DONNNNNT tell me they are not compatible...

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Just some explaination for people who want the real story:

The whole thing started with the first bi-directional CPUs. The manufacturers had to explain the difference between a uni-directional and a bi-directional bus. Because if they just said both CPUs had a bus frequency of 100MHz it wouldn't be fair since the bi-directional bus had the double speed. So they started to use the "effective frequency" instead.

And today if you want a fair comparision with Intel and older AMD CPUs you have to use the "effective frequency".
 
Actually it's the same thing. The HT bus runs at a multiple of 200MHz, in this case 5x, and has full bandwidth in both directions. So 5x200=1000, but they sometimes call it 2000 because it's bi-directional. A lot of busses in the PC have to share bandwidth in both directions.

So calling it 2000 is kind of like saying I live near a 140MPH freeway rather than a 70MPH one-way road. But in reality the 140MPH is just 70MPH in each direction.
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Thanks for clearing that up. So does that apply the samething for Intel 800FSB? So it would be only 400FSB? 8)
 
That Mobo is very buggy........I'd use a different one if I were you and use at lest a 3500+......not much price difference but a lot better performance difference between the 2
 
Actually it's the same thing. The HT bus runs at a multiple of 200MHz, in this case 5x, and has full bandwidth in both directions. So 5x200=1000, but they sometimes call it 2000 because it's bi-directional. A lot of busses in the PC have to share bandwidth in both directions.

So calling it 2000 is kind of like saying I live near a 140MPH freeway rather than a 70MPH one-way road. But in reality the 140MPH is just 70MPH in each direction.
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Thanks for clearing that up. So does that apply the samething for Intel 800FSB? So it would be only 400FSB? 8)

The P4 bus is quad pumped and 64 bit wide, the 800MHz bus runs as 200MHz real speed, but can send data 4 x every clock cycle... The up and down traffic are shared on the same bandwith.

Hypertransport is double data rate and runs at a REAL speed of 1GHz on AMD A64's (to be increased to 1.4GHz come socket M2) and can send and receive at the same time, so I guess you could get away with saying it runs at 4GHz, but HT on A64's is only 16bit.

So to work out total bandwith of the 2 platforms...

Intel = 800 million x 64 = 6.4 GB/s
AMD = (2000 million up + 2000 million down) x 16 = 8GB/s
AMD M2 = (2800 million up + 2800 million down) x 16 = 11.2 GB/s

Also remember Intel has to push all memory access across that same bus, where as AMD has the on chip memory controller.
 
No, you "would say" 2GHz, it's 1000MHz and bi-directional. 1000x2=4.

But you really have to be CAREFULL in making such marketing statements, because some busses are more dependant that others on that bi-directional nature. Take the PCIe x16 slot, it's bi-directional but for the most part only uses the bus in one direction.

To be accurate, calling something 2000MHz when it's really 1000MHz in two directions is misleading and completely innaccurate. It's like saying your 2.4GHz telephone is 4.8GHz because you have bi-directional communication, yet if someone was to tune into the phone's communication frequency they'd find both the transmitter and receiver on the 2.4GHz signal.
 
What mobo are u talking about MSI?......because i jsut read soe reviews on the DFI lanparty UT nf-4 Ultra D and it sounds perfect for overclocking and stuff. 8) so im thinkin about getting that instead.

About the 3200+ ive been told that i can easily OC it to 2.45 if not 2.2

thats good nuff. Ive changed my plasn about the vid card....changing it to eVGA-nVIDIA 6800GS due to budget issues heh.
[/u]
 
You could afford a 7800GT if you got the eVGA deal with the free eVGA motherboard.
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How good is the eVGA MOBO? Will it work good with the OPty 170? Does the mobo OC good as well? Any my last question, does it have sata2 capability, ata/100, sli, and what not? Because I might go that route. I was thinking of getting the ABIT A8N SLI Guru(I think it's called that. Not 100% sure). What is your take on that mobo with the OPTY 170? Good? :twisted:
 
It's a good board, fast and powerfull, a great SLI solution, same chipset SATA/ATA controller, etc. It's a rebranded Jetway 939GT4-SLI, a board highly praised by Anandtech. I know the Opty 170 will work on it, but I'm not sure the BIOS will know that it's an Opty, you'll have to check around.

All nF4 boards support the Opty, but full recognition is reliant on BIOS. According to This Forum the 170 works fine.
 
For whatever it's worth...the Jetway board erm hasn't been too friendly to me. In terms of oc'ing it was about as useful as my old a8n-sli deluxe...dropping out around 240fsb. It had issues with my pat xblk too... I've tested a 3000+, 3500+ and a 3800+ x2 in it, with equal results. A thorough search of different forums provided the answers i was looking for. Jetway board suxor for oc'n and with pretty much all TCCD chips. It's a very small % of people that are getting good oc's with it. My a8n-sli prem on the other hand topped out at about 330 on the same ram with a lower multi. Now, i have tried other kinds of ram, with the same or similarly low results: such as kingston hyperX, and ocz plat 2gb. You'd think dividers would help...meh ( >< )...So anyway, yea that's a great deal, getting the free mobo is still a FREE mobo. Keep it and resell it on ebay or somethin, then get a different mobo.

If you're an avid oc'er DFI is definately the best/only way to go...If you're a novice, you'll have one hellova headache on your hands trying to get it completely stable. If you're going to go with the DFI, go out and make DFI's forums a fav now on a second machine so you can troubleshoot your settings when it isn't staying up long enough to get explorer running.

If you're a novice oc'er, i'd recommend you go with Asus or Epox and a modest OC. Asus's best oc'er is the a8n-sli premium, but has an issue with cpu voltage, where it won't keep a constant voltage, which can and will limit the life on your cpu (maybe from 10 years to 8 or something...but it is still extra stress you don't necessarily need). Epox has it's issues too, but is a fairly consistant oc'er when matched with compliant ram. Both of these boards have been known to hit 300+, and i personally have hit 330 with the asus, which i'm fairly certain was a limit of the tccd ram i have.

GLuck

edit: Rather then make this in to two threads, i just added the xtra info for the guy that was looking for advice on mobo's...
 
Oh, I bitched in the review about what a lousy overclocker it is, 240 bus. But 240 bus is fine for many people, and the performance is great!

Remember that the average Venice 3200+ gets around 2450MHz without going nuts on voltage and cooling. Well, 240 is 2400, close enough when you consider how much money it will cost you to get a slightly higher overclock.
 
Ok, yea if he's not looking for a massive oc then 240 is a good spot to shoot for...but on the other hand, if he's ONLY shooting for 240, that allows for almost every nf4 mobo out there and he might as well pick one that gets a little more constant bios support/updates. I haven't been very happy with the Jetway support there either (although it WAS based in the US...cali somewhere...i had it written down at one point). I had a support tech point me to a bios update for my Jetway that didn't frigging work, which brought my 3000+ rig down for a month and a half while he tried to find me a replacement bios chip...I was more then a lil irritated, because i only called because the bios that was listed didn't have a board specified for it, so i asked him what it was, and he said OH, that's it, that's the latest update...anyway, he blamed the sofware, said it malfunctioned while it was loading the update...even though it updated it just fine (ie no errors...then rebooted with the command line op, when it was done). Truth is, he didn't know what it was, and i shouldn't have trusted him. When i was asking him about my 1T vs 2T timing issue with the TCCD, he said memory hasn't ever been able to even use 1T timings before the 64bit amd's...which is crap, there has been a setting (however nearly useless it might be) since at least the xp's...and the usage of ddr in general. <rant rant rant> <wipes saliva from chin...>

LOL guess i'm still irritated by that.
 
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