EU: Microsoft Promises Not to Block Other Browsers in Win 8

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]... Come to think of it, where is the browser choice screen for Android?...[/citation]
Did you ever actually used Android? In Android world as soon as you install a new browser and click on URL the OS will pop-up dialog asking you what browser to use to open the URL. There is also a check box that will make your choice default. So please stop spreading FUD about Android.
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Also if it's developers and sites that continue to use ActiveX then it's not Microsoft's fault at all is it?[/citation]
No. it is MS's fault. MS could remove ActiveX from IE and make it available as separate download similar to Flash, Silverlight and etc. That way any new app will be developed using standard technology and users who depend on ActiveX still will have their apps working.

And the current complain is about MS reserving access to private API for IE just like Apple on iOS. So in that sense Apple should be investigated as well. The only difference between Apple and MS is that MS still about 80%+ on desktop and Android successfully prevented Apple from owning the mobile space.
 
I have to admit, though I normally use firefox on win7, I'm in Win8 now, which I am liking, and I just switched from firefox to IE, thinking, "Man, the (no longer) Metro IE sure does use space better on my 15" screen." I'm looking forward to seeing what other metro versions come out, too, as I'm confident that other browsers will be able to integrate with other Win8 features, such as the charms.
 
[citation][nom]southernshark[/nom]No and yes. I have owned every version of Windows and no browser has ever been blocked. But the security features do block some MALWARE. So in that sense yes. I doubt anyone wants MALWARE on their computer though. Of course you could disable the security features and still install it if you are one of those people who really like your PC to be filled with viruses.As for Win 8, I am still debating it. I just have W7 home, so upgrading to Win8 pro for 40 bucks (intro offer) is very appealing.[/citation]

if you have it as a 40$ upgrade, buy a key, dont install it, and play the wait and see game.
if anything comes out that requires win 8 that you want, you got it for cheap, and if it doesnt, it was a 40$ gamble.
 
[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]Apple is not "the world's largest company"Not even remotely !Their stock is simply traded the highest in Vegas at the moment; correction.. in Wallstreet. 🙂[/citation]
For the record here is a list of the World's largest companies. Most of them are oil companies or other related energy companies. It pays to sell energy.
1) Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands)
2) Exxon Mobil (United States)
3) Wal-Mart Stores (United States)
4) BP (Britain)
5) Sinopec Group (China)
6) China National Petroleum (China)
7) State Grid (China)
8) Chevron (United States)
9) ConocoPhillips (United States)
10) Toyoto Motor (Japan)
11) Total (France)
12) Volkswagen (Germany)
13) Japan Post Holdings (Japan)
14) Glencore International (Switzerland)
15) Gazprom (Russia)
16) E.ON (Germany)
17) ENI (Italy)
18) ING Group (Netherlands)
19) General Motors (United States)
20) Samsung Electronics (South Korea)
 
[citation][nom]Tomfreak[/nom]Sticking with windows 7 unless they force DirectX 12 win 8 only.[/citation]

The chances of Windows 8 supporting DX12 are slim to none. That won't be until Windows 9 or 10 (assuming that they stick with the same numbering system), although maybe a service pack will ad it in Windows 8 a few years down the line.
 
[citation][nom]Max Collodi[/nom]For the record here is a list of the World's largest companies. Most of them are oil companies or other related energy companies. It pays to sell energy.1) Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands)2) Exxon Mobil (United States)3) Wal-Mart Stores (United States)[/citation]
Your list is by 'Revenue' which doesn't indicate the 'largest companies', you can have large revenues and still suffer a net loss.

To some 'largest company' can have all sorts of meanings, and the Market Cap (most valuable) goes to Apple currently which in practice means 'safest.'

There's all sorts of 'metrics' to base a companies 'size.'
 
[citation][nom]jaquith[/nom]Your list is by 'Revenue' which doesn't indicate the 'largest companies', you can have large revenues and still suffer a net loss. To some 'largest company' can have all sorts of meanings, and the Market Cap (most valuable) goes to Apple currently which in practice means 'safest.'There's all sorts of 'metrics' to base a companies 'size.'[/citation]

Like how much of the value are 'hard assets' for example.
How many employees; jobs are created and what kind of jobs.
McDonald's Burger flipping jobs are worth as much as a Boeing Engineer ?

Remember, Apple has no manufacturing and is basically a one horse show dependend on foreign suppliers exporting American jobs.
IPad is making them a load of money. In the computer market they are 5%, in the Phone market they are what, 3rd at the moment ?

Apple is the flavor of the day, but has no long term staying power at this level.
They missed the boat back in the Apple II days.
They lost out with the all in one Macintosh/Lisa concept.
The 'cube' did not work out...

And as for the phones, they have basically a 'one fits all' product that happens to be popular at the moment. So where Pet rocks at some point; incidentally both have about the same weight 🙂

Let's talk again in 2-3 years when the Apple stock is in the low 200s !


Hey, I predicted the Facebook stock right and sold them short. Thanks Wallstreet 🙂

 
[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]Like how much of the value are 'hard assets' for example.How many employees; jobs are created and what kind of jobs.McDonald's Burger flipping jobs are worth as much as a Boeing Engineer ?

Remember, Apple has no manufacturing and is basically a one horse show dependend on foreign suppliers exporting American jobs. .... [/citation]
Well Apple like Boeing keeps their 'brain trust' in the US, and like Apple, Boeing is in the beginnings of shipping it's labor oversees particularly (big mistake) China.

Listen the problem isn't 'companies' as such the real issue is the toxic China offerings: essentially slave labor, currency manipulation, theft of intellectual property, environmental ... the list goes on. China needs to be expelled from the WTO. Many Countries are feeling the pinch and are hemorrhaging money to China, the Companies 'think' they want that (quick profits) -- short term sure -- long term the remainder of the World won't be able to buy their 'stuff' and China will take anything they see fit technology and wipe the non-Chinese companies out.
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]seriously, if i was microsoft i would patch the internet out of windows for them, just out of spite. not forcing windows to package every browser with the computer and asking which they want installed. i would have a problem if windows actively blocked programs from working, but they dont... anyone know if they did in the past?[/citation]
Actually the EU wanted Microsoft to release a Windows without IE. Microsoft was the one that proposed the idea of the browser selection screen as an alternative.
 
[citation][nom]Tomfreak[/nom]Sticking with windows 7 unless they force DirectX 12 win 8 only.[/citation]
Windows 8 is suppose to include a minor upgrade to DirectX (Version 11.1)
I don't think MS will limit DirectX in Windows 7 (after all they did allow upgrades to DirectX11 to Vista users). Likely they will make the next full DirectX 12 exclusive to Windows 9
 
[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Actually the EU wanted Microsoft to release a Windows without IE. Microsoft was the one that proposed the idea of the browser selection screen as an alternative.[/citation]
All I want is a level playing field, if the decision to have the browser downloaded rather than integrated was there it would still be the same as browser screen, the first time you use it the damn thing pops up and shows you a few browsers to pick from in random order, IE is not always the first on the list
...
If you don't pick IE then it downloads it and installs it and away you go - I have no issue with that apart from each of these browsers has contributed zero towards the advertising of their product, Google spends millions pouring Chrome on every website you go to, billboards, added onto every bit of freeware around, but for the privilige of having an advert on 50 million new PCs every year in Europe they pay not a single penny
...
So back to Google, having a virtual monopoly in the search engine market, whenever they have the link at the top of the Google homepage saying "Download and use Chrome", right next to it there should be another 4 links for Opera, IE, Safari and Firefox
 
[citation][nom]jaquith[/nom]Well Apple like Boeing keeps their 'brain trust' in the US, and like Apple, Boeing is in the beginnings of shipping it's labor oversees particularly (big mistake).[/citation]

As for Apple's US brain trust; take a walk around Apple HQ during lunch time. Interesting mix of faces!

It is common practice in the aerospace industry to let foreign manufacturers make some parts of the aircraft in exchange for sales to that market.

While you are right that China has a sad record on patents, trademarks and labor practices one has to remember that we went thru the same process years ago. Also, we are asking them to make our products. You can hardly blame the Chinese for accepting!

As their people get a taste of money, freedom of speech and consumer goods they will demand more competitive salaries etc. And before you know it China will have to outsource too 🙂

 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Not Apple hate, just annoying that the worlds largest company doesn't have to comply with the same laws, where is the browser choice screen in OSX or iOS? Come to think of it, where is the browser choice screen for Android?[/citation]Yeah Android comes bundled with a Google browser. They should obviously be forced to implement a browser ballot in the EU, just like MS! Also the EU should siphon tons of cash from Google first, you know, to teach them a lesson (also just like MS).
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]i thought that the final straw was major corporations betting billions on bad debt that would had the odds of paying out that were worse than betting green on roulette [/citation]He's right though, a lot of it goes back to debt. Don't forget the feds also pushed for "fair and affordable" housing, especially under Clinton/Cuomo in the 90s. They forced Freddie and Fannie deep into the subprime market, forced them to make high-risk loans with sky-high dollar figures and no downpayments. They had an understanding with these banks that if things turned sour, they'd bail them out. Look what happened some years later... Freddie and Fannie, bailed out. Just a few years prior to that you have shmucks like Bwarney Fwank (Barney Frank) saying that Freddie and Fannie are in no danger at all. So as usual the federal government had their fair share of the burden.[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]apples computer install base is pathetic, windows still has a monopoly when it comes to the desktop. so as far as that goes, apple doesnt need to play by the same rules as a monopoly. that said, the eu is so stupid when it comes to crap they make windows do and the fines they make them pay, all over internet explorer... seriously, if i was microsoft i would patch the internet out of windows for them, just out of spite. not forcing windows to package every browser with the computer and asking which they want installed.[/citation]Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly. You can go buy a Mac, a Chromebook, even a PC with such and such Linux distro. It'll do everything the typical user needs it to do. There are online dictionaries if you're confused about what a monopoly is.

Regarding "patching the internet out of windows" for spite, that would be stupid. Who would use such a product? They would completely lose the European market... for spite? Plus that assumes that the EU commission would let them. When the EU first came down on them hard for bundling IE with Windows, MS planned on releasing a version with no browser preinstalled, leaving it up to the OEMs or users. The EU prevented them from doing so, and instead demanded that they use the ballot system. That wasn't Microsoft's idea, and it wasn't their choice.
 
No, that's not quite how that played out. You've got it backwards. Maybe that is what the EU initially appeared to be after, given their "preliminary findings". But after MS finally caved, made some changes, and offered to just remove IE? The EC decided this wasn't good enough, and the rest is history. In case anyone cares:

http://gizmodo.com/5290032/microsoft-volunteers-ie-removal-from-windows-7-to-appease-eu

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/microsoft-to-eu-antitrust-this-will-remove-ie-from-win-7-in-europe/4926

http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2009/06/11/working-to-fulfill-our-legal-obligations-in-europe-for-windows-7.aspx

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

http://4sysops.com/archives/windows-7-web-browser-ballot-screen-the-important-facts/
 
[citation][nom]jaquith[/nom]Your list is by 'Revenue' which doesn't indicate the 'largest companies', you can have large revenues and still suffer a net loss. To some 'largest company' can have all sorts of meanings, and the Market Cap (most valuable) goes to Apple currently which in practice means 'safest.'There's all sorts of 'metrics' to base a companies 'size.'[/citation]
You're right of course. Different criteria produces different results. Combining all factors pushes Exxon Mobile to the top of the list. If you base the list on assets. then banks and holding companies move up. In fact, the number one company in terms of assets is the Royal Bank of Scotland. As a business owner myself with zero market value, profit is most important to me.
 
[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Actually the EU wanted Microsoft to release a Windows without IE. Microsoft was the one that proposed the idea of the browser selection screen as an alternative.[/citation]

without ie at all... how the hell would they get on the web to get an alternative at that point.

[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]He's right though, a lot of it goes back to debt. Don't forget the feds also pushed for "fair and affordable" housing, especially under Clinton/Cuomo in the 90s. They forced Freddie and Fannie deep into the subprime market, forced them to make high-risk loans with sky-high dollar figures and no downpayments. They had an understanding with these banks that if things turned sour, they'd bail them out. Look what happened some years later... Freddie and Fannie, bailed out. Just a few years prior to that you have shmucks like Bwarney Fwank (Barney Frank) saying that Freddie and Fannie are in no danger at all. So as usual the federal government had their fair share of the burden.Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly. You can go buy a Mac, a Chromebook, even a PC with such and such Linux distro. It'll do everything the typical user needs it to do. There are online dictionaries if you're confused about what a monopoly is.Regarding "patching the internet out of windows" for spite, that would be stupid. Who would use such a product? They would completely lose the European market... for spite? Plus that assumes that the EU commission would let them. When the EU first came down on them hard for bundling IE with Windows, MS planned on releasing a version with no browser preinstalled, leaving it up to the OEMs or users. The EU prevented them from doing so, and instead demanded that they use the ballot system. That wasn't Microsoft's idea, and it wasn't their choice.[/citation]

cornering what, at least 80% of the home market, i beleiv it was up to 90% at some point.
most programs are only on windows,
because most programs are only on windows, you get windows
and because you need to get windows to use most programs they can really set it at whatever price they want that they think you will play.

mac... not really an option for many people,
linux, till more recently, was even less of an option than mac.
and dont make me laugh at chromebooks.
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]without ie at all... how the hell would they get on the web to get an alternative at that point. cornering what, at least 80% of the home market, i beleiv it was up to 90% at some point. most programs are only on windows,because most programs are only on windows, you get windowsand because you need to get windows to use most programs they can really set it at whatever price they want that they think you will play. mac... not really an option for many people,linux, till more recently, was even less of an option than mac. and dont make me laugh at chromebooks.[/citation]

You could initiate the download of FF or Chrome without IE, but it probably wouldn't be the easiest thing to do for a novice.
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]without ie at all... how the hell would they get on the web to get an alternative at that point.[/citation]Well he's wrong (as I stated before) in that it wasn't really the EU's idea. They just said that MS was abusing their power by bundling IE. MS offered to remove IE (against their will, but the steep fines were getting old), and then the EU decided that wasn't enough. Hence the browser poll being brewed up within the EC and them making MS implement said browser poll in the EU. Really, it's all quite idiotic, I don't even think that most Europeans hold the EC in very high regard.

But to answer your question... when the plan was to offer Windows with no IE bundled, MS was going to offer free IE CDs to anyone that wanted it. That way they wouldn't be bundling IE with the OS, but you could still get it easily. You could pick up a CD at your local retailer, perhaps, or request a CD by mail. Alternatively, they had FTP servers you could get it from, even without a browser. OEMs would still be bundling browser(s), so this issue only affects retail copies. Almost anyone doing a fresh non-upgrade install of Windows will be able to figure out FTP, especially if the retail box has a little note with instructions.[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]cornering what, at least 80% of the home market, i beleiv it was up to 90% at some point. most programs are only on windows,because most programs are only on windows, you get windowsand because you need to get windows to use most programs they can really set it at whatever price they want that they think you will play. mac... not really an option for many people,linux, till more recently, was even less of an option than mac. and dont make me laugh at chromebooks.[/citation]It's still not a monopoly, first of all. Second, you talk about them setting "whatever price they want". Well explain to me then why Apple machines are so much more expensive, despite big ol' mean Microsoft and their monopoly power abusing prices. The vast majority of PC users don't buy Windows... they buy a box with Windows preinstalled. You can bet that if MS charged OEMs "whatever price they want" there'd be an exodus. Look at the cost of the original Windows 1.0 Retail - $100. Adjust for ~27 years of inflation.

As for Macs, Linux distros, and Chromebooks... I'm no fan of Chromebooks, and I think that they're overpriced, and useless without good internet access. However, all of those three choices would satisfy the typical needs of your average PC user. Internet, email, Facebook. Heck, a Mac is even very iTunes friendly, so all your hypothetical iDevices will sync easily. While I certainly don't think any of them replace a Windows machine for ALL users, I was just pointing out that there are choices and that MS is not a monopoly.
 
[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]Well he's wrong (as I stated before) in that it wasn't really the EU's idea. They just said that MS was abusing their power by bundling IE. MS offered to remove IE (against their will, but the steep fines were getting old), and then the EU decided that wasn't enough. Hence the browser poll being brewed up within the EC and them making MS implement said browser poll in the EU. Really, it's all quite idiotic, I don't even think that most Europeans hold the EC in very high regard.But to answer your question... when the plan was to offer Windows with no IE bundled, MS was going to offer free IE CDs to anyone that wanted it. That way they wouldn't be bundling IE with the OS, but you could still get it easily. You could pick up a CD at your local retailer, perhaps, or request a CD by mail. Alternatively, they had FTP servers you could get it from, even without a browser. OEMs would still be bundling browser(s), so this issue only affects retail copies. Almost anyone doing a fresh non-upgrade install of Windows will be able to figure out FTP, especially if the retail box has a little note with instructions.It's still not a monopoly, first of all. Second, you talk about them setting "whatever price they want". Well explain to me then why Apple machines are so much more expensive, despite big ol' mean Microsoft and their monopoly power abusing prices. The vast majority of PC users don't buy Windows... they buy a box with Windows preinstalled. You can bet that if MS charged OEMs "whatever price they want" there'd be an exodus. Look at the cost of the original Windows 1.0 Retail - $100. Adjust for ~27 years of inflation.As for Macs, Linux distros, and Chromebooks... I'm no fan of Chromebooks, and I think that they're overpriced, and useless without good internet access. However, all of those three choices would satisfy the typical needs of your average PC user. Internet, email, Facebook. Heck, a Mac is even very iTunes friendly, so all your hypothetical iDevices will sync easily. While I certainly don't think any of them replace a Windows machine for ALL users, I was just pointing out that there are choices and that MS is not a monopoly.[/citation]

anti trust after anti trust, thats what got them to where they are today
they offer oem copies cheaper, or at a borderline free price depending on pc specs, because it gets people use to windows.
they sell bulk oem and business copies, where i believe most of their money is made
its cheap because people who use it at home their whole lives, go to business, who use it because its what people are use to.
hell at one point they openly said, they dont care about china pirateing windows, because at some point they will figure out how to get them to pay, and when they do, they will be swimming in money (the windows store makes sense now)

now lets look at macs... who for the most part, only had any amount of dominance 10-20 years ago.
back than, they werent expansive because they skimped on the parts, and sold it at massive overpriced... they actually put parts in to make it more powerfull/useable than the old pc side of things.

macs, at least for what i remember, where always about the hardware, and not software.
they are a hardware company first and foremost.
now look at the market.
you can build your own computer
you can get a computer better than theirs for cheaper
you can build whatever you want
you have a wide array of choices
and if you go with those choices and microsoft, low and behold, more software is compatible with you now than with a mac

if you want to talk about mp3 players, i cant speak for early itunes, i cant even speak for itunes now.
but i can say that in the beginning they really had something, may not be the first but was the nicest.
funny thing is though, within a few years, you had sub 30$ versions of mp3 players, that could hold several cds of songs, and probably all the songs you want to listen to.

look at the iphone, really it was just a phone with a small computer inside it when it came out, an extension of the ipod. phones like it existed before, and will exist after, and many phones now are as functional as the iphone.

sure they have the most popular one, but really, they don't hold a monopoly.

you have to remember than mac is the only real compeditier as much as people who love linux don't want to admit, to microsoft, and mac almost went under at one point in time because of windows pure domination.

most people know of microsoft or mac, and know of nothing outside of that, at least in computers
and macs are so costly, while a low end windows is fairly cheap. microsoft will get you for whatever you can pay.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom