ET: Quake Wars Beta Unsatisfying

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Your intentions may be good, but you're just digging yourself a bigger hole... readers shouldn't have to lay out an entire timeline of Quake, Battlefield, or Wolfenstein for your education. The point is, you're just not knowledgable in this area.

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is what happens when you take the gameplay of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory [which was directly based off of Return to Castle Wolfenstein] and the Quake Universe.

^^^ Nowhere in the above statement do you see the words EA or Battlefield. Because you truly don't understand the game's roots (let alone the genre), you lack a basic understanding of the game and should refrain from such reviews (until said education).

The gameplay is in no way even remotely comparable to Battlefield...
...it IS directly comparable to RtCW and Wolf:ET.
- TheShniz
 
OK. Of the people posting in this thread how many have actually played Quake Wars?

And I'll say this again...in which Quake game and which Wolfenstein game can you drive vehicles?
 
I have, and I continue to play Quake Wars each day, thanx...

...technically, you could drive in a tank in both RtCW and Wolf:ET, although it was in the form of escorting.

Q: In what game back then could you drive a vehicle (as in steer)?
A: NONE!
Q: Did Battlefield 1942?
A: NOPE!
Q: Does Vehicular combat define Battlefield-esque gameplay?
A: NOPE!
Q: Does it define BF2/2142?
A: Yeah, but then again so did Carmageddon!
Q: Is BF2/2142 the only FPS games w/ vehicles?
A: NOPE!

Your own definition of what BF2 is so poorly defined itself, it's hard to say anything other than... "well if there's a car in it, it must be Battlefield".

If it does NOT walk like a duck, does NOT talk like a duck, nor does it leave duck crap everywhere... it must NOT be a duck!
- TheShniz
 
Holey cow, i reckon everybody needs to count to ten,... then drink a whole lot of beer, you'll feel a lot better for it. Easy on the personal attacks guys, disagree with a statement, and then give a good reason why you disagree, don't just insult the guy because you don't like what he said.

I really have nothing more to add then, i hope the games great when it's released, i know i'll focus my next computer build around ETQW and Crisis when they eventually come out :)

Ok i lied, i actually do have a couple more things to add.

Team killing in the warm up is pretty childish, I'd expect that from primary school kids, not rational thinking adults, just because "that's the way it's always been" dose not qualify as a good reason to keep this kind of behavior.

Second i think any comparison between this game and Quake are a little pointless, Quake you kill anything that moves, ETQW is team and objective based. Just because the game engine is the same means nothing, like Dark Messiah is noting like HL2, same game engine though (ok, as far as i know, i may be wrong, and I'm waiting with eager anticipation for the first person to call me a noob for getting that wrong) oh yes, and we're calling the opposing sides and GDF and Strog, not Axis and Allies, chalk another one up to the Quake franchise there.

And finally i really must emphasize the importance of regular beer, it'll help you all relax a little, and this thread needs a little more relaxation, this is a game we're all looking forward to after all, lets just hope the final version gets all the bugs ironed out because of the positive feeback the game developers will get from releasing a public beta, and not have to wade through mounds of "you suck guy" feedback. Sadly i don't think this will happen...

 


A game has vehicles, therefore it is a battlefield clone. Are you a real journalist or an expert at internet? Sorry if that appears rude but I have to question your ability to research as well as be coherent.

I don't understand by MP shooter conduct, are you upset that you keep getting TKed during a dead round? Also, if there is hopping in the game, how is that LIKE BATTLEFIELD. The only similarities between the games is that they both have sets of vehicles. other than that they are nothing a like.



No it is not a quake game, it is an enemy territory game that has expanded with vehicles in the Quake Universe. Would you compare aBattlefield 2 infantry combat game to enemy territory wolfenstein? No you wouldn't. Why? Because even though they are both infantry (in this example) both shooters play VERY DIFFERENTLY. I'll explain why.

The battlefield series, is a series of tactical shooters. I define tactical as not raw skill, but better positioning and initiative. It is also a much slower game.

Enemy Territory series, is about run and gun action. Jumping, crouch tapping, strafe-jumping are not only common place, but necessary to survive in the game atleast a high levels of play. Quake wars adds vehicles to the mix, but they are different than in Battlefield. Quake Wars is all about speed an rushing.

My point is if the ET:QW gameplay is like a battlefield series type game, then the skills you learned in that game should directly correlate into this one.

Fact is, it is easier for a previous ET player to adjust to this game, then it is for a player who exclusively played the BF series. A lot of BF series players on the forums have been complaining about the speed the of the game being too fast. Several W:ET players have been saying either the speed is fine, OR too SLOW.

W:ET players would not thrive based on that background alone in a BF series game. They would have to learn new skills to adjust to that game style.

Same applies to both W:ET and BF series players in ET:QW, only the W:ET have an easier time adjusting as the game is not as dominated by vehicles like in BF2

Also I posted this article on the official forums, to gather other opinions of peoples who are probably playing the game as we speak.

http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5659
 


Wow that's a pretty wicked bit of sarcasm and attitude there... especially considering that your statement is completely false.

This is from badman... the Community Manager that works for SD. He posted it on the official community site in response to a thread posted there linking to your post:

The id guys closely involved with all aspects of development. Design, code,art, level design, marketing, you name it. ETQW is id's game and nothing happens without their approval.

That said, most of the negative issues he outlined in the article are taken care of in beta 2.



It seems you've got a pretty even mix of both going on.
 
Yeah, the review actually had facts in it which is nice. It is nice to know that the reviewer was also a previous W:ET player.

Even if the reviewer said he was unsatisfied, it would be because he analyzed the facts in a logical manner, rather than spitting out a lot of non-sense.
 
This is like a review for an MMORPG written by someone who thinks WoW was the first one created and all the rest should conform to it. Just admit that you're not used to strafing shooters and, because you died a lot and didn't have much fun playing, you decided to give the entire review a negative spin.
 
Jeez, tough crowd....I'm deathly afraid of what will happen once my Unreal Tournament 3 beta article goes up soon.

I would just like to point out the following paragraph: "Being a beta, QW has a tons of bugs. Sometimes, during game play, things will freeze for a few seconds. Player animations appear very choppy, almost sprite-like. Certainly not the smooth movement we expect from a next generation game. The stats component is also very poor. It doesn't calculate individual stats like how many kills you have or what your accuracy was. It only tells you who was the best soldier, medic, etc... This can definitely use an improvement. There are more that I can list. At this point, I hope this is an early beta because this game is no where near production ready. Hopefully, they will be patient and release it when it's ready."

Now, given the negative response Travis' beta review has received from some of the members on this forum, you might think that the above quote would be from his article. And that would be incorrect. The above quote is from the pwngamer.com article that Wickedmonster cited.

Here's what Travis wrote: "One of the first things I noticed about the beta was a bug involving the server filters. When you populate a new list of servers and try to filter them down, the game will sometimes hide all of them, regardless of the filters you've left open. In order to get the filtered servers to appear, you need to go in and make a change to your existing filter setup and refresh the list. It isn't a deal-breaker by any means, but it's the kind of bug that may also show up in the retail version to be patched later. It's also only a minor annoyance."

And the pwngamer.com, which is detailed and a good read, ends with the following quote:
"Enemy Territory: Quake Wars has a lot of potential. It certainly is the most ambitious shooter of all time. The depth of game play in this game is amazing and complex. There are so many different nuances that are waiting to be explored by gamers worldwide. However, with the added complexity, I worry that Splash Damage has bit off more than they can chew. Game play is still very buggy and not ready for prime time. How they plan to polish it will be interesting. Can't wait for the release though!"

Again, this reviewer goes to great lengths to point out the shortcomings of the game. Is that a negative spin? Or is pwngamer.com excused from criticism because, even though it criticizes the game, it also calls Quake Wars "the most ambitious shooter of all time"? (which I don't understand at all, by the way). Which review is more negative?

I think what a lot of the heat boils down to here is Travis comparing ET:QW to Battlefield titles. Well, if you disagree with his statements about the game being influenced by Battlefield, I can understand that. However, I think if you guys look at some of the other beta reviews out there for ET:QW, you're going to find a lot of Battlefield comparisons, too.

In any event, I think it's time we all take GeOMan's advice, drink a beer and chill out.

And finally, I'll put an open call out to the forum: anyone who wants to write something on ET:QW, beta or finished product, feel free to pitch me. We're certainly open to running contrasting opinions (see the Counter-Points).
 
I wouldn't mind trying my hand at a review...


As for the bugs comment, I think the difference is again in the backround of knowledge that each reviewer possesses.

The pwngamer reviewer's bugs all directly related to gameplay that you'd expect from a Quake based game. Fluid action, and statwhorishness (which happens to be probably one of the biggest components to the quake industry ever). Travis picked on server list filters...

Hell... Valve's filtering is horrible, BF2142's is worse, and most other games have filtering/UI display issues. Tell me about bugs that relate to how this game plays, don't nitpick on crap that you pretty much have to deal with at some level in every game. To Travis's credit, I felt that the comment on the landscaping was spot on with something that I wanted to hear.

I don't mind the fact that he compares it to BF2142 except for the fact that it's the ONLY game he compares it to. To me, other games should only be referenced as something to help the reader get a feel for what the game is like... not as a checklist of, "this new game should be like this existing game, but it's not." The only exception to that being a new game in a series comparing to an older game (like Starcraft/StarcraftII).

Sure, I think we all got off on a hot foot... it's just a bit annoying to see a journalist write about something that he's obviously not familiar with, and it's more annoying the closer you are related to the subject he's writing about. Like I said, I've been playing Quake since it's earliest conception, and I felt that the author did not represent the view of an individual educated in the series. On the same token, I would get pretty pissy if someone to pit Asheron's Call 1 (a game I've played sine 2000) against WoW.
 
"Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in."

There is way too much negative inertia for me to move, but I'm going to post this anyway. Guys, this wasn't meant as a negative article or a "review". It is quite literally some snapshot impressions from the beta that contrast Rob's take from the E3 demo.

From page 1 paragraph 1
Now I'm not a die-hard multiplayer shooter fan, but I've spent my time in Battlefield 1942, Battlefield Vietnam, PlanetSide, Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142. ET:QW may not carry a "Battlefield" moniker but it liberally borrows from the franchise while also offering some new features that make it stand out.

That is a positive.

You don't agree that it borrows liberally from Battlefield. I get that. I think it does. I've played Quake and Enemy Territory more than I'd care to admit. This feels like a Battlefield game. It's my opinion. It's OK for us to disagree. I'm not saying Battlefield is better. I'm saying they feel similar.

From page 1 paragraph 2
You may have already read Rob's coverage of Enemy Territory: Quake Wars at E3 2007, but I wanted to discuss the public beta because it differs from the demo that was introduced at E3 this year. It's also important to note that the beta version of the game does not represent the final code (and may actually represent code that is several months old).

Sometimes when people play betas they get upset that they don't work. I've never understood this because you're basically getting to play an unreleased game for free. The above paragraph is in the article to let people know that even though there were some things in the beta that I didn't like there is still plenty of time to fix them. It's to let people know not to worry about these problems yet.

From page 1 paragraph 3
It's the mixture of tactics that accompanies multiple classes with differing specialties and a host of vehicles that make this genre of games so attractive. It's never just run-and-gun death match game play.

That's positive. I know run-and-gun death match is what Quake is all about, but what I'm saying here is that Quake Wars offers more than that. I'm saying it's more than just a "Quake" game.

From page 1 paragrah 7
I didn't read any documentation before jumping in so I was a little lost at first when I got into a match. In order to really be competitive and to get some good experience points, you'll need to be somewhat familiar with the map objectives and which classes can accomplish which stages.

This is how I try all games. We're all gamers and we can jump into these things without missing a step usually, but as a journalist I have to write with people like my mother in mind just in case they read the article. I try to imagine what it would be like to play this game as if you've never played an FPS before. This one would be a little daunting. What I mean by "lost" is that I didn't know exactly where to go or how to accomplish any objectives. I didn't mean, "Wait, I can't see myself. Where is my character?!"

From page 2 paragraph 1
I think the tiered objectives that differ per map are a nice step forward. Battlefield 2142 uses a similar system in Titan games, but for each map they are always the same. ET:QW differs from the Battlefield games in that it does not employ a ticket system where the first side to reach zero tickets loses. The objectives that require a specific class encourage players to try out new classes and demand that the team have a mix of all of them.

Maybe these kinds of statements are being misread, but that is saying that Quake Wars is better than BF2142 in that sense. I prefer varying objectives over the same ones. So that's a positive. Actually that whole first paragraph on page is positive in comparison to the Battlefield series.

From page 2 paragraph 2
Rob found ET:QW to be quite the looker at E3, but again, my experience with the beta has proven less impressive. I don't know this for sure, but it's probable that the beta does not include all the hi-res textures in order to keep the download size manageable, and this may be responsible for what I'm seeing.

Here's a negative statement followed by an explanation for why it shouldn't be a concern in the retail version. Yes, I'm pointing out a problem in the beta, but I'm also saying not to panic about it if you're see it as well. Let's call that one a neutral.

From page 2 paragraph 3
My first impression of the UI is that it is way too cluttered and that at 1600 x 1200 the fonts are far too big (check the slide-show to see for yourself). After playing for a few hours you start to get used to all that data on the screen, but I still feel that it gets in the way.

This one's a negative. I like all the fonts to scale down when I'm at a hi-res. It's a personal preference.

From page 2 paragraph 5
The last complaint I have is about the man-to-man shooting game play. The run-and-gun portion of the game is still too frantic to rely much on tactics or skill. It seems like everyone is moving too fast when they are running, and shooting anyone is mostly spray-and-pray with a dash of luck. Some of the player warping can be attributed to lag, which has been an obstacle in every game I've played. This has been a frequent topic of discussion among the other players on multiple servers. Again this could be chalked up to un-optimized code in the beta or it could just be a bad game design. We'll have to get our hands on a retail copy to find out which.

This seems to be the hot button. Again this is personal preference. Take a deep breath...not everyone loves Quake. I prefer more tactical shooters to Quake. You'll notice that nowhere in there is the Battlefield series named as a viable alternative.

From page 2 paragraph 7
Playing betas is a hit-and-miss proposition. Sure, it's a free taste of an unreleased game, but it's unreleased because a lot of it doesn't work yet. Rob's E3 experience with Enemy Territory: Quake Wars differs from mine with the beta, but he got to see a different map in a controlled setting while I'm out here in the wild (or more appropriately the Sewer) with the animals.

I don't mean to suggest that I'm in the Sewer because the game is garbage. The only map you can play in the beta is the Sewer.

Overall I think the article is kind of positive and certainly not attacking the game or the developers. I do point out some problems, but I also offer explanations for why they may exist. I'm not an EA fanboy or a Battlefield fanatic, but those games are recent, relevant, and on reader's minds. They aren't better. I wasn't expecting Battlefield, but after playing Quake Wars the Battlefield games certainly came to mind as something that was similar and recent. I think that ET:QW is a stride forward for the genre, and I wish I had gotten that across. Perhaps a less inflammatory headline would have been better...something like "Man Has Opinion On Subject!"

I came out of my corner a little strong in the forum and I apologize for that, but unlike other game sites you may go to Rob and I read these forums and we pay attention to what you guys say. It probably didn't help that I was posting while at Comic-Con where food and sleep were at a minimum for us. I suppose I could just dismiss you with a wave of my hand from a high and mighty tower, but I don't really have a tower...yet. In the end we all want these games to be good, but it's our responsibility to tell people what we honestly think. All reviews of any kind are subjective and little more than a single person's opinion. We have to consider if the game is fun for everyone, not just the guys who've been playing ET and Quake III from day 1. Having said all that, I stand by the article. Just because I don't agree with you guys doesn't mean I'm unfamiliar with these games. All it means is that we disagree.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled character assassination.
 

Ahhhh ET so much killing/defending/glitching(play dead in the tank :), use another player to jump a wall)/sneaking with new maps always coming out.....

BTW @ op - you need to take a little criticism(maybe not this much...but still some). its part of the job.....it is no matter what anyone says it is ET + Quake. And I am awaiting it's full release.
 
I don't care if someone says something bad about the beta Rob, but your writer didn't even do research. He had the nerve to say that Id had nothing to do with the game, which is absurdly false. He stated that the gameplay is like battlefield, which is probably the most backwards thing I heard all day.

The vehicles are more like TRIBES than BF series. I don't understand why any game with vehicles has to be directly compared to BF. His narrow minded journalism as well as his inability to even get BASIC facts correct is the problem here.

If he does not like the beta thats fine, but he should at least be responsible and do some research before making absurd claims.

I really like tomshardware too, but articles like this one really make me second guess the quality of writers you let on to your staff.
 
Hey, wondering if anybody has an extra cd key or if anyone doesnt use thier account anymore. I've been tryin to get a key for quite some time now. Thx in advanced
 
OP, I haven't posted in this thread before now because I didn't see any problem with your beta review.

What I find both disgusting and hilarious is the epeen-flexing going on here:

"OH. MY. F#%@ing. GOD! How DARE you say that this game feels like Battlefield on MY FORUMS??!?! OMGOMGOMFG I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU SO MUCH WAH WAH WAH QQ!! QQ!!"

That's mostly what I'm seeing from you immature testosterone-pushing "l33t gamers who know so much better than the OP." You flare up into an uncontrollable murderous rage just because some "f4gg0t" journalist had the AUDACITY, the (quote FireWater) "nerve" to dare to write about your one subject of expertise! What is this? Have you been studying the Quake series, compiling a comprehensive deluxe guide to the series and its nuances? Only you should ever be allowed to have anything to say about the Quake games? Give me a f%#*ing break, superstars!

Firewater managed to duct tape his mouth closed again long enough to write something quite intelligent regarding the feature difference between the Battlefield and Quake series. I laud him for that. Sorry to pick on you, FW, you're just the last poster I saw spewing something idiotic. This trend is by NO MEANS confined to you.

You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You type so big and loud and strong, so important and authoritative when on the internet. You'd get your a$$ kicked in a heart beat by some of these people you're flaming if you ever met them in real life. I don't want to hear your life stories proving who you are or whom you've beaten up. I'm not interested.

There's a term for the way most of you behave, though. It's "nerd rage." It's dispicable. Grow up, get laid, stop beating your girlfriend or wife, grow some balls and be a real man, a calm self-controlled man.

Rob and tmeacham (why can't I remember your name right now?), keep up the good work, guys. I've almost always enjoyed reading your work; and when I haven't, don't worry because I've always refrained from damning you to the ninth circle of Hell for your "insulting mistakes."
 


ET: Quake Wars Beta Unsatisfying


Hmm... let me help clarify a few words for you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/title (as in, title of this article)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unsatisfying




A lot of reviewers take time to look at the faq/manual to comment on how well (or poorly) it was put together. That's just part of reviewing the game/product/whatever. Again, not doing this just shows poor journalism. If you're going to report on something, do your research. Simple as that.
 


I never saw anyone say they hated anyone else. Some people exaggerate points without even a shred of truth.

That's mostly what I'm seeing from you immature testosterone-pushing "l33t gamers who know so much better than the OP." You flare up into an uncontrollable murderous rage just because some "f4gg0t" journalist had the AUDACITY, the (quote FireWater) "nerve" to dare to write about your one subject of expertise! What is this? Have you been studying the Quake series, compiling a comprehensive deluxe guide to the series and its nuances? Only you should ever be allowed to have anything to say about the Quake games? Give me a f%#*ing break, superstars!
Never resulted in personal attack other than questioning the merit of the writer. You seem to be one projecting the insults and pawning it off as if I did.

Firewater managed to duct tape his mouth closed again long enough to write something quite intelligent regarding the feature difference between the Battlefield and Quake series. I laud him for that. Sorry to pick on you, FW, you're just the last poster I saw spewing something idiotic. This trend is by NO MEANS confined to you.

Umm I never posted anything idiotic, and thank you for your praise on my post on differentiating between ET and BF. I really do not care if you pick on me, because based of your projections you are just making me smile :)

You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You type so big and loud and strong, so important and authoritative when on the internet. You'd get your a$$ kicked in a heart beat by some of these people you're flaming if you ever met them in real life. I don't want to hear your life stories proving who you are or whom you've beaten up. I'm not interested.

You are the only one who appears to be taking some sort of authority, again projection. If I saw the article writer in real life I would have discussion about the merits of it. I would still question the writer's ability to research as well as coherence with the other games within the series. If that enrages the writer to engage in physical combat, then so be it. I would defend myself to the best of my ability, and if I failed I would probably goto a hospital. But barring that mind, if I lose a fight does that mean my points are still not valid? Does that make the article more coherent and correspond with reality? No it does not. I'm not a tough guy by any stretch of the means but I will stand up for what I believe in, if that means getting my *** kicked, so be it.

I don't believe I have revealed any personal information about myself in this discussion.

There's a term for the way most of you behave, though. It's "nerd rage." It's dispicable. Grow up, get laid, stop beating your girlfriend or wife, grow some balls and be a real man, a calm self-controlled man.

Again some more projection. It is ok for you to experience nerd rage (as in insulting the members who posted against the article and its merits) but those who do not agree with you are "nerds" therefore not valid despite the logic, and if A is true than B leads to not having regular intercourse with opposite gendered individuals, having below averaged sized testicles and not being calm and self-controlled (ironically, which you clearly are what you chastise while posting this)

Rob and tmeacham (why can't I remember your name right now?), keep up the good work, guys. I've almost always enjoyed reading your work; and when I haven't, don't worry because I've always refrained from damning you to the ninth circle of Hell for your "insulting mistakes."

Again another exaggeration, nobody said that these people are stupid or not worth anything, they just question the merits of what was written.


 
Where to begin?

I d/led the beta and played this weekend.

As a longtime FPS player from the first days of Doom through Quake/UT with stints in COD & the BF series, I'd tried most variations. I played RtCW:ET extensively and many of the mods to it.

The original review is dead on. I am still anxious for the release which I assume will address many of the issues. I pre-ordered it months ago.

For those of you trying to 'defend' the game, you need to chill. It's a game review by someone the reviews games for a living. You may be a long term Quake fanboy, but most people aren't. If iD & Splash want to sell a lot, then need to know what the causal FPS player will think.

Here's a few facts:

Bunny hopping is lame.
Snipe whoring campers are lame.
Flopping is lame.

Your pathetic arguments about them being 'skillz' are silly. Most players hate that crap. The fact that you abuse the game mechanics is a huge sign that you rely on them rather than true FPS skills like tactics...

Two things bothered me about the beta:

Camping the hillsides: Snipers up in the hills where you can't go knife them is unbalanced. Snipers are a part of the game, but opponents need a way to deal with them other than artillery or air strikes. Strogg using Icarus units to fly to prime spots may be within the game mechanics, but there should be an effective counter besides going sniper yourself. Now you can begin your defense of snipe whoring...

Spray & pray: The actual feel of the close combat is fairly un-Quakelike and more like UT. The patterns are all over the place with random headshots every now and then. The close combat feel varies from FPS game to FPS game. The precision of the COD series is very different than the UT feel or the BF style. Quake is going to be Quakelike, but Quake Wars: ET doesn't feel much like the RtCW:ET. I think it should. Now you can begin your rant about how I shouldn't feel this way.

Lastly, to the super negative posters, there are a lot of decaf coffees on the market these days, why don't you give them a try. You might also remember that it's OK to like many types of shooters. Nobody cares how hardcore Quake you are...
 
I've got beta2 on the weekend, railgun owns. It fires just like it did in alternate fire mod for quake 3, except no charge up. I play quake 3 at work everyday, a bunch of us do, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Quake Wars ain't the same, but it's still pretty fun. I especially like it since no one likes to drive tanks, I haven't gotten used to the air vehicles, is there countermeasures? I'll haft to check, because I've never seen anyone use em.