Everyone says 16Gbs of RAM is overkill for gaming, but some games already recommend 8Gb?

[MrCanEHdian]

So, the game Planetary Annihilation, which I hope to play with the rig I build, is on Steam and Steam recommends you have 8Gb of RAM to play the game. My question is, if a game is now suggesting you have 8Gbs, will it be long until a lot of games recommend 8Gbs or more?

 

[Tradesman1]

Sort of depends on what you do with the rig, gaming can get by w/ 8, though I prefer 16GB, I use my systems heavily and have been running 32GB for about 3+ years now.....For most I think 16GB will be good through the next 3 or so years anyway

 

[MrCanEHdian]

Sort of depends on what you do with the rig, gaming can get by w/ 8, though I prefer 16GB, I use my systems heavily and have been running 32GB for about 3+ years now.....For most I think 16GB will be good through the next 3 or so years anyway

I want 16GB, but it's pricey lmao, I'm having to hold off of my purchase for a couple weeks, so I'll be thinking about which one to get in the meantime. Thank you for your help. Do you use your PC for more than gaming? I'm guessing so, 32GB is a lot.

 

[Tradesman1]

I myself am not a gamer (though my rigs often get used for gaming by clients and family checking out performance they would see ), I get involved in all kinds of projects...on building rigs, it basically just high end Intel builds for gaming and business. Years back I built most anything, but these days pretty much just K model CPUs on Asus, the Rock and GB mobos

 

[MrCanEHdian]

I myself am not a gamer (though my rigs often get used for gaming by clients and family checking out performance they would see ), I get involved in all kinds of projects...on building rigs, it basically just high end Intel builds for gaming and business. Years back I built most anything, but these days pretty much just K model CPUs on Asus, the Rock and GB mobos

I see, so you're a business person then, building machines is what you do and make money off of it? That's badass.

 

[Tradesman1]

That's a part of it, also repairs and upgrades fall into that, then there's normal consulting, network design, install, management, training, eval, etc...little bit of everything, except programming, got out of that years ago

 

[Recycled]

The short answer is:
(1) Gamers are constantly playing with the insides of their PCs, so they don't worry about the future, and
(2) Gamers don't understand RAM. (see below)



Wolverine said: "They only recommend 8GB because they don't want you to have 4GB."

Given that most RAM comes in powers of 2, what is there between 4GB and 8GB? I mean, if you are buying more than 4GB, You get at least 8GB, right?



ClucthC said: "Most games are still written in 32 bit code. As a result, they can only access 4GB system memory."

This is a common myth.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5916959/can-a-32-bit-program-use-more-than-4gb-of-memory-on-a-64-bit-os

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx



JKHoward said: "They could use up to like... a billion GB in 64-bit! "

Every processor and motherboard has a limit on the RAM it can take.\
Here's an example that takes up to 32GB:
http://ark.intel.com/products/75122/Intel-Core-i7-4770-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz



Wolverine96 said: "Yes, I was meaning to start with 1x8GB, and after upgrading later, you will have 2x8GB. In the meantime, you would just have to suffer from not having dual-channel benefits. But I'm pretty sure 2x8GB is better than 4x4GB. I think it's faster, but if not, at least you could upgrade to 32GB later!"

In a dual-channel motherboard, it is important (for performance) to install RAM in pairs. If You have a pair of yellow DIMM sockets, and a pair of green DIMMs, install the first pair of DIMMs in the yellow DIMM sockets. It's always the lighter colored DIMM sockets that you use first.

No, 2 DIMMs will not be faster than 4. Most gaming PCs use cheap motherboards and processor sockets that only take dual channel RAM. In real PCs that use quad channel RAM, it's important (for performance) to install RAM in sets of four.



MrCanEHdian said: "then 16GB will almost be necessary in 5 years I suspect."

Moore's Law says the number of transistors will double every 18 months, not every 5 years.

People who buy twice the PC they currently use need a new PC every 18 months.

People who buy 4x the PC they currently use need a new PC every 3 years.

People who buy 8x the PC they currently use need a new PC every 4.5 years.

I buy a new PC when I can afford a system with 10x the power of my old PC. That means cache, RAM, video memory, etc.



One final note: Buy more than what you need today, and plan to upgrade. You may not actually upgrade. If you upgrade, it can save the cost of a new PC.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

That's a part of it, also repairs and upgrades fall into that, then there's normal consulting, network design, install, management, training, eval, etc...little bit of everything, except programming, got out of that years ago

So a hell of a lot more than just building, in fact, building is just a minor part of what you do. That's great, really great, always nice to hear about a business like that, something with a lot of exposure to different markets, and what I assume are some competitive advantages.

Is there good money in programming? I'm thinking of learning HTML, CSS, Javascript, and maybe down the road, Python. More for fun than anything, but building websites would be cool and managing, updating, and creating databases would be both badass and tremendously useful.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

The short answer is:
(1) Gamers are constantly playing with the insides of their PCs, so they don't worry about the future, and
(2) Gamers don't understand RAM. (see below)



Wolverine said: "They only recommend 8GB because they don't want you to have 4GB."

Given that most RAM comes in powers of 2, what is there between 4GB and 8GB? I mean, if you are buying more than 4GB, You get at least 8GB, right?



ClucthC said: "Most games are still written in 32 bit code. As a result, they can only access 4GB system memory."

This is a common myth.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5916959/can-a-32-bit-program-use-more-than-4gb-of-memory-on-a-64-bit-os

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx



JKHoward said: "They could use up to like... a billion GB in 64-bit! "

Every processor and motherboard has a limit on the RAM it can take.\
Here's an example that takes up to 32GB:
http://ark.intel.com/products/75122/Intel-Core-i7-4770-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz



Wolverine96 said: "Yes, I was meaning to start with 1x8GB, and after upgrading later, you will have 2x8GB. In the meantime, you would just have to suffer from not having dual-channel benefits. But I'm pretty sure 2x8GB is better than 4x4GB. I think it's faster, but if not, at least you could upgrade to 32GB later!"

In a dual-channel motherboard, it is important (for performance) to install RAM in pairs. If You have a pair of yellow DIMM sockets, and a pair of green DIMMs, install the first pair of DIMMs in the yellow DIMM sockets. It's always the lighter colored DIMM sockets that you use first.

No, 2 DIMMs will not be faster than 4. Most gaming PCs use cheap motherboards and processor sockets that only take dual channel RAM. In real PCs that use quad channel RAM, it's important (for performance) to install RAM in sets of four.



MrCanEHdian said: "then 16GB will almost be necessary in 5 years I suspect."

Moore's Law says the number of transistors will double every 18 months, not every 5 years.

People who buy twice the PC they currently use need a new PC every 18 months.

People who buy 4x the PC they currently use need a new PC every 3 years.

People who buy 8x the PC they currently use need a new PC every 4.5 years.

I buy a new PC when I can afford a system with 10x the power of my old PC. That means cache, RAM, video memory, etc.



One final note: Buy more than what you need today, and plan to upgrade. You may not actually upgrade. If you upgrade, it can save the cost of a new PC.

So use dual chips of RAM, don't worry about the future because it's pointless, and be aware/ok with the fact that down the road, it'll be in my best interest to open up the PC and put in some new parts?
So, a $160 Z97 motherboard would be considered cheap I take it..... Does cheap mean low quality and crappy when it comes to motherboards? I can't stand having low quality parts, because then I worry all the time that they will break down. I value peace of mind greatly.

I understand what you're saying about Moores' Law, however, I'm ok with playing games on low settings if it means using the same PC for a long time. I'm not big on spending big bucks on a gaming PC, only to make a new and spend big money in 18 months, that's way too soon for me. I guess I'd be ok with 4x the power or less even, I guess we'll see since I've never even owned a desktop, perhaps I'll change.

So, you buy a new one every 18 months or so? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but when you say you buy a new PC when you can afford it, does that mean you spend most of what you earn on PCs? I understand that people have different interests, I LOVE video games, no matter how much of a "waste" of time or money they are, but I also save/invest most of what I make.

 

[Tradesman1]

That's a part of it, also repairs and upgrades fall into that, then there's normal consulting, network design, install, management, training, eval, etc...little bit of everything, except programming, got out of that years ago

So a hell of a lot more than just building, in fact, building is just a minor part of what you do. That's great, really great, always nice to hear about a business like that, something with a lot of exposure to different markets, and what I assume are some competitive advantages.

Is there good money in programming? I'm thinking of learning HTML, CSS, Javascript, and maybe down the road, Python. More for fun than anything, but building websites would be cool and managing, updating, and creating databases would be both badass and tremendously useful.

______________

Can be good money yes, have a buddy that got into way, way back around 1980, got a job with a company as a programmer in a group, and went on to lead his own team, they outsource to major corporations, and generally as part of the compensation, he ends up with perks similar to the big execs, for the duration of a given project

 

[Recycled]

MrCanEHdian, no, that was not what I was saying. I was saying the opposite of what You think I said.

I was trying to point out that buying a system that just barely meets Your needs today is short-sighted.

I suggest buying a system with more power than You think You need today, so You can keep using the system for several more years.

Also, plan for an upgrade. The upgrade may or may not happen, but if You do not plan for upgrades, they almost certainly will not happen. Most upgrades take the place of a new PC. The best thing about an upgrade is that You don't have to replace all Your software. Windows may be "included" but Office, and the games You already paid for cost money.

 

[MrCanEHdian]

MrCanEHdian, no, that was not what I was saying. I was saying the opposite of what You think I said.

I was trying to point out that buying a system that just barely meets Your needs today is short-sighted.

I suggest buying a system with more power than You think You need today, so You can keep using the system for several more years.

Also, plan for an upgrade. The upgrade may or may not happen, but if You do not plan for upgrades, they almost certainly will not happen. Most upgrades take the place of a new PC. The best thing about an upgrade is that You don't have to replace all Your software. Windows may be "included" but Office, and the games You already paid for cost money.

I agree that it is short-sighted, sorry for misunderstanding. However, although I don't intend on building a weak machine, I'm also looking for good price/performance, and avoid diminishing returns on my "investments". I'm looking to buy good quality components like a Z97 motherboard so that later on down the road, I can keep upgrading for a while and help the rig remain relevant.
I'm looking at a 750w PSU for the extra power headroom and a GTX 760 since I am fine with 1080p and 720p, but will likely upgrade or SLI down the road. As for the CPU, I want a good one now as I may not upgrade for a long time, and I love to play a lot of CPU intensive RTS and TBS games above all else.

I am planning at the moment to build a PC with a high degree of upgrade potential down the road, I'm cool with spending more on a good motherboard and less on a good GPU now, as I can upgrade the GPU down the road, much more easily than the motherboard.

Yes, losing all that work and money spent on it is depressing... However, Steam is kind enough to let you sign onto another system and download your games, which is amazing.

Thank you for explaining your rationale .