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Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher, and I need to get
some figures to my principal because we have some money for technology we
have to spend by the end of June and we want to get the kids into video
shooting and editing. In my research from the past couple
of days, this is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take a
look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use
any and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of what we will
need:
1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC connection
2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card included.
3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and 40+ hard drive
5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads and writes and
connect it to the PC or does this have to be a DVD burner
specifically for the PC?)

And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2 different
schools. One school will use the DVD's for play on our closed circuit TV
system. The other school has no closed circuit system and no DVD players.
The easiest would be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC onto VCR tapes?

Thanks so much in advance for your help!!!
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mommio2" wrote ...
> Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher,
> and I need to get some figures to my principal because we
> have some money for technology we have to spend by the
> end of June and we want to get the kids into video shooting
> and editing. In my research from the past couple of days, this
> is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take
> a look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use any
> and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of
> what we will need:
> 1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC
connection
> 2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card
included.
> 3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
> 4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and
40+ hard drive

Looks OK to me. Disk size will depend on what you are doing:
(program length, number of programs concurrently in process, etc.)

> 5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads
> and writes and connect it to the PC or does this have to be a
> DVD burner specifically for the PC?)

DVD burner drive inside the computer allows you to create menu
screens graphics, buttons, etc. with appropriate software. Also
allows you to write data files to DVD disks which is handy for
archiving project files, disk backups, etc.)

External DVD recorder by comparison has extremely limited
functionality.

> And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2
> different schools. One school will use the DVD's for play
> on our closed circuit TV system. The other school has no
> closed circuit system and no DVD players. The easiest would
> be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
> classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC
> onto VCR tapes?

DVD players are so cheap these days, they scarecely cost more
than a case of VHS tapes. Or maybe some parents would like a
good excuse to upgrade their machine at home and donate their
current player?

But if you choose wisely, the same camcorder-firewire-card
combination will support OUTputting the video for recording
on a VHS VCR. The camcorder feature you should look for is
called "passthrough" and it is desirable to have "passthrough"
in both directions.
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mommio2" <mommio2@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:lx8zc.37590$0y.21366@attbi_s03...
> Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher, and I need to get
> some figures to my principal because we have some money for technology we
> have to spend by the end of June and we want to get the kids into video
> shooting and editing. In my research from the past couple
> of days, this is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take
a
> look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use
> any and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of what we
will
> need:
> 1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC connection

Make sure you get one that has manual focus and at least some form of
exposure control. The younger students will use the automatic features, but
you'll have at least a few more advanced students who will want the manual
features.

> 2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card included.

More likely the other way around - a lot of capture cards come with editing
software bundled with them. Personally, I recommend you check out the
Canopus line, and stay FAR FAR FAR away from Pinnacle (google 'pinnacle' and
I think you'll see why)

> 3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
> 4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and 40+ hard drive

Not to bad, but I would recommend a SECOND hard drive dedicated exclusively
to video. Given the cost of HD's now, get an 80.

> 5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads and writes and
> connect it to the PC or does this have to be a DVD burner
> specifically for the PC?)

You'll be able to do more with the DVD burner.

> And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2 different
> schools. One school will use the DVD's for play on our closed circuit TV
> system. The other school has no closed circuit system and no DVD players.
> The easiest would be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
> classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC onto VCR tapes?

If you get a capture card, you will either be able to output directly to the
VCR, or back to the camera (to record the finished edit on DV ), and from
the camera to the VCR. You don't even need to record in the camera, just use
it as a "pass-through" to convert from firewire to composite.
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mommio2" <mommio2@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:lx8zc.37590$0y.21366@attbi_s03...
> Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher, and I need to get
> some figures to my principal because we have some money for technology we
> have to spend by the end of June and we want to get the kids into video
> shooting and editing. In my research from the past couple
> of days, this is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take
a
> look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use
> any and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of what we
will
> need:
> 1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC connection
> 2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card included.
> 3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
> 4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and 40+ hard drive
> 5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads and writes and
> connect it to the PC or does this have to be a DVD burner
> specifically for the PC?)
>
> And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2 different
> schools. One school will use the DVD's for play on our closed circuit TV
> system. The other school has no closed circuit system and no DVD players.
> The easiest would be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
> classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC onto VCR tapes?
>
> Thanks so much in advance for your help!!!
>
>

Producing VCR tapes:
Some vidcams allow you to output from your computer through your vidcam via
firewire and then from the vidcam video and audio outputs to your VCR. Or
if that does not work you can transfer your finished video via firewire (as
an AVI file) to tape on your vidcam then play that tape from your vidcam to
your VCR.
I have not yet tried playing the video from the PC directly to VCR which is
possible with some video cards which have a "TV out" feature.

Comments:
The camera you get will have a great effect of what you can do and the best
way to go about it. www.camcorderinfo.com is a pretty good web site with
forum for help and some good camera advice. A bit more technical but with
good information/articles videohelp.com .

Many new computers come with firewire cards or they are inexpensive.

Be aware that the high quality video files are about 13 GB per hour of
recording. With editing etc a 40 GB hard drive might be tight if a lot is
loaded on your system.

If you have XP on your system the Microsoft Movie Maker is on the system.
It's free and relatively easy to use for editing.

I hope you are aware of educational discounts available especially on
software from many vendors.

Good luck!

Rich
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

looks ok. Make sure you get a huge drive for video (250GB) and do not use
your system's 40G drive


"Mommio2" <mommio2@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:lx8zc.37590$0y.21366@attbi_s03...
> Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher, and I need to get
> some figures to my principal because we have some money for technology we
> have to spend by the end of June and we want to get the kids into video
> shooting and editing. In my research from the past couple
> of days, this is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take
a
> look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use
> any and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of what we
will
> need:
> 1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC connection
> 2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card included.
> 3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
> 4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and 40+ hard drive
> 5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads and writes and
> connect it to the PC or does this have to be a DVD burner
> specifically for the PC?)
>
> And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2 different
> schools. One school will use the DVD's for play on our closed circuit TV
> system. The other school has no closed circuit system and no DVD players.
> The easiest would be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
> classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC onto VCR tapes?
>
> Thanks so much in advance for your help!!!
>
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message
news😛7jzc.85613$ww4.82309@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> looks ok. Make sure you get a huge drive for video (250GB) and do not use
> your system's 40G drive
>
I wonder if we should suggest that the data drive be a external
USB-2 or Firewire drive, so projects can be moved from machine
to machine, and/or multiple projects can be worked on just by
swapping drives.

I'm using ADS Pyro USB-2/Firewire external enclosure with a
removable tray. It makes it very easy to switch from one drive
to the next. A major advantage is that you can swap drives
without a reboot (hot swap).

David
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Mommio2 wrote:

> Hi! I am VERY new at this! I am a K-8 Computer Teacher, and I need to get
> some figures to my principal because we have some money for technology we
> have to spend by the end of June and we want to get the kids into video
> shooting and editing. In my research from the past couple
> of days, this is what I have come up with. Would you be so kind as to take a
> look and tell me if I am on the right track? I could use
> any and all suggestions! Thanks! Here is my preliminary list of what we will
> need:
> 1. Digital Camcorder with IEEE1394 port and cable for PC connection
> 2. Video editing software, hopefully, with a Firewire card included.
> 3. Firewire Card (if it did not come with the software)
> 4. PC with 1.4 + Ghz, 512 RAM, 64 meg graphic card, and 40+ hard drive
> 5. DVD burner (Can we use a combo DVD/VCR which reads and writes and
> connect it to the PC or does this have to be a DVD burner
> specifically for the PC?)
>
> And now for my next question ... I teach 2 days each at 2 different
> schools. One school will use the DVD's for play on our closed circuit TV
> system. The other school has no closed circuit system and no DVD players.
> The easiest would be to put the show on VCR tapes and give them to each
> classroom. How can we get the edited movies from the PC onto VCR tapes?
>
> Thanks so much in advance for your help!!!

I know this will spark a apple vs pc debate, but I'm not trying to do that..

But.. I'm very impressed with Apple's education website regarding just
this subject..

http://education.apple.com/education/ilife/

There was a link in their that showed some 3-4 graders creating there
own documentaries, and its really really impressive! There's also a
link to help build a complete suite camera(s)/computer(s) and format a
proposal.

All I can say is that its too bad they didn't have this kind of power
when I was growing up!! :) I had to save for 3 months of paper route
money to buy a super 8mm camera (no sound). Film was 'developed' over
at the local photomat, and we couldn't even comprehend editing on a
computer back then.. Kids are so lucky these days!

-Richard
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Richard Ragon" <bsema04NOSPAM@hanaho.com> wrote in message
news:W%jzc.17456925$Id.2882197@news.easynews.com...
> Mommio2 wrote:
> I know this will spark a apple vs pc debate, but I'm not trying to do
that..

Although I use a PC for my work, I would also recommend Apple for video
work. HOWEVER, I would NOT recommend it if the teacher is unfamiliar with
Apple. Let him stick with the systems he knows - better for the kids than to
have him trying to help them out with something he's unfamiliar with.
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"david.mccall" <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UQjzc.51154$Sw.20347@attbi_s51...
>
> "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message
> news😛7jzc.85613$ww4.82309@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> > looks ok. Make sure you get a huge drive for video (250GB) and do not
use
> > your system's 40G drive
> >
> I wonder if we should suggest that the data drive be a external
> USB-2 or Firewire drive, so projects can be moved from machine
> to machine, and/or multiple projects can be worked on just by
> swapping drives.
>
> I'm using ADS Pyro USB-2/Firewire external enclosure with a
> removable tray. It makes it very easy to switch from one drive
> to the next. A major advantage is that you can swap drives
> without a reboot (hot swap).
>
> David
>
>

The only problem I have with that is that the camera and the drive are on
the same FW port. Often, this has been problematic for me when capturing or
outputting. Perhaps a seperate FW card for the drive.
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message
news:sgmzc.71586$Dx5.45313@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > I wonder if we should suggest that the data drive be a external
> > USB-2 or Firewire drive, so projects can be moved from machine
> > to machine, and/or multiple projects can be worked on just by
> > swapping drives.
> >
> > I'm using ADS Pyro USB-2/Firewire external enclosure with a
> > removable tray. It makes it very easy to switch from one drive
> > to the next. A major advantage is that you can swap drives
> > without a reboot (hot swap).
> >
> > David
> >
> >
>
> The only problem I have with that is that the camera and the drive are on
> the same FW port. Often, this has been problematic for me when capturing
or
> outputting. Perhaps a seperate FW card for the drive.
>
Some 1394 cards have multiple connections, are they shared
on the same port? How about using USB-2 for the drive and
1394 for the camera? Just thinking out loud. Maybe Keith
can jump in here.

David
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"david.mccall" <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mpmzc.49191$HG.47973@attbi_s53...
>
> "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message
> news:sgmzc.71586$Dx5.45313@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > > I wonder if we should suggest that the data drive be a external
> > > USB-2 or Firewire drive, so projects can be moved from machine
> > > to machine, and/or multiple projects can be worked on just by
> > > swapping drives.
> > >
> > > I'm using ADS Pyro USB-2/Firewire external enclosure with a
> > > removable tray. It makes it very easy to switch from one drive
> > > to the next. A major advantage is that you can swap drives
> > > without a reboot (hot swap).
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The only problem I have with that is that the camera and the drive are
on
> > the same FW port. Often, this has been problematic for me when capturing
> or
> > outputting. Perhaps a seperate FW card for the drive.
> >
> Some 1394 cards have multiple connections, are they shared
> on the same port? How about using USB-2 for the drive and
> 1394 for the camera? Just thinking out loud. Maybe Keith
> can jump in here.
>
> David
>
>
Pretty good article:
http://videosystems.com/dcc/video_dv_nle_gotchas/
"Associated with FireWire and USB connections is the problem of ganging
multiple devices and having the system not be able to handle the
configuration. Sometimes changes in OS system settings and BIOS need to be
addressed for a configuration to work. The most common problem is attaching
a camera and an external drive and then using both simultaneously. Some
editors with qualified cameras and external drives have no problem, and
others give up after trying to make their configurations work. You should
only use devices specified by the system manufacturer. If problems still
occur, try changing the position of the devices in the FireWire chain or try
shorter cable lengths."


I don't know if it's mentioned in the above article but bandwidth is shared
among all the devices on the 1394 chain. But I guess it would be a
bottleneck on much of the system.

Rich
 
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Wow, Guys, I am overwhelmed! Thanks very, very much for all the great
advice! I have a meeting tomorrow with my principal and the company that
maintains our network. Now I'll sound like I know what I'm talking about!!!
You've given me some great suggestions and facts to go on! Really
appreciate it!
Mommio


"Rich" <richsanchez43@usa.com> wrote in message
news:RImzc.4771$Wr.272@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "david.mccall" <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:mpmzc.49191$HG.47973@attbi_s53...
> >
> > "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message
> > news:sgmzc.71586$Dx5.45313@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > > I wonder if we should suggest that the data drive be a external
> > > > USB-2 or Firewire drive, so projects can be moved from machine
> > > > to machine, and/or multiple projects can be worked on just by
> > > > swapping drives.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using ADS Pyro USB-2/Firewire external enclosure with a
> > > > removable tray. It makes it very easy to switch from one drive
> > > > to the next. A major advantage is that you can swap drives
> > > > without a reboot (hot swap).
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The only problem I have with that is that the camera and the drive are
> on
> > > the same FW port. Often, this has been problematic for me when
capturing
> > or
> > > outputting. Perhaps a seperate FW card for the drive.
> > >
> > Some 1394 cards have multiple connections, are they shared
> > on the same port? How about using USB-2 for the drive and
> > 1394 for the camera? Just thinking out loud. Maybe Keith
> > can jump in here.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> Pretty good article:
> http://videosystems.com/dcc/video_dv_nle_gotchas/
> "Associated with FireWire and USB connections is the problem of ganging
> multiple devices and having the system not be able to handle the
> configuration. Sometimes changes in OS system settings and BIOS need to be
> addressed for a configuration to work. The most common problem is
attaching
> a camera and an external drive and then using both simultaneously. Some
> editors with qualified cameras and external drives have no problem, and
> others give up after trying to make their configurations work. You should
> only use devices specified by the system manufacturer. If problems still
> occur, try changing the position of the devices in the FireWire chain or
try
> shorter cable lengths."
>
>
> I don't know if it's mentioned in the above article but bandwidth is
shared
> among all the devices on the 1394 chain. But I guess it would be a
> bottleneck on much of the system.
>
> Rich
>
>
 
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