e4300 e4400 e6320 e6420: which one to choose?

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Which do you want?

  • e4300

    Votes: 23 13.9%

  • e4400

    Votes: 48 28.9%

  • e6320

    Votes: 27 16.3%

  • e6420

    Votes: 68 41.0%
  • Total voters
    166
It looks like the E4400 may now be available. I have not yet confirmed it and other stores still have it listed on "backorder" but this e-seller says they have them available. If true I am not sure how NewEgg can justify keeping the E4300 price so inflated when the E4400 is going for $10 to $15 less (sans shipping considerations).

Er... perhaps this warrants a new topic.
.
 
I always thought having a lower multiplier was better for overclocking.

I know I'm new and that probably sounds stupid, but check this link out:
http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30

Basically, it says that lots of fsb walls are misdiagnosed - they are actually the chipset hitting its limit. It goes on to say that having a lower multiplier (original multiplier, not down shifted multiplier) doesn't stress the northbridge so much in overclocking.

If I am completely off track, can someone please explain to me why you would want a higher multiplier?
 
Eh, that's really not what that article said at all. It says that lowering multi below stock multi can induce FSB barriers earlier on and increase latencies lowering performance. That's all.


Higher multiplier is generally better (in teh case of the e4300 and e4400 it's certainly fantastic), but the allendale core doesn't appear to have as much OCing room in it as the Conroe core does. If you are content with a mere 2.4 -3.3ghz C2D obtainable with value RAM this is "lack" of overclockability is a non-issue. Once you increased your FSB past the stock frequency of the fastest C2Ds currently available you'll be hard pressed to find an application that will suffer from a "lack" of FSB or Memory bandwidth either and if you're ok with that you can just keep the savings in money, electricity, and heat and all you really miss out on is a very, very minor amount of bragging rights for hitting a high FSB frequency.

Heh, I already bought my mobo but if I had known AMD was going to drop it's prices so significantly and could find a uATX AM2 mobo with optical SPDIF I wouldn't even be thinking about intel right now (x2 3600+ is HALF the price of e4300. $60... That's a gig of ram, or a significant upgrade if applied to GFX card).
 
Wow,I'm not even an Intel man and Like a blind man searchin for a tuna factory 8) I say the e6600 is goin to be the best bang for the buck, by the time everything is released anyway.
 
Quite simple, for overclocking, you want the e4400, because it has a very high 10 mult like the e6700 meaning wiht some nice cooling you could easily hit 4ghz (recommend water for stable, and this is in theory, no guarantees by the taco). While the e63/420 chips are a waste of money imo, because the e6320 has a 7 mult which is pathetic for overclocking, and the 8 mult isn't bad, but the e4400 will be the same price pretty much, totally making it not worth it for overclocking. And the 4mb cache? Bah, the cache gives it a 3% gain over the regular e6300 and you won't be able to oc as high as the e4400, so I can't justify buying that, but that's me.


Hope this helps 8)
Click to expand...

Only one problem.
Allendales don't clock as high as Conroes. There is a point in buying a Conroe class chip, too bad they cost more.
 
But if you get better cooling in exchange for the worse ocing for the same price, then you'll still get as high, but with safer temps, and also with the e4400 and watercooling, I think 4ghz is possible
Click to expand...

Good point. Pity I don't do watercooling... yet. I'll have to look watercooling sometime.
(Voted E6420: pain to hit over 450FSB, and 8x mult = 3.6 GHz @ 450, which is my target clock)
 
I think you can hit 3.6ghz on an allendale, but that's me, what do I know, I'm a taco :lol: But cheap watercoolers are improving and the prices are dropping, check out the thermaltake big water 745 for one, it's taco approved for a cheap alternative to high end watercoolers
Click to expand...

I see Allendales topping out at 3.4 at HardForum (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1138241) even on water. :-(
 
That's weird, because someone here hit 3.8ghz on air on an allendale :?
Click to expand...
Link please? :-D
HardForum has Prime/Orthos stability requirements (8 hours, I think), hence the overclocks over on the big list are fully stable overclocks.
 
I've seen freaks of nature in the most impossible theory,so yes 3.8 on air does'nt seem that far fetched,especially on a perfectly matched system...It's like the holy grail,but it happens.
 
I've seen freaks of nature in the most impossible theory,so yes 3.8 on air does'nt seem that far fetched,especially on a perfectly matched system...It's like the holy grail,but it happens.
Click to expand...
True, but it's like saying that human-beings can run @ 22-23mph. Only a handful of 100 yard sprinters can hit that speed, whereas the rest of us couch-potatoes/average-Joes can probably do 15-17mph. :wink: 😀
 
Okay - follow up question...

I have a p5w dh dlx motherboard, and as I understand it, this mobo has some known characteristics as fsb is scaled up:
- hole/wall at approx 370 MHz. This is a chipset limit which can be jumped over, but then you are forced to use spd timings on memory.
- upper fsb limit of approx 450; as this limit is approached, odd memory settings which aren't available in bios must be relaxed and mch voltage must be upped to the point where better-than-stock-heatsink cooling is required

Given this info:
- the memory bandwidth graph in the link I posted earlier
(http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30)
- I haven't done any overclocking before
- I am on a budget, so wanting to avoid after market cooling on cpu & nb

...I'm thinking it's better for me to stick to fsb's below the fsb hole, use tight memory timings, and get a cpu with a multiplier of 8 or 9:
fsb = 370 MHz with x8 -> cpu = 2.96 GHz
fsb = 370 MHz with x9 -> cpu = 3.33 GHz
(x10 too high on regular intel hsf cooler? -> cpu = 3.7 GHz )

I could then easily run memory (Corsair 6400c4 rev 1.2 micron d9) at 740 MHz @ 3-3-3

So basically what I'm asking is, is my plan alright? What cpu would you recommend for me?

I'm open to advice from anyone here - really appreciate it!
 
If you're on a budget and wanting to get a good OC with cheap cooling you definately want e4300 or e4400. With 10x multi on e4400 you could just stop below 333 mhz FSB to keep your NB strap tight, use DDR2-667 with tight timings for extra performance and still hit 3.32ghz and smoke an e6420 (8x multi, double the cache) @ 370mhz FSB (2.96ghz) at most tasks.

The reason there are FSB "holes" is because the NB stappings are automatic on these mobos (On my Abit IC7G MaxII Advance I can pick any strapping I want from 400, 533, 667 to 800. don't know why these new mobos don't offer a feature I have on a mobo that is ~5 years old). The reason it works at 401mhz but not 371mhz is because the timings are relaxed at 400mhz if the mobo supports that strapping (ie 1600) and impliments it automatically at that speed (some mobos don't support the strapping or impliment them at different speeds which means that the "hole" becomes a "wall" or a "quagmire of sucky performance" if they impliment the 1600 NB strap at 360mhz instead of 400mhz to give you the warm tinglies about getting a high FSB more easily). There is also a strapping at 333mhz (ie 1333) so if you're on a budget and want good performance you should take some benchies at 332 mhz FSB with the tightest stable memory timings you can get, they might be better than what you get at 333-370 (or close enough to make you want to run cooler).

Actual performance > brag-able CPU Speed > latencies > brag-able FSB speed* for most applications

*for most applications there isn't a FSB or Memory bandwidth bottleneck past ~266mhz and you'll get more performance out of tighter latencies than merely increasing bandwidth further

What I'm going to try and do is hit 345mhz FSB on an e4300 by stopping at 332mhz in BIOS and then clock gen up another 13mhz to avoid NB strap penalties for round 3.1ghz (easy to brag about that way xD) with tight NB and RAM timings that should give me a tasty performance edge without having to run high frequencies or voltages. I'll see how close I get. In practice I probably won't notice the difference between that and a demure 2.9ghz unless I run a benchmark program. To go from 322 to 345 is only 7% more FSB and RAM (in 1:1) bandwidth and 7% tighter NB and RAM latencies (iff you don't relax the timing to get the extra speed) with only 7% more core CPU speed. That's why it might hurt performance to screw up your latencies just to make a small jump past 332.

I don't think there is much data on this though. Most of the data is on Conroe OCing into the +400mhz.

Count me in for wanting to see links to reports of allendales over 3.4ghz plz. I didn't think they could do it (at least not without phase-change cooling).
 
Are clock generators all their cracked up to be?I beleive that you have "skinned the cat" in a compound fracture kind a way.Please let us know your benchies and real world applications ,as I for one am very intrested in your outcome.Brilliant I say!Brilliant? 8O 😀 8O
 
Yeah I thought the 3.7 and even maybe the 3.33 were pushing it 😳
That all makes solid sense now - just one further question on the link I posted...

As you say, mobo's like mine (p5w dh dlx) don't allow manual selection of the strap. I interpretted the first graph in the link as saying that Asus had done some fiddling with when the straps changed over to allow high (>400) fsbs on 975 motherboards which don't have 1600 straps. The fiddling shifted the 1067-to 1333 strap changeover to approx 400 fsb (as opposed to the 333 you said)...
"...around 370fsb Intels 975/965 chipset starts to have issues if its left on the 1067 strap..."

This says to me that any fsb I can get below 400 (the changeover) should keep the 1067 strap with its tighter latencies (which gives the good nb performance you were talking about). That is why I was looking at the 370 fsb number...

Is what I've said above correct, or have I mis-interpretted the graph from the link (again!)? Can you confirm 975 motherboards don't have a 1600 strap?

I'm really appreciating your help Flasher702 - it's really helping clarify things!
 
Officially there is no 1600 strap yet as there is no 400mhz (1600 after teh quad-pump) FSB Intel CPU out. 1333mhz will be out shortly. As per my understanding of posts from other users: Some motherboards appear to have a 1600 strap that automatically kicks in at 400mhz FSB (which would be correct for a stock CPU running at 400mhz FSB) and some appear to have a 1600 strap that kicks in sooner than that to help smooth through the 370-399mhz "hole" to make OCing easier. As per my understanding you shifted the strapping the wrong direction. The stealth implementation of a 1600 strap at 400mhz or earlier is the theory that best explains the FSB hole. The 1333 strap should kick in at 333mhz but most of the l33t OCers have compiled their data on low-multi Conroes so most of the information you see is dealing with the difference between 360 and +401 (and they did it at a time when DDR2-800 ram was hella expensive too... I'm glad I'm not them!). I forget where I saw it but someone did a comparison that was something like 360mhz*9 (3.24ghz) vs. 410*8 (3.28ghz) with a Conroe "x" series and the slower setting was faster at SuperPi because, theoretically, the 1600 strap kicked in.

I'm not familiar with the p5w and it might be prudent to consult a resource that is for detailed instructions if you plan on clocking above ~370mhz. Personally I plan on NOT doing that to save myself the hassle and the expense and with a 9x or 10x multi you don't really need to.

All this talk of strappings and behind-the-scenes settings makes me miss Socket A all over again xD I think I'm going to try and find someone to buy this rig off me when I get it build, uber cheap brisbanes haunt my dreams. If you're on a tight budget THAT is where the action really is. You can get an x2 3600+ and mid-range mobo and then replace the CPU and Mobo again later for less than a single C2D with a high-end mobo. There are quite a few people around who have had good luck with moderate OCs on brisbanes. That usually the kind of strategy I use but AMD didn't bother to warn me that they were dropping their CPU prices :/
 
Okay - I think the only question for me now is whether the strap change at 400 fsb (ie. differences in performance from your x series example) is change from 1067 to 1333 strap, or 1333 to 1600 strap.

I'm inclined to believe 1067 to 1333, but I guess the only way to find out is with some testing 😀 Using superpi, if I find an increase in test time from 330 fsb to 335 fsb, I'll know there is a strap changeover here (strap changeover reduces memory bandwidth at the change frequency by increasing nb latency). Then 370 must be on the 1333 strap and the 1600 strap exists because of the other changeover at 400 fsb. If there is no bump in times, I'll know 370 is on the 1067 strap...

In any case, I won't be going above 370 fsb - I'll probably end up going for the 4300 now:
1. cheapest of all
2. decent overclock
3. multiplier suits at 370 fsb
Only downsides are the loss of cache and no virtualisation (which I'd probably never use anyway)

Thanks for your input everyone, especially Flasher 702. 😀
 
I chose an e6420 because to me, its just a good value. If I can get a e4400 that would be great, but then there would be no point to buy a good overclocking mobo. for example, ds3 is capable of around 500 (give or take a few) mhz fsb. U aren't even going to reach that on an e4400. Plus, I wanted to get an e6300. Now if I wait until the 22nd, im getting an increase in performance (and a pretty good one at that) for the same price. Dont get me wrong, if they don;t have the 6420, im orderring the 4400. But really, if you buy an e4400, theres nothing wrong with going with some cheap biostar mobo that has a 400 fsb limit.
 
No way a ds3 is capable of 500fsb, that way high, perhaps a bit over 400, but not 500, that's either rd600 or 680i status, perhaps gigabyte's dq6 could, but not the ds3. That's the bottom of the line mobo for conroe's based off the 965p chipset
Click to expand...

are u serious? theres someone with a sig on thg in this thread (forgot who) who has a ds3 running at 540 or 530 fsb. ds3 is the hottest budget oc mobo out right now.
 
Decided to skip the price drop day for my fathers system.

Got an OEM E4300 from eWiz for 133.90, and Sunbeam CR-SW-775 for 19.99.

CPU wise, still saved 46 bucks over a presumed 66 bucks ($179 - $113).

And besides, should be able to OC to at least 2.4 ghz (E6600) which just enhances the savings. 😀

😳 <--twiches . o O (still have ta wait till monday, though)
 
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