about mixing kits, regardless of brand, model, speeds, color, timings or other similarities. There are NO guarantees. Period.

Oh, maybe re-read that QVL. Your ram HX430C15SB2K2/8 was definitely not tested 4 slot. HX430C15SB2K4/16, yes and HX430C15SB2K4/32 yes, as those are 4 stick kits, even MSI isn't brave enough to mix 2 different 2stick kits and guarantee compatability.

HX4 : HyperX DDR4
30 : 3000MHz
C15 : Cas 15
SB2K : who knows, most likely model/heatsink/color etc.
2 : sticks in kit as tested
/8 : Gb

HX430C15SB2K4/16 and HX430C15SB2K2/8 are quite different.
 
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Sep 14, 2019
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Just wanted to make a note that I forgot to mention. I do not know if it matters but my 32gbs of ram is in a 2x16gb format.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
That can be a benefit. It's easier on the memory controller to deal with just 2 sticks, 4 is more work. And anything that makes a cpu work harder just raises its running temps.

But I would see about maybe bumping up the vccio or system agent 0.05v or to @ 1.1 to 1.2v. That's more common on overclocks for memory stability, but can still apply since your ram at 3200MHz is considerably above the 2133MHz that the memory controller runs at.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Oh, maybe re-read that QVL. Your ram HX430C15SB2K2/8 was definitely not tested 4 slot. HX430C15SB2K4/16, yes and HX430C15SB2K4/32 yes, as those are 4 stick kits, even MSI isn't brave enough to mix 2 different 2stick kits and guarantee compatability.

HX4 : HyperX DDR4
30 : 3000MHz
C15 : Cas 15
SB2K : who knows, most likely model/heatsink/color etc.
2 : sticks in kit as tested
/8 : Gb

HX430C15SB2K4/16 and HX430C15SB2K2/8 are quite different.
I did re-read it and i see my RAM being tested by MSI in 4 slots, proof too:
1st check mark = 1 DIMM tested in one slot, 2nd check mark = 2 DIMMs tested in 2 slots and 3rd check mark = 4 DIMMs tested in 4 slots successfully.
Here, i'm expecting same kind of proof (screenshot) from your end to back up your words of it not being tested in 4 slots.

With RAM mixing, yes, i know the hardship with it. Though, lets leave that discussion to more appropriate topic. (Don't want to derail this topic any further/longer.)

Just wanted to make a note that I forgot to mention. I do not know if it matters but my 32gbs of ram is in a 2x16gb format.
Your MoBo supports up to 64GB of RAM, so that shouldn't be an issue.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
They skipped flex mode. Can't use 3 DIMMs? At all, ever? And can only pair up single sticks, but not all 4? I seriously doubt that they mixed kits.

More likely those are the slots tested in. As in a single stick kit was tested in 1x A channel and then tested in 1x B channel. The dual kits were rotated, A1/B1, A2/B1, A1/B2, A2/B2 etc. 2 sticks tested in both channels, single and dual channel modes.

There's absolutely no way msi is going to guarantee the compliance and compatability of mixed kits from an outside vendor. Kingston, Crucial, gskill, SkHynix, Samsung, none of them guarantee that even their own kits when mixed are compatible.

That'd be like you guaranteeing your neighbors transmission will last 300k when even the factory only warrantys it for 100k.
 

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