EA Responds To Battlefield Hardline DRM Complaints

Vlad Rose · Mar 27, 2015

Why DRM is bad:
Legit buyers are strattled by the DRM issues preventing their games to run or worse (anyone remember starforce DRM?). The worst thing is that the DRM did not affect the pirates in anyway since once the game is hacked, the issues that plagued them due to DRM are now gone. So instead of preventing pirates from stealing a game they wouldn't have bought anyways, they're driving away customers who normally would buy it.

Why online required is bad:
Starcraft 2 single player. 'Nuff said.

Why Microtransactions in a purchased game is bad:
Does this really need to be explained? Why should you have to continue to pay on a crippled game you've already paid for? Imagine buying a $80,000 car and the dealer tells you it'll cost another $2000 if you want tires.

Easiest way to solve these issues? Boycott any game that uses tactics like this. There are many games out there that don't use any of these models and are quite successful still. It's the only way companies will figure out not to screw their customers.

OcelotRex · Mar 27, 2015

JonnyDough :

I would argue that it's always been this way though what has changed is the mode of distribution and ability to enforce the EULA. To be clear I was not attacking CanadianVice for his practice merely clarifying that was he was doing was not allowed. I agree with him that there's very little chance that something will happen though.

I grew up in the 80's with a Nintendo so I get the nostalgia for the good old days when you could lend your friends your cartridge. Times are different now with digital distribution, the ability to patch and expand games, and online services that can last years all as expenses to the developers. I gladly trade my rights to letting a friend borrow a game for games that I cannot lose and can install with only an internet connection. I've never had an issue with Origin, Uplay, or Steam or my hardware that wasn't a known issue.

pahbi · Mar 27, 2015

I pirate everything before buying. And I'm glad I do, because quite a few items were definitely not worth the purchase. Its nice to be able to delete those games without trying to go through the hassle of getting a refund.

DRM, however, is just a stupid waste of money. Truly worthless. Its hard to even understand why companies still pay money for DRM.

It doesn't stop piracy in any way shape or form, it doesn't really get the company more or less sales, it really just only causes problems for legitimate users.

- P

OcelotRex · Mar 27, 2015

pahbi :

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't DRM prevent pirates from playing Multi-player?

jpishgar · Mar 27, 2015

Somewhat unrelated, for those gamers interested, Tom's Hardware now has a Steam group kicking:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tomshardwareofficial

We'll be giving away a pile of PC games for contests/giveaways and whatnot over time.
No word yet on whether or not we'll be giving away any DRM-addled triple-A titles yet.

-JP

junkeymonkey · Mar 27, 2015

complain but yet still go spend there money on theses games showing there full support ???

stop buying the games as support of all that .. or are ya'll that desperate for something to do ??

tightblunt · Mar 27, 2015

What is the difference in 5 members of the same household sharing a account and machine and installing it on 5 different machines? I'm soon going to be upgrading my mobo and cpu. Does that count as 2 hardware changes? This is crazy. I wonder if having it installed on a storage drive and moving that drive to a different machine and doing a game repair would get around this...

OcelotRex · Mar 27, 2015

tightblunt :

It's 5 configurations in 24 hours. Once that 24 hours is up you can have 5 more. That's 35 per week and 1,825 per year. If you have that many configurations of hardware I assume you can buy multiple copies of the game.

Vlad Rose · Mar 27, 2015

OcelotRex :

Nope, pirates find ways around not only the DRM, but also the Multi-Player as well as being able to hack the game. The only thing DRM is good for is to keep the honest people honest; and that even fails most of the time due to all the problems the DRM itself causes.

obababoy · Mar 27, 2015

Jason, that's what they stated in their financial fillings. Companies tend not to lie in those because they are legal documents and like i said you can see a trend, year over year less and less money is going into PC gaming titles.

Also these days fewer and fewer disk based games are sold, i actually do not have a single Xbox game that is on the disk. I purchased the code and have digital copy.

Also honestly do you like coffee? A game costs as much as what 5 cups of coffee, i mean come on, you can just drink what they give you at work or make your own for one week and just buy a game. If you are into PC gaming you simply can not really be poor lol, not when you need a $200 GPU just to launch a game.

Although I like your coffee analogy, I would like to criticize you for going to Starbucks and spending $12 on a cup of some fat mocha Venti lard sprinkle crack puree.

It would take a normal human a bit longer than a week hahaha, but it is true. In comparison for how much time a game gives entertainment for, they are cheap these days. The exception is games that are lacking content worthy of AAA prices.

canadianvice · Mar 27, 2015

Vlad Rose :

Isn't that the irony of it? When I originally acquired SC2 for purposes of testing, it was less than 10 minutes digging around in the filesystem to figure out how to get totally offline SP. Yet a paying customer has to go through all that trouble with the legitimate copy.

I've since purchased the game legally. I wanted to test and see if it was worth first, and lo and behold, a good game gets money from a pirate. I intend to do the same with Stronghold Crusader 2 since I loved the original, and if it proves good, they'll see my money - when the price comes down a bit. I never pay full price - without the option of "trying" it, I wouldn't buy it either. I am kind of ticked I need yet another game launcher, but at least it's more akin to a patcher than a fullblown platform.

My only other rule is: NEVER BUY PREORDER GAMES.
Never. It's a fools errand, and with embargoes being what they are, I have no idea why anyone would trust the marketers to give you an unbiased perspective of the game. I feel bad for my older brother when he preordered Brink, and he continues to preorder for some reason....

Mostly, my point is while some people are "Free is free" (and you can't fix them or stop them - if they want it, they'll get it) I think these companies are far too concerned about people they'd never have as customers anyway, and the pirates are good enough to make demo versions for those of us undecided.

junkeymonkey · Mar 27, 2015

''Nope, pirates find ways around not only the DRM, but also the Multi-Player as well as being able to hack the game. The only thing DRM is good for is to keep the honest people honest; and that even fails most of the time due to all the problems the DRM itself causes. ''

really, what have these clients done for you that you never were able to do back in the ''real'' pc gaming days ?? nothing but intrude on your hard drive with there spyware/malware clients..

as sais did it stop pirates, hacks ,cracks cheating ?? no were you able to MP, get patches , up dates [mind you if you wanted them and not mandatory] ?? did I need a internrt connection ?? no [unless I wanted to go on a server to mp]

out side of having that 3ed party looking over you system and files that's about it , oh and don't forget you pay for these game that are not fully on the disk and most times you can load or play with out seeing them 3ed party's first and there mandatory content...
in the end they got your cash and with out them you got nothing but a costar..

canadianvice · Mar 27, 2015

junkeymonkey :

This is one reason I support people having the knowledge to crack, though not necessarily putting it out there. I'm occasionally spooked by what might happen if Steam banned me or my account was compromised, since that's $2-300 in games. I wouldn't take kindly to having that removed - and honestly, I don't consider $60 an appropriate dollar amount for "licenses". If I'm paying $60, legal or not, I am going to have ownership.

Calvin Huang · Mar 27, 2015

canadianvice :
canadianvice :

As far as I'm concerned they got their money for the game. The way I wish to use it is up to me.

That's where you're wrong. If you did buy the game legally you also agreed to the DRM. Using a pirated version in a manner that the software is not licensed for is wrong. You're just rationalizing your behavior to be something that it is not.

Yea, and watching DVDs on Linux is also unethical. Backing up your own CDs/DVDs is unethical. Rooting your cellphone is unethical. Using a router on broadband is unethical.

Oh, wait, all of those things which previously violated some ridiculous licensing term or another have since been ruled legal because the courts realize that they violate consumer rights.

Besides, shrink wrap licensing isn't even binding in several states. And ethics isn't determined based on single-sided licensing terms. The OP has not harmed the publisher in any way, so claiming that his actions are immoral suggests that your own sense of ethics is skewed or, at minimum, doesn't go beyond societal laws and norms.

canadianvice · Mar 27, 2015

Calvin Huang :

canadianvice :
canadianvice :

As far as I'm concerned they got their money for the game. The way I wish to use it is up to me.

That's where you're wrong. If you did buy the game legally you also agreed to the DRM. Using a pirated version in a manner that the software is not licensed for is wrong. You're just rationalizing your behavior to be something that it is not.

Yea, and watching DVDs on Linux is also unethical. Backing up your own CDs/DVDs is unethical. Rooting your cellphone is unethical. Using a router on broadband is unethical.

Oh, wait, all of those things which previously violated some ridiculous licensing term or another have since been ruled legal because the courts realize that they violate consumer rights.

Besides, shrink wrap licensing isn't even binding in several states. And ethics isn't determined based on single-sided licensing terms. The OP has not harmed the publisher in any way, so claiming that his actions are immoral suggests that your own sense of ethics is skewed or, at minimum, doesn't go beyond societal laws and norms.

I think this was a case of ambiguity as Ocelot later clarified. I am doing wrong by the licensing terms, but I don't know that it was condemnation of my stance on the issue. Or perhaps it was. Oh well, no concern of mine.

Calvin Huang · Mar 27, 2015

I don't buy the whole "PC gamers pirate games and bring in less money"

lol consoles are riddled with DRM. Whats worse is, the buyer can sell their used game to someone else which effectivly takes money out of developers wallets.

Same effect as pirating a pc game. The only difference is, Console sells more titles period because there are more console gamers.

Click to expand...

Jason, that's what they stated in their financial fillings. Companies tend not to lie in those because they are legal documents and like i said you can see a trend, year over year less and less money is going into PC gaming titles.

Also these days fewer and fewer disk based games are sold, i actually do not have a single Xbox game that is on the disk. I purchased the code and have digital copy.

Also honestly do you like coffee? A game costs as much as what 5 cups of coffee, i mean come on, you can just drink what they give you at work or make your own for one week and just buy a game. If you are into PC gaming you simply can not really be poor lol, not when you need a $200 GPU just to launch a game.

Click to expand...

At least in my experience, the vast majority of people who pirate games are kids who are too young to get a job, and thus have zero income. They couldn't buy most games if they wanted to. Most people's parents don't give them limitless funds. When I was growing up I got enough to buy a $50 game once every six months, tops.

Then you have the rest, which are either people without enough interest in the game to buy it to begin with, and the (probably fairly small) group of people that just pirate everything, either because of a hatred for DRM or just because they can. One downloaded copy is nothing like one lost sale. Nobody can do the math, but I'd be astonished if even 1/50 pirates would have bought the game if piracy was impossible.

PC games bring in less money because companies spend less money on them. Years ago PC was a distinct platform and everybody had a desktop of some kind or another. So your install base was huge and games didn't require as serious a hardware commitment as they do now. The market's smaller or about the same now, while console sales skyrocketed. Companies reacted to their smaller market by trying to keep more of it with DRM measures. It lost them more customers than it gained since pirates get around the DRM anyway.

When Apple started providing DRM-free music and video, publishers similarly thought it would hurt sales, and yet it boosted adoption of iTunes over physical media (which was hurt by the various standard-breaking or privacy-invading DRM schemes).

Graphic design software is another interesting sector, since pretty much all professional graphic designers I know started off by pirating commercial graphic design software in high school and then began paying for licenses once they were making a living off of the software. Arguably, there'd be far fewer licenses sold today (and maybe even fewer professional designers) if not for file sharing.

Even Microsoft has admitted that piracy in China has helped Windows maintain its marketshare over Linux.

Though, to be fair to creative software makers, many (like Maya) are now available to students for free, and even Adobe has partnered with many schools to provide very affordable licenses for students, so there's less justification for pirating them just so you can learn it before you're able to afford to pay for it.

canadianvice · Mar 27, 2015

Calvin Huang :

I don't buy the whole "PC gamers pirate games and bring in less money"

lol consoles are riddled with DRM. Whats worse is, the buyer can sell their used game to someone else which effectivly takes money out of developers wallets.

Same effect as pirating a pc game. The only difference is, Console sells more titles period because there are more console gamers.

Click to expand...

Jason, that's what they stated in their financial fillings. Companies tend not to lie in those because they are legal documents and like i said you can see a trend, year over year less and less money is going into PC gaming titles.

Also these days fewer and fewer disk based games are sold, i actually do not have a single Xbox game that is on the disk. I purchased the code and have digital copy.

Also honestly do you like coffee? A game costs as much as what 5 cups of coffee, i mean come on, you can just drink what they give you at work or make your own for one week and just buy a game. If you are into PC gaming you simply can not really be poor lol, not when you need a $200 GPU just to launch a game.

Click to expand...

At least in my experience, the vast majority of people who pirate games are kids who are too young to get a job, and thus have zero income. They couldn't buy most games if they wanted to. Most people's parents don't give them limitless funds. When I was growing up I got enough to buy a $50 game once every six months, tops.

Then you have the rest, which are either people without enough interest in the game to buy it to begin with, and the (probably fairly small) group of people that just pirate everything, either because of a hatred for DRM or just because they can. One downloaded copy is nothing like one lost sale. Nobody can do the math, but I'd be astonished if even 1/50 pirates would have bought the game if piracy was impossible.

PC games bring in less money because companies spend less money on them. Years ago PC was a distinct platform and everybody had a desktop of some kind or another. So your install base was huge and games didn't require as serious a hardware commitment as they do now. The market's smaller or about the same now, while console sales skyrocketed. Companies reacted to their smaller market by trying to keep more of it with DRM measures. It lost them more customers than it gained since pirates get around the DRM anyway.

When Apple started providing DRM-free music and video, publishers similarly thought it would hurt sales, and yet it boosted adoption of iTunes over physical media (which was hurt by the various standard-breaking or privacy-invading DRM schemes).

Graphic design software is another interesting sector, since pretty much all professional graphic designers I know started off by pirating commercial graphic design software in high school and then began paying for licenses once they were making a living off of the software. Arguably, there'd be far fewer licenses sold today (and maybe even fewer professional designers) if not for file sharing.

Even Microsoft has admitted that piracy in China has helped Windows maintain its marketshare over Linux.

Though, to be fair to creative software makers, many (like Maya) are now available to students for free, and even Adobe has partnered with many schools to provide very affordable licenses for students, so there's less justification for pirating them just so you can learn it before you're able to afford to pay for it.

If only my university were so proactive on some of these programs. Read an article that MS offers totally free office for students at Canadian universities - google mine, and we're maybe one of 5 universities that DON'T participate in the program. I was flabbergasted we even had dreamspark.

They had all the good stuff reserved for faculty. I fired along an email and asked (I made no pretense about being a student) and they gave me an account, kekeke. I got 4 free copies of Windows, VS Professional, and a bunch of other fun stuff at no cost.

classzero · Mar 27, 2015

Also these days fewer and fewer disk based games are sold, i actually do not have a single Xbox game that is on the disk. I purchased the code and have digital copy.

Also honestly do you like coffee? A game costs as much as what 5 cups of coffee, i mean come on, you can just drink what they give you at work or make your own for one week and just buy a game.

I don't know where you are buying coffee but you are getting ripped off.

dstarr3 · Mar 27, 2015

Games are absurdly expensive. But really, there are so few reasons to buy on launch day anymore. Just wait a year and pick up that hot new $60 game on sale for a fiver. And if you absolutely can't bear waiting that long, then... well, enjoy having a lot less disposable income than those who can. It's not like a game gets worse after being out for a while. It's not a loaf of bread.

Vlad Rose · Mar 27, 2015

dstarr3 :

The only reason I can think of picking up a game when it's released as to opposed to a year later is the online features. Some games after a year the servers become empty (FPS or MOBA games) or players are already so buffed by the time you join you end up having a hard time finding groups (RPGs like WoW, Diablo 3, Guild Wars, etc). In that first case, you may have been better off since if the rooms are dead after a year, it probably wasn't a good game in the first place.

Calvin Huang · Mar 27, 2015

Games are absurdly expensive. But really, there are so few reasons to buy on launch day anymore. Just wait a year and pick up that hot new $60 game on sale for a fiver. And if you absolutely can't bear waiting that long, then... well, enjoy having a lot less disposable income than those who can. It's not like a game gets worse after being out for a while. It's not a loaf of bread.

Eh, that's not universally true. I remember back in the PSP days, I had purchased MUA or some other action-RPG game that featured online multiplayer as a major feature. However, I purchased less than 2 years after it came out, and the servers had all been taken offline.

Sometimes the gaming experience does noticeably get worse over time, or you only have a small window to experience the full thing.

junkeymonkey · Mar 27, 2015

this is the one I like from ea ''INTERNET CONNECTION, PERIODIC ONLINE AUTHENTICATION, AND END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY. MORE INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE AT WWW.EA.COM.

PERIODIC ONLINE AUTHENTICATION ?? so is it like they give you 30 days of play then you go back to them to see if they allow you another 30 days worth ??

goes to show not many read the Eula's and agreements and just hand over there money for something they don't really get and are so desperate for a game and just check ''I AGREE'' with out knowing what they really agree to . all that matters there playing that top notch AAA game and nothing else matters .. heres my hard drive do as you want as long as I can play your game ... sad

OcelotRex · Mar 27, 2015

Calvin Huang :

As vice stated I was just clarifying that is was still against the terms of use (EULA) to do so. BTW nothing you listed above is unethical inherently; they're just against the licensing agreement. For example: ripping your DVDs to a Plex server to watch them digitally (breaking the encryption) goes against some antiquated digital copyright but is not unethical. Sharing that rip with your friends is unethical (stealing/providing stolen goods).

By doing what Vice did (purchasing the license then using a non-licensed DRM version) is not unethical. The people who do not pay for the software and still use the DRM free version are those that are stealing. I used the word "wrong" but that is not what in fact I meant - against the terms of use.

I do believe that both the creators and publishers of software can and should have the ability to control their digital works through DRM. If a consumer doesn't like this they can choose to not purchase the software. I've never owned an Apple product because of how iTunes and the iPod did similar things that people complain about Steam/Origin.

ddt529 · Mar 27, 2015

EA DRM an issue? Nice to see some things never change.

BulkZerker · Mar 27, 2015

@larrylitmanen

Since when do you need a $200 GPU to play?

If I'm willing to settle for the same graphic fidelity and framerates as a console I can easily build a computer for the cost of a console. And then I have access to emulators for free. Letalone do work on it.

This hyperbole that you have to drop $700 or more to game needs to be drowned like a bag of puppies. All you need is a PC and a descrete GPU.

Now of you want to run 1080p or higher and have all the eye candy maxed, yes.you need to start paying more on parts.

I built a PC when mgs4 came out. It ended up being around $800. Double what a ps4 cost at the time. Fun fact though. I paid for two ps3s and that thing is still running like a champ. Another fun fact? I spent $300 for 20 games on my ps4. Meanwhile my PC has over 200 titles on it. 3 such titles being of the battlefield series and their premium content packs.
Consoles only big win is they can be used by a 3 year old.

EA Responds To Battlefield Hardline DRM Complaints

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