E5200 M0 high temperatures

[megatherium3000]

Hey everybody, I'm new to this forum

I'm running an E5200 at 3.6ghz on an MSI p43 Neo-f motherboard with a Nexus Xir 3500 cooler. It's stable at 1.28 volts but runs hot, at 40 idle and up 70 under load.

Is this normal? I've tried taking off the cooler and reapplying a small amount of thermalpaste (using the stuff that came with it, would better stuff make a big difference?) but this only shifted temperatures by 1 degree.

Have also tried lowering fsb to 280mhz and using 12.5 multiplier and this made no difference.
It just seems like very high temperatures for such a big cooler (cooler I would have thought is overkill as it costs almost as much as the CPU) and only 1.28 volts?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, this is my first time overclocking.

ps temperatures were gotten using OCCT and real temp, speedfan actually reports 2-3 degrees higher.

E5200 M0 @3.6ghz (328mhz bus x11)
MSI Neo-F p43
4gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer @860mhz
640gb Caviar Black
Thermaltake armour w/25cm fan
Corsair 750W PSU
Geforce 8800gs
Nexus Xir 3500 cpu cooler

 

[hundredislandsboy]

Sounds very normal to me.

 

[Shadow703793]

^+1. Sounds about right for that cooler. Try adding in a higher CFM fan or get a better HSF.

 

[megatherium3000]

oh ok, it just seemed that others posted lower temperatures or clock speeds up to 4ghz, and I thought I'd get similar before having to call it quits.
thanks for replies

 

[Shadow703793]

^Have you checked if HSF is seated properly?

 

[megatherium3000]

Well I took it off and put it back on already and it didn't make any difference, it seems secure but I'm not really sure how to check if it's seated properly.

I do have the stock HSF laying around, is there any point in trying that to see if it's better?

 

[megatherium3000]

Hey I just checked my bios, it reports an idle temperature of 28 degrees. But realtemp, occt and speedfan all report idle of 39-43? Maybe the problem is that they are all somehow not picking up the temperature correctly, is that possible?

 

[hundredislandsboy]

The BIOS temps will always be lower than idle in Windows. Check your task manager on idle and see how many tasks are running.

 

[CompuTronix]

megatherium3000,

Overclocking and temperatures are about understanding Intel's voltage and thermal specifications, and not exceeding them. There are many variables, so let's go over the basics.

Core 2 Duo's have a single CPU temperature sensor (Tcase), which is the temperature shown in BIOS, and two Core temperature sensors (Tjunction). For the E5200 M0, Intel's Thermal Specification is 74c, which is shown in their Processor Spec Finder - http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAY7

74c is maximum CPU temperature (Tcase Max), NOT Core temperature, which is a common misconception among many users. Also, there's a 5c Gradient between CPU temperature (lower) and Core temperature (higher), which is shown in the following Intel document - http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf

Although maximum Core temperature (Tjunction Max) is 100c, which is for Throttle and Shutdown protection, the corresponding CPU temperature would be 95c; far too hot for sane operation. As such, CPU temperatures above 74c and Core temperatures above 79c should be considered as an "overtemp" condition.

E5200 M0 specs:

Vcore Max 1.3625
Tcase Max (CPU temp) 74c
Tjunction (Core temp) 79c

SpeedFan shows CPU temperature AND Core temperature, while Real Temp shows Core temperatures ONLY. Both programs allow calibrations. Intel has stated that the Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS) used for monitoring Core temperatures are accurate at very high temperatures, become less accurate as temperatures decrease, may "stick" below 50c on 45 nanometer processors, and may be unreliable at idle temperatures.

On the other hand, the Analog Thermal Diode used for monitoring CPU temperature is linear from idle thru high temperatures, which is why, as per agreement with Intel, motherboard manufacturers do not include Core temperature in their monitoring utilities found on the installation disk, such as Asus Probe.

Never assume that default temperatures are accurate. The accuracy of CPU temperature is determined by BIOS calibrations, but can be closely calibrated in SpeedFan. The accuracy of Core temperatures are determined by Intel factory calibrations, but can be closely calibrated in SpeedFan and Real Temp.

Prime95 Blend, or OCCT (Linpack), or CPU Burn Test (LinX) are cyclic workloads, which produce fluctuating temperatures. While these are useful for stability testing, they're inappropriate for thermal testing. Prime95 Small FFT's is the standard for thermal testing, because it's a steady-state 100% workload.

Since ambient temperature is a major variable, always try to test as close to 22c as possible, which is standard ambient. Also, test with case covers removed, and all fans at 100% RPM. This will eliminate cooling varables, and will provide more consistent results for comparison.

When testing, thermal saturation is reached within 7 to 8 minutes, so a 10 minute test is adequate. Keep in mind that and even the most processor intensive games or applications will rarely exceed 70% to 85% sustained workload.

From the Core i7 and Core 2 Temperature Guide: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-sticky-core-core-temperature-guide


Scale 2: Duo
E8x00: Tcase Max 74c, Stepping E0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E7x00: Tcase Max 74c, Stepping R0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E7x00: Tcase Max 74c, Stepping M0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E5x00: Tcase Max 74c, Stepping R0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E5200: Tcase Max 74c, Stepping M0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W<--E5200 M0
E4700: Tcase Max 73c, Stepping G0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E4x00: Tcase Max 73c, Stepping M0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E2xx0: Tcase Max 73c, Stepping M0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E8600: Tcase Max 72c, Stepping E0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E8xx0: Tcase Max 72c, Stepping C0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E6x50: Tcase Max 72c, Stepping G0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W
E6540: Tcase Max 72c, Stepping G0, TDP 65W, Idle 8W

-Tcase/Tjunction-
--70--/--75--75-- Hot
--65--/--70--70-- Warm
--60--/--65--65--Safe <--
--25--/--30--30-- Cool


For more detailed explanations, please refer to the Temperature Guide.

Any questions?

Comp

 

[boulard83]

I have an E5200 with 1.225 volts using the STOCK intel HSF ( the one from my Q9550, copper base and .6amp fan ) and im loading @ 43c with Nice air flow. If under Low airflow case ( he currently in an aquarium without the Oil yet ... ) the "room" temp gets high and im loading in the 50's. I would replace the Thermal paste with something better. Im using aftermarket paste on my intel HSF, + i use a VERY small amount, like a lil RICE grain in the mid of the chip, then aply de HSF.

The paste i use is from a local shop, i cant tell the brand ... but its doing VERY well.

MAKE sure that you have GOOD airflow. Your cpu cooler is USELESS if it use Hot air to cool it down ....

 

[megatherium3000]

Hey Computronix

After reading your reply I am wondering:

speedfan shows core 0 @ 45*, core 1@45*, Core @51* ambient 36* (all idle)
Real Temp shows temps of 41 and 41

This appears to be the opposite of what you had said if I intepret "core" in speedfan to mean Tcase. After bouldards reply I am convinced something is up, as his temperatures are more similar to the ones I've read about

One more thing is that speedfan shows Fan 1 at 1247rpm and Fan 2 at 1411rpm. I think Fan 1 is the cpu HSF (as in the bios the HSF is repoted to also be 1247rpm), but that can vary between 1200 and 2500 according to the Nexus website. I e-mailed them and they said my bios was overriding the fan speed, but fan speed control is off in the BIOS. However no matter how hot it gets the fan doesn't go any faster.

So, is the BIOS temperature taken to be more accurate than speedfans for example? The HSF feels cool, even when temperatures of 70 are reported, and the case is huge and has a total of 5 fans, in addition to the HSF

the HSF feels cool and I can never hear it speeding up or slowing down.

Thanks again for you replies, any help on the matter is appreciated as I'd like to get to the bottom of this

 

[boulard83]

If the HSF alwais feel COOL, i would Reseat with GOOD thermal paste.

** clean both CPU et HSF ** after this you can reapply and remount.

If you want to be ABSOLUTELY sure its perfectly mounted, take the mobo out of the case. I know it can be hard in some case, but i dont know about yours.

I personnaly only use CoreTemp since it have a pre made display for my G15 keaboard. This way i can watch temp while gaming. SpeefFan is a bit harder to read cause it has much more information.

 

[CompuTronix]

Hey CompuTronix

After reading your reply I am wondering:

speedfan shows core 0 @ 45*, core 1@45*, Core @51* ambient 36* (all idle)
Real Temp shows temps of 41 and 41

This appears to be the opposite of what you had said if I intepret "core" in speedfan to mean Tcase. After bouldards reply I am convinced something is up, as his temperatures are more similar to the ones I've read about

One more thing is that speedfan shows Fan 1 at 1247rpm and Fan 2 at 1411rpm. I think Fan 1 is the cpu HSF (as in the bios the HSF is repoted to also be 1247rpm), but that can vary between 1200 and 2500 according to the Nexus website. I e-mailed them and they said my bios was overriding the fan speed, but fan speed control is off in the BIOS. However no matter how hot it gets the fan doesn't go any faster.

So, is the BIOS temperature taken to be more accurate than speedfans for example? The HSF feels cool, even when temperatures of 70 are reported, and the case is huge and has a total of 5 fans, in addition to the HSF

the HSF feels cool and I can never hear it speeding up or slowing down.

Thanks again for you replies, any help on the matter is appreciated as I'd like to get to the bottom of this

Did you read my Temperature Guide, or read SpeedFan's HELP and HOW-TO, or read SpeedFan's on-line help?

If you have an nVidia based graphics card, it will report GPU and "Ambient" for the intake temperature on the card. This is NOT the ambient "room" temperature with which we're interested. Ambient must be measured near the computer case intake with a trusted indoor analog or digital thermometer, so ignore or disable "Ambient" in SpeedFan.

Regarding the differing Core temperatures between SpeedFan and Real Temp, be certain that you never run multiple temperature monitoring utilities simultaneously, as they can interfere with one another. If you ran them individually, and if Real Temp reports Tj Max (in the "Settings" tab) as 100C, then SpeedFan may be using an inappropriate Tj Max value for your E5200 M0. Regardless, SpeedFan's values for Core temperature can be calibrated to match Real Temp's values. See Section 11 in my Temperature Guide.

■CPU temperature is BIOS temperature, and is also called Tcase, which means TEMPERATURE CASE (CPU case, NOT computer case), and is acquired from the single Analog Thermal Diode sensor integrated into the substrate layers of the processor package. This is explained in detail in my Temperature Guide.

■Core temperature has nothing to do with BIOS temperature. Core temperature is also called Tjunction, which means TEMPERATURE JUNCTION, and is acquired from idividual Digitaql Thermal Sensors (DTS) within each Core. This is also explained in detail in my Temperature Guide.

■Click on the link in my signature and read my Temperature Guide, which is a Sticky at the top of this Forum, and click on SpeedFan's Help and HOW-TO Icon, which is located in SpeedFan's installation Program Group. This help file can also be found by searching for the filename speedfan.chm.

■Further help is available by click on the following link to SpeedFan's homepage, then click on the Support, Articles, Screenshots and F.A.Q. tabs: http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Comp

 

[loudr1]

Comp just wanted to say nice post. Very informative!! Sometimes it seems there is a race between posters, to post "Read the ______'ing Guide at the top of the page" and they offer no info or help. So again nice reply....

 

[CompuTronix]

loudr1,

Welcome to Tom's. Very astute observation. Don't get me started, or I'll have to repost my award winning rant about "users" who can't or won't, or othertwise don't read before imposing upon us to repost the same old answers again ... and again ... and again ... for which the Stickies were written.

Glad to see that you're already up to speed. (No overclocking pun intended).

Comp