Question Does the Selore&S Global Docking Station give 100w ?

[Manuel Jordan]

Hello Friends

My uncle bought this laptop:

Dell Inspiron Plus 16" Touchscreen Laptop - Intel Core Ultra 9 185H - 1920 x 1200 - Windows 11 - 32GB RAM - 2TB SSD

Even when the laptop itself has the classic Power Jack (the cylinder) the Laptop Charger is USB Type C.

Therefore

Laptop Charger -----> (USB Type C) Laptop Yes
Laptop Charger -----> (Power Jack) Laptop No

The laptop charger has the following data

Dell 100.0w AC Adapter
Dell Output 5.0v --- 3.0A/15.0W,
9.0v --- 3.0A/27.0w,
15.0v --- 3.0A/45.0w,
20.0v --- 5.0A/100.0w or
12.0-20.0v---5.0A max./100w max
INPUT 100-240v~1.7A 50-60Hz
Model No Dell LA100PM220

Thus practically is this one:

Dell Laptop Charger 100W Watt USB Type C Thunderbolt 3 AC Power Adapter DA100PM220 LA100PM220 HA100PM220

Because I am not an expert: we are assuming the Laptop must receive from the Charger 100W (Correct me if we are wrong)

Now, the reason of this post. Because my uncle needs the USB-C port free for other uses, the option exists to buy this Docking Station:

USB C Docking Station Dual HDMI Monitor,USB C to Dual HDMI Adapter with 2 HDMI Ports,PD Charging,SD/TF,USB A&C 3.0 Ports,USB C Hub HDMI for Dell XPS/HP/Lenovo/Surface/Yoga etc

It has a lot of buys and a well amount of nice customer reviews

The main concern and reason of this post

Question;

• Does this Docking Station really have an output of 100w?

First: If you see the 5th Figure of the Docking Station link, theoretically applies the following sequence:

Dell Laptop Charger (100w) ----> Docking (100w) ----> Laptop

Thus theoretically, is it safe buy the docking station to be used for the laptop?

Second: but in the Docking Station link it says:

• [Speedy charging 100W] This dual hdmi adapter for 2 monitors with a USB-C power delivery port(near the SD/TF) can charge your laptop anytime; hdmi hub for multiple monitors input 100W, output 87W. Please Note: Power charger & charging cable is not included in the package. Note:The second USB C port is only for data transfer.

As you can see it does mention of 87w. So I'm confused if the output is 100w or 87w ?

Third: About the italic part, there fits the original Dell Laptop Charger
Fourth: the other reason to buy this docking station is use in parallel 2 Monitors through HDMI

Therefore the expected functions and goals by the Docking are:

1. Serve as a bridge between the Dell Laptop Charger to the Laptop to deliver 100w as output
2. Connect 2 HDMI monitors at the same time

But we need an explicit confirmation for the first point

Thanks for your understanding

 

[Aeacus]

But we need an explicit confirmation for the first point

Can't give 100% certain answer, but from my knowledge and based on the amazon listing, it is so;

When hub is used to power just the laptop, hub can output 100W.
When hub is used to power two HDMI monitors, hub can output 87W.

HDMI connector itself also carries power, 5V and at least 55mA. But i've seen HDMI connectors that can sustain 700mA as well. So, anywhere between 0,25W and 3.5W is what is going through the HDMI connector.

Just think a bit;
When hub takes in 100W and needs to output 100W, then from where it can take the power to power: two HDMI ports, two USB type-A ports, one USB type-C (only data) port and SD/TF card slot?
It has to take the power from the wall. And when it does so, it can not provide 100W to the laptop, instead, it is limited to 87W, as said in the listing.

Because I am not an expert: we are assuming the Laptop must receive from the Charger 100W (Correct me if we are wrong)

Not necessarily.

100W is basically "fast charge", but laptop can take in lower amounts of watts as well. It then charges the battery slower.
Based on the charger, the wattage input range can be from 15W to 100W. Now, it may be so or it may not be. Official laptop specs doesn't say at what wattage range the laptop accepts.

Best to contact Dell and ask them directly. Could be that the laptop charge input is between 15W and 27W. Or is it fixed to 45W. I don't know. Best to ask Dell that.

 

[Manuel Jordan]

Huge thanks for the reply

Can't give 100% certain answer, but from my knowledge and based on the amazon listing, it is so;

When hub is used to power just the laptop, hub can output 100W.
When hub is used to power two HDMI monitors, hub can output 87W.

Yes, it is correct

Just think a bit;
When hub takes in 100W and needs to output 100W, then from where it can take the power to power: two HDMI ports, two USB type-A ports, one USB type-C (only data) port and SD/TF card slot?
It has to take the power from the wall. And when it does so, it can not provide 100W to the laptop, instead, it is limited to 87W, as said in the listing.

Yes, it has a lot of sense, but because hardware enhances throughout the years, we assumed that perhaps there something internal that does a trick, I mean always provide the 100w

Not necessarily.

100W is basically "fast charge", but laptop can take in lower amounts of watts as well. It then charges the battery slower.
Based on the charger, the wattage input range can be from 15W to 100W. Now, it may be so or it may not be. Official laptop specs doesn't say at what wattage range the laptop accepts.

Interesting

Best to contact Dell and ask them directly. Could be that the laptop charge input is between 15W and 27W. Or is it fixed to 45W. I don't know. Best to ask Dell that.

It will be done, meanwhile, just doing two questions:

• Question1: How is safe for the laptop if it receives 85w instead of 100w?

Furthermore if the laptop can work in peace with 85w.

• Question2: Why from the beginning the original Dell Laptop charger is not built to bring an output of 85w?

Thanks for your understanding

 

[Aeacus]

Yes, it has a lot of sense, but because hardware enhances throughout the years, we assumed that perhaps there something internal that does a trick, I mean always provide the 100w

At current level of human technology (and actually due to the laws of physics, namely 1st law of thermodynamics), nothing can be created through thin air. Meaning, you can't take 100W worth of power and magically create ~113W out of it.

In the same sense, as of why there can not be a perpetual motion machine.

Question1: How is safe for the laptop if it receives 85w instead of 100w?

For battery long-term health and lifespan, charging slower with lower wattage is actually far more beneficial than charging it fast with higher wattage.
It comes down to excess heat, generated during charging. Fast charging creates far more heat than slow charging and that heat is the main culprit that can damage the battery.
Surely you've heard/seen stories of batteries getting way too hot and even exploding during charging.

Further reading if interested: https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/f...ing-which-is-better-for-your-lithium-battery/

Why from the beginning the original Dell Laptop charger is not built to bring an output of 85w?

Depends on the li-ion battery the laptop has and what wattage inputs are deemed acceptable for that battery.

Rather than blaming Dell over it, i'd blame the 3rd party hub that you're looking at.
That hub is created as: "one ring to rule them all", since it supports plethora of devices based on the amazon listing;

Dell XPS13/15/17; Dell latitude 5530/5430/5431/5420/7390/5540/5420/5500/7490; Dell Inspiron 5420/7420/7425; Dell Precision 5470/77680/7780; Dell Vostro 5410/5620; Lenovo Yoga 720/910/920/930; HP Elitebook 630/640/645/650/655 G9; Elitebook 840/850 G6/G7/G8/G9; Surface Pro 9/8/7; Microsoft Surface Book 2/ Surface Go/ Surface Laptop 3; iPhone 15 Series; ASUS ROG Ally; Steam Deck

Maybe one (or several) of those devices can accept the 85W or 87W the hub can supply when HDMI ports are in use. I don't know, haven't checked the possible power draw of those devices. But it could be that you lucked out and the laptop you have can take in either 100W or 45W, since that is what the Dell charger is rated at on it's two highest power outputs.

 

[Manuel Jordan]

Again, huge thanks for the polite reply

At current level of human technology (and actually due to the laws of physics, namely 1st law of thermodynamics), nothing can be created through thin air. Meaning, you can't take 100W worth of power and magically create ~113W out of it

Agree, now is absolutely clear is not possible have 100w to 100w with the ports being used at real time

For battery long-term health and lifespan, charging slower with lower wattage is actually far more beneficial than charging it fast with higher wattage.
It comes down to excess heat, generated during charging. Fast charging creates far more heat than slow charging and that heat is the main culprit that can damage the battery.

Interesting and thanks for that feedback

But I meant about my concern about the 15w of difference about the input of the laptop itself. I meant (and sorry if I am mistaken) if the battery is 100% charged (or even 95% as max) I am assuming all the power goes forward to the laptop itself to be used for the monitor and all the internal components ... and if theoretically it always expects 100w, what happens if it receives 85w? I hope my point is clear now

Surely you've heard/seen stories of batteries getting way too hot and even exploding during charging.

Really few times

Further reading if interested: https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/f...ing-which-is-better-for-your-lithium-battery/

Thanks for the link

Depends on the li-ion battery the laptop has and what wattage inputs are deemed acceptable for that battery.

Ok, understood

Rather than blaming Dell over it, i'd blame the 3rd party hub that you're looking at.

Just being curious

That hub is created as: "one ring to rule them all", since it supports plethora of devices based on the amazon listing;

I am assuming that is for sales. It has more of 19k of reviews

Maybe one (or several) of those devices can accept the 85W or 87W the hub can supply when HDMI ports are in use. I don't know, haven't checked the possible power draw of those devices.

It according the branches of different laptops

But it could be that you lucked out and the laptop you have can take in either 100W or 45W, since that is what the Dell charger is rated at on it's two highest power outputs.

I hope my uncle does the call to Dell and receives the most correct feedback

Thanks for all

 

[Aeacus]

But I meant about my concern about the 15w of difference about the input of the laptop itself. I meant (and sorry if I am mistaken) if the battery is 100% charged (or even 95% as max) I am assuming all the power goes forward to the laptop itself to be used for the monitor and all the internal components ... and if theoretically it always expects 100w, what happens if it receives 85w? I hope my point is clear now

This i can't actually answer fully since it depends on how the laptop power draw is designed.

Explanation;
Laptops can be designed in two ways;
1. Power cord charges only the battery and laptop itself works only by taking the power from the battery.
Pros of this is cheaper manufacturing cost and ability for laptop to draw higher power than what the charger can provide (since all the power comes directly from the battery).
Downside of this is, that when internal battery dies, you can't use the laptop anymore. And battery also wears out faster, since it is in constant use, regardless if there is power cord plugged to the mains or not.

2. Power cord both charges the battery and can also provide direct power to laptop's operation. While when the power cord is plugged to the mains, laptop uses power from power cord. Laptop uses battery only when there is no connection to the mains.
Pros of this is the ability to use the laptop even when battery in it dies. And it also makes the battery to last far longer (when using the laptop mainly with power cord plugged to the mains).
Downside is higher manufacturing cost and laptop not being able to draw more power than charger can provide. (Unless it is designed as such, where when there's higher power draw than charger can provide, the laptop then takes the remaining power from battery.)

E.g my ancient laptop: Asus Eee PC 701 from 2007; It's battery is long dead over the years, but since it has battery that can be removed by user, i can plug the power cord into the mains and still use the laptop without issues, regardless if the dead battery is plugged to the laptop or not.
But when looking at mobile phones, those devices will not work when there is 0 charge in battery, even when charger is plugged to the mains. You have to wait until there's enough battery charge, before you can even turn on the phone.

Regardless if it is #1 or #2 design, it depends a lot on laptop's own power draw and what is being done with the laptop.

Web browsing, doing office tasks (e.g Excel), uses minimal amount of power. Well, more than idle but still quite less. While watching videos/movies uses more power and gaming would use the most amount of power (since then, CPU and GPU would be almost, if not fully, utilized).

To give some examples with numbers (perhaps easier to understand than the somewhat complicated text i wrote);
#1 design - Let's say laptop needs 120W (e.g gaming). It takes all that 120W from the battery and when charger provides 100W during that time, it takes longer for battery to get empty, compared to when charger is only able to provide 85W.
#2 design - The same 120W power draw. Laptop then gets 100W from the charger and takes the remaining 20W from battery. Or when charger provides 85W, then laptop takes reminder, 35W from battery, until battery is empty.

Now, there is a difference between the two designs in this example;
on #1 design, once the battery completely drains, laptop will shut off and can not be used at all, until there's enough charge in the battery for it to power on again.
on #2 design, once the battery completely drains, laptop can't be used for heavy utilization tasks (e.g gaming), but lower power draw tasks, like web browsing or watching movies, the charger is able to provide enough power. And even charge the battery with excess power.

Since it's unknown which power delivery design the laptop uses, the result is different.

and if theoretically it always expects 100w, what happens if it receives 85w? I hope my point is clear now

There always can be a chance that laptop won't work at all (regardless if #1 or #2 design), if it doesn't receive 100W. Could be that laptop is designed to receive only 100W from charger and nothing less. If it receives less, it doesn't work at all (battery won't charge).
Hence why ask Dell how things exactly are.

 

[Manuel Jordan]

As usual huge thanks for the information

This i can't actually answer fully since it depends on how the laptop power draw is designed.

It has a lot of sense

Explanation;
Laptops can be designed in two ways;
1. Power cord charges only the battery and laptop itself works only by taking the power from the battery.
Pros of this is cheaper manufacturing cost and ability for laptop to draw higher power than what the charger can provide (since all the power comes directly from the battery).
Downside of this is, that when internal battery dies, you can't use the laptop anymore. And battery also wears out faster, since it is in constant use, regardless if there is power cord plugged to the mains or not.

2. Power cord both charges the battery and can also provide direct power to laptop's operation. While when the power cord is plugged to the mains, laptop uses power from power cord. Laptop uses battery only when there is no connection to the mains.
Pros of this is the ability to use the laptop even when battery in it dies. And it also makes the battery to last far longer (when using the laptop mainly with power cord plugged to the mains).
Downside is higher manufacturing cost and laptop not being able to draw more power than charger can provide. (Unless it is designed as such, where when there's higher power draw than charger can provide, the laptop then takes the remaining power from battery.)

It seems many of the laptops I've seen are based on model 2

E.g my ancient laptop: Asus Eee PC 701 from 2007; It's battery is long dead over the years, but since it has battery that can be removed by user, i can plug the power cord into the mains and still use the laptop without issues, regardless if the dead battery is plugged to the laptop or not.

I have a Toshiba where the battery is currently damage, Ubuntu OS indicated/highlight an important warning message. Thus to avoid a possible explosion I removed the battery and put something to hide the block where used to

To give some examples with numbers (perhaps easier to understand than the somewhat complicated text i wrote);
#1 design - Let's say laptop needs 120W (e.g gaming). It takes all that 120W from the battery and when charger provides 100W during that time, it takes longer for battery to get empty, compared to when charger is only able to provide 85W.
#2 design - The same 120W power draw. Laptop then gets 100W from the charger and takes the remaining 20W from battery. Or when charger provides 85W, then laptop takes reminder, 35W from battery, until battery is empty.

Thanks for the example

Now, there is a difference between the two designs in this example;
on #1 design, once the battery completely drains, laptop will shut off and can not be used at all, until there's enough charge in the battery for it to power on again.

Very interesting, how common is that design/approach for laptops? Perhaps was a common approach in 90s? 2000's?

on #2 design, once the battery completely drains, laptop can't be used for heavy utilization tasks (e.g gaming), but lower power draw tasks, like web browsing or watching movies, the charger is able to provide enough power. And even charge the battery with excess power.

Has sense

Since it's unknown which power delivery design the laptop uses, the result is different.

Is there a special code printed in the battery itself where indicates what approach is used? I mean 1 or 2?

There always can be a chance that laptop won't work at all (regardless if #1 or #2 design), if it doesn't receive 100W. Could be that laptop is designed to receive only 100W from charger and nothing less. If it receives less, it doesn't work at all (battery won't charge).

Our main concern was the risk to cause a permanent failure in the mobo itself due an incomplete power

Thanks a lot for your support

 

[Aeacus]

Very interesting, how common is that design/approach for laptops? Perhaps was a common approach in 90s? 2000's?

Given that this design is common place today with all smart phones and maybe tablets too (don't know enough about tablets), i'd say it would be quite likely that modern laptops also have that design. Since this design is cheaper to manufacture than the #2. And as how current day production is mostly set up, it is all about saving costs and making things as cheap as possible.

Good example would be smart phones themselves.
Now, i don't know if you know (or remember) how older mobile phones were. E.g Nokia 3310 era. In those mobile phones, they were easy to disassemble and also to replace internal li-ion battery. So, when battery died, you bought a new battery and continued to use your phone (i still have several such old Nokia phones in cupboard).

But look how things are today. None of the smart phones can be disassembled. Let alone changing the battery. When battery dies, you have to throw away complete phone, which otherwise works fine. Only in some repair shops, tech can take the phone apart and replace the internal battery. But taking phones apart isn't easy and e.g Apple has made it as hard as possible. I've seen Apple phone repairs where when display needs to be changed, the old display is smashed in and removed in pieces, since it's all glued solidly shut.

Is there a special code printed in the battery itself where indicates what approach is used? I mean 1 or 2?

I don't know if there's any code as such, but to have design #2, the laptop internals must have power traces directly from the power-in port to the MoBo, while another set goes from power-in port to battery. If there are no two sets of power traces (cables), then only source where laptop can get it's power, is only from battery.

I'm unsure if Dell would disclose such info for end users.

Our main concern was the risk to cause a permanent failure in the mobo itself due an incomplete power

Too less power won't damage the MoBo. If anything, it could damage the battery if the battery won't receive the watts amount it needs.

For MoBo, heat and dust are far severe issues. Same with dropping the laptop and liquid damage as well.

 

[Manuel Jordan]

Thanks again for the valuable feedback

Given that this design is common place today with all smart phones and maybe tablets too (don't know enough about tablets), i'd say it would be quite likely that modern laptops also have that design. Since this design is cheaper to manufacture than the #2. And as how current day production is mostly set up, it is all about saving costs and making things as cheap as possible.

Has sense, the main concern about that is the durability

Good example would be smart phones themselves.
Now, i don't know if you know (or remember) how older mobile phones were. E.g Nokia 3310 era. In those mobile phones, they were easy to disassemble and also to replace internal li-ion battery. So, when battery died, you bought a new battery and continued to use your phone (i still have several such old Nokia phones in cupboard).

Yes, I remember clearly that technology. Even more, I have an old cellphone Samsung working as clock alarm

But look how things are today. None of the smart phones can be disassembled. Let alone changing the battery. When battery dies, you have to throw away complete phone, which otherwise works fine. Only in some repair shops, tech can take the phone apart and replace the internal battery. But taking phones apart isn't easy and e.g Apple has made it as hard as possible. I've seen Apple phone repairs where when display needs to be changed, the old display is smashed in and removed in pieces, since it's all glued solidly shut

Yes, it is not good for the customers, because that kind of devices are not cheap

I don't know if there's any code as such, but to have design #2, the laptop internals must have power traces directly from the power-in port to the MoBo, while another set goes from power-in port to battery. If there are no two sets of power traces (cables), then only source where laptop can get it's power, is only from battery.

Has sense, but open the laptop to know that and without lose the warranty is not an option

I'm unsure if Dell would disclose such info for end users.

I thought that would already exists a kind of standard. Some code in the laptop charger or in the laptop case itself
And it for all the manufacturers

Too less power won't damage the MoBo. If anything, it could damage the battery if the battery won't receive the watts amount it needs.

Oh ok, understood. Anyway the battery is not always available to be buy it throughout the years.

For MoBo, heat and dust are far severe issues. Same with dropping the laptop and liquid damage as well.

Absolutely agree

Huge thanks for all

 

[Aeacus]

Has sense, the main concern about that is the durability

Sadly, planned obsolescence is very much a thing nowadays.

Manufacturers deliberately make, either inferior product or design flaws into the hardware, so that after certain time, the device becomes unusable. That is reinforced with everything built-in and glued shut, so that user can't even repair their device. Instead, they have to buy a new device.

Further reading (e.g Batteries chapter): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#Contrived_durability

Due to that, at current moment, there are several electronic products, who's repair either isn't cost effective (repair will cost more than same product brand new), or can't be repaired at all (either the device is glued together and can't be opened at all, without further damage, or there are no spare parts).
Apple is #1 forerunner in the planned obsolescence.

In the good 'ol days, there used to be that when you bought your product, it was designed to last decades. Now, most products last ~2 years (usual warranty length in EU) and after that, it's anyone's guess how long it will last. Usually not long at all.

Within PC hardware community and namely desktop PCs; when buying items from reputable brands, those usually last a long time. E.g my Skylake build is ~8 years old now and still going strong. Newest bigger component that i have, is my monitor. But that too is now 5 years old and doesn't show signs of dying. But mice - those wear out fast. ~2 years and mice develops a fault or two. But mice gets used the most as well with desktop PC. So, it wearing out relatively fast is somewhat understandable.