News Dubious $4,349 audiophile network switch runs at slow 100 Mbps for 'lower operating noise' — Innuos Phoenix switch ignores reality

[celilo]

Emotion over reality continues as the manufacturers of "Audiophile" cables have transitioned their scam to digital audio.

The same is happening in professional network audio where companies are selling things like a Dante switch for ten times the price of the same switch without the label.

 

[gman68]

Obvious scam. My only question is why even bother to give it exposure by posting about it on this site?

 

[helper800]

What's another $4k when you have spent $80k on your amplifier?

PASS Labs XS300 Monoblock Power Amplifier (Pair)

The Xs series monoblock power amplifiers represent the reference-quality, state-of-art amplifiers from Pass Laboratories. Through years of "spare no effort" endeavor, they represent the true pinnacle of music reproduction. The Xs 300 delivers 300 watts, employs separate power supply and...

www.suncoastaudio.com

And any one of these speakers that cost 450k+

 

[helper800]

Obvious scam. My only question is why even bother to give it exposure by posting about it on this site?

Because awareness will avert potential buyers into getting scammed. If nobody talked about tons of people would be quietly scammed...

 

[USAFRet]

Obvious scam. My only question is why even bother to give it exposure by posting about it on this site?

To expose it for the scam it is.

"audiophiles" will believe all sorts of crap.

There was a guy here not so long ago, who believed that the 1's and 0's of his digital audio files sounded better if they live on an SSD vs HDD. And would not be dissuaded from that mindset.
That is not the difference between vinyl and digital. Rather, the same bits and bytes on a SSD vs spinning HDD.

 

[helper800]

To expose it for the scam it is.

"audiophiles" will believe all sorts of crap.

There was a guy here not so long ago, who believed that the 1's and 0's of his digital audio files sounded better if they live on an SSD vs HDD. And would not be dissuaded from that mindset.
That is not the difference between vinyl and digital. Rather, the same bits and bytes on a SSD vs spinning HDD.

I recall being there trying to reason with them unsuccessfully... Good times...

 

[stonecarver]

Pair this up with those pure copper, oxygen free, flat, 3" wide braided speaker cables from the 70's/80's ($1,000 a set) and live in pure audio heaven 🙄😛

I knew a guy like that and he was kinda weird his wires and himself. Nice guy but out of his mind.

 

[digitalgriffin]

This is what gives high end audio builders bad names.
99% of golden ears can tell the difference betweeen 44K redbook $200 CD player and anything greater on mega expensive setup

 

[sitehostplus]

And any one of these speakers that cost 450k+

And people thought I was dumb for buying this soundbar.

At least I got it from the manufacturer off fleabay for half price.

 

[scottscholzpdx]

I also wonder how much profit they are making on each of these.

All of it.

 

[Amdlova]

I remember when the audio is so good ... audio cards with Isa slot...
And the connection comes from a US robotics Isa modem with 56kbps... the true power of connection. That solid MIDI sound...
/joke mode

 

[bit_user]

Just so we are clear, this is a scam. That is a fact.

Are you talking about the article or the device?
🤣

 

[bit_user]

My only question is why even bother to give it exposure by posting about it on this site?

The author/editors know articles like these will get a certain amount of clicks from people who like to ridicule such products. Is the same reason people like to watch trashy reality TV - so they can make themselves feel better by having someone to look down upon.

What you might ask instead is what tech news & reviews you're missing out on, because the site is wasting space & time on such trash.

Because awareness will avert potential buyers into getting scammed. If nobody talked about tons of people would be quietly scammed...

The people who spend so much money on audiophile setups generally don't have the time to scour the internet for articles and reviews, much less peanut gallery comment threads, like this one.

The people being scammed, in this case, are those of us who clicked on the article.

To expose it for the scam it is.
...
There was a guy here not so long ago, who believed that the 1's and 0's of his digital audio files sounded better if they live on an SSD vs HDD. And would not be dissuaded from that mindset.

See, it's a waste of time to think we can save anyone who's already that far down the rabbit hole. We're just fooling ourselves - or, perhaps making ourselves feel virtuous, without actually accomplishing any real good.

 

[bit_user]

99% of golden ears can tell the difference betweeen 44K redbook $200 CD player and anything greater on mega expensive setup

Ah, but the trouble you always face with A/B comparisons between different formats is that they're almost never mixed and mastered exactly the same way.

The only way to properly tell if people can discern the difference is to start with like a DTS-Master recording and then do a blind A/B where you use a studio-grade downsampler to convert it to 16/44.1k and see if they can tell which is which.

Regarding vinyl vs. digital, you have to start with vinyl source and either run a full-analog path, or switch over to a path where it's converted to digital and back to analog. Otherwise, there are too many giveaways telling you which one is vinyl.

I once read a very plausible-sounding explanation of why some people prefer vinyl. It's not because it's more accurate or higher-fidelity, but rather that the process of converting to the RIAA EQ curve and back again introduces harmonics that people tend to find aesthetically pleasing. It's a similar story with tube amps and the soft-clipping they introduce. However, if those sorts of effects are what a producer wants, they should be able to introduce those same harmonics even into digital recordings, during the mastering phase, in the studio.

 

[J4ck1nth3b0x]

People buying these 'audiophile' devices deserving to be robbed from their money like that.

 

[mikeebb]

Because awareness will avert potential buyers into getting scammed. If nobody talked about tons of people would be quietly scammed...

Since sales of this device are likely to number in the double if not single digits, the obviously scam price confers exclusivity: most people would shake their heads in wonder and buy something gigabit+ for <$100. Exclusivity is very important for audiophiles.

You wonder about those amps? Modern Class-D amps have a nearly zero noise floor, effectively zero distortion, extremely high efficiency, and generally tick every objective target for high-end audio. Their main problem is that they don't cost enough. So they have to be packed with "audiophile-grade" resistors, capacitors, and such (i.e. big markups) and have a big overall markup to make them plausible audiophile purchases.

Finally, there are excellent tube-sound emulators available from several sources for audio production. So adding that to a project is no problem.

 

[Garry_R]

Sticking my head above the parapet here.

I borrowed one of these when they first came out as I was very dubious about the claims. Ordered one for myself the next day as it was plainly a large improvement. Obviously the data is identical, TCP ensures that, but all other unwanted electrical noise is removed. Its that which doesn't get to the rest of the chain in your system. You need a revealing system (and a good room), but its certainly not snake oil in my opinion, just depends on your priorities.

Previously my streamer was plugged into a NetGear 24 Port Gbit switch which every other device in my house plugs into. Who knows how noisy that is, but I guess badly.

So I do appreciate everyone is going to say this is all in the digital world, and 0's & 1's are 0's & 1's, and they are, but those perfectly receivable 0's & 1's bring a load of crud with them, that can easily spoil the porridge.

For info the rest of the system is Innuos Zenith Mk3, Innuos Phoenix Net, Innuos Phoenix USB, Chord Hugo TT2 DAC, Chord M-Scaler, Arcam A49 Amps & Kef Blade 2 Speakers. (plus lots of snake oil cables, but thats another.....discussion)

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Sticking my head above the parapet here.

I borrowed one of these when they first came out as I was very dubious about the claims. Ordered one for myself the next day as it was plainly a large improvement. Obviously the data is identical, TCP ensures that, but all other unwanted electrical noise is removed. Its that which doesn't get to the rest of the chain in your system. You need a revealing system (and a good room), but its certainly not snake oil in my opinion, just depends on your priorities.

Previously my streamer was plugged into a NetGear 24 Port Gbit switch which every other device in my house plugs into. Who knows how noisy that is, but I guess badly.

So I do appreciate everyone is going to say this is all in the digital world, and 0's & 1's are 0's & 1's, and they are, but those perfectly receivable 0's & 1's bring a load of crud with them, that can easily spoil the porridge.

For info the rest of the system is Innuos Zenith Mk3, Innuos Phoenix Net, Innuos Phoenix USB, Chord Hugo TT2 DAC, Chord M-Scaler, Arcam A49 Amps & Kef Blade 2 Speakers. (plus lots of snake oil cables, but thats another.....discussion)

And how much did they pay you for this endorsement?

I see they're based in the UK and you posted from the UK, very close to where they're based.

A little analog "noise" on a digital signal has absolutely NO effect.

 

[Garry_R]

And how much did they pay you for this endorsement?


A little analog "noise" on a digital signal has absolutely NO effect.

Ha, nothing to do with them, wish I was. I borrowed loads of kit before I stumbled on Innuos.

And I agree, analog noise (audible, EMI, RFI) will not affect the digital bits at all, but that noise does get to the ground planes etc of the receiving end, because they are electrically connected. It all has to be changed back to analog in the end to be amplified (with the extra noise), but maybe some people can hear 1's & 0's? as they pour out of the end of a lead?

 

[helper800]

And how much did they pay you for this endorsement?

I see they're based in the UK and you posted from the UK, very close to where they're based.

A little analog "noise" on a digital signal has absolutely NO effect.

Just muddy the water enough to get a sucker to "try" out a 4350 dollar paper weight...

 

[Garry_R]

Just muddy the water enough to get a sucker to "try" out a 4350 dollar paper weight...

£2599 when I bought it, so not quite as extravagant.

 

[helper800]

£2599 when I bought it, so not quite as extravagant.

So you incinerated 2600 GBP instead of 4349 dollars. Yeah, big "savings" there...

 

[Garry_R]

So you incinerated 2600 GBP instead of 4349 dollars. Yeah, big "savings" there...

Lol, have you actually listened to one? When you've spent £80k on the rest of the system, its not so much.

 

[stonecarver]

I got to spend two vacations with a bunch of us audio nuts a few years back. And it was weird you had two camps those who just love music and the over and beyond mystic's who had all kinds of one of a kind high priced God to them fixes to a non issue that us music lovers just smiled and scratched our heads.

I have many many audio toys but nothing that was not needed I have switch boxes for two amps A/B to a single set of speakers $79.00 back in the 80's. That kind of stuff.

I tried to read Audiofile Magazine back in the day but it was so anal it was boring. The stuff that was being presented as high end , raise your speaker wire 7in off the floor with vintage ceramic telephone pole wire separator's you will hear heaven.

I had a friend who wanted to show off his system to me and cringe. He was so excited and I kept my true input out of it but he stacked 3 sets of speakers and it was like nails on a chalk board to me. But I looked at him and it was his pride and joy. It was his thing. He got so weird he stopped talking to the rest of the audio guys.


I have came across some vintage overpriced in there day items from all over and I remembered the hype and find it at a used store. lug it home and well no magic. I paid $6.00 original $2300.00

I think it's the glitter and shinny ad with the hot girl in the black mini skirt standing next to the product that makes you Think it's worth $2300.00



Common sense and and correct set up can make anything sound good.

 

[bill001g]

And I agree, analog noise (audible, EMI, RFI) will not affect the digital bits at all, but that noise does get to the ground planes etc of the receiving end, because they are electrically connected.

Shows you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. There is no electrical connection between the units.

The cable are magnetically isolated by tiny transformers. In addition even very inexpensive devices use optical isolaters behind the transformers.

This is mostly done for safety reasons. Ethernet is rated to go 100 meters. This makes it very likely the grounds on either end are slightly different and you would get a current flowing between the grounds. In theory it could be dangerous or damage equipment.