Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

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We had 100+ heat for about 2 straight weeks in Kansas. It finally rained on Sunday afternoon and it all came in a 1hr downpour. I can't complain, it's only high 80s/low 90's projected for the next week or so.

Glad to hear you made it through the storms!
 


I can afford to loose 50 bucks much better than some of the prices of the things I've looked at lately, there's only one sure way to find out and that's to do it.

Moto, If it don't work so be it, at least I'll discover what it can do, with the least modifications to my existing setup, I already have a 2nd return line hole in the cooler so I won't have to cut that in.

Already have the tubing, tubing insulation, power supply, heat pipe heat sink an original Tuniq Tower and it's base is the perfect size, cooling fan for the Tuniq a 110cfm Silverstone, plus the water block.

So we'll see what happens. Ry
 
The Tuniq Tower will cool the hot side, the cold side will be contacting the Swiftech Apogee water block, a Silverstone OP 1000w power supply will power the peltier and cooling fan completely independent of my system.
 


so how do those things work?
 
Received the peltier yesterday I'm in my testing phase of various configurations so performance wise I don't really have anything to share as to what it can and cannot do.

Some FYI to share:

It would have been nice to have received some kind of instructions with the peltier, at least which side produced hot and which side cold, I had to use a 1.5v battery to determine that, I guess they figure if you buy something like this in the first place, you should be smart enough to figure out how to use it, anyway still, instructions would have been nice.

When energized this peltier pulls 277w by itself, so whatever load you are running this is an added given the entire time it's running, the ifs are yet to come but if this solution could allow not using the ice at all that would be remarkable but whatever it can do is to be reported later.

It will need to make some kind a significant difference to be a viable continued solution.

Here's the first major problem that had to be resolved to even run this thing, even though it's being powered by a single rail 12v power supply with 80A capability, it pulls 26A and no power supplies 18g (gauge) molex cabling is designed to handle that much power, the cabling from the power supply was getting so hot I couldn't hold my hand on it.

To resolve this problem I had to get power from the parts of the power supply that do supply that kind of load and are 14g wires, the peltier itself bare lead wires appears to be at least 14g but was not labeled as to what size the wire actually was, without modding skills this would probably be the end of this adventure for you.

This has to be resolved or it will burn out the wiring of your power supply, my power supply has 2 of the 8 pin motherboard power connections, the 2nd one is probably for a server board application, each 8 pin connector is fed by 4 14g 12v + and 4 14g Ground - wires, so I cut 2 of the 14g 12v+ and 2 14g Ground - about 3" from the plug end, to be able to repair later if needed.

Soldered the 2 14g 12v+ to 10g wire I had on hand, soldered the 2 14g Ground- to another 10g wire, then ran the 2 10g wires to the peltier 12v+ and 12v- (ground) and soldered the connections, so that supplied all the power the peltier needs to operate, and the supply wires don't even get warm now.

The unit is located in the return line to the cooler, the reason for locating it there is to attempt to cancel the heat the CPU adds to the chilled water, that location may change as I experiment with this thing.

I will share what I learn from it but for now that's all the information I am sharing at this time. Ry



 


nice. is it that much cooler or the same?
 


In 2 hrs of idle run time, being surfing the net and such, it will drop the water temperature in the cooler which is now a full 10 gallons with no ice, approximately 1.0c.

My present water temperature in the cooler is 14.1c and dropping.

While gaming playing the original Crysis fully maxxed out, it held the water temperature constant at whatever the temperature was when the playing began, I played a full hour at the same temperature, (Now that's impressive!).

It actually is performing beyond my expectations the past 2 days has been one serious learning adventure.

At this time through many changes (All first plans were thrown out the window!), and trial, effort, and error, to discover the best way to utilize the peltiers capabilities, I have finally settled on the most optimum setup.

Pictures will be coming with full details of all my discoveries, including the present setup.
 

i cant wait as this seems to be a much cheaper solution
 
Everything except the peltier I already had in possession, from past ventures.

There were sacrifices made which I would have rather not had to do, but I wasn't using it, so it got sacrificed, I'm referring to my XSPC RASA water block, it's best if you have old leftovers occupying shelves for this type of thing.

A water block is designed completely opposite of what I needed it to do, it is designed to pinpoint cooling to the CPU die location, I needed it to gather cool from the entire copper base contact area, as it was exactly the same size as the peltier.

I modified the water inlet injection protrusion inside the top of the block and shaved an 1/8th of an inch off the depth, and also cut diversion channels in it to quickly disperse the water to the entire base plate, transferring the cold from the baseplate which contacts the cold side of the peltier to the water, and forcing it out the outlet.

This water block modification made it very effective in picking up the cold from the peltier transferring the cold to the base plate.

I tried the Tuniq Tower (the original model), as previously mentioned above, but with only 3 heat pipes, it just could not overcome the heat the CPU was adding to the water.

I had a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme on the shelf and used it to cool the hot side of the peltier, it has 6 heat pipes and is very effective at handling the heat produced by the peltier.

Tried multiple combinations of fans in push/pull configuration and settled on 110cfm Sanyo Denki San Ace 120mm fans on a Nexus fan controller, they give the best of both worlds, they're set low speed presently you can barely hear them but when needed they can crank.

I have a lot more info to share but need to decide what's needed regarding what someone would need to know to consider doing this and just stuff learned the hard way.

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So, how feasible would it be to run another TEC to possibly eliminate the need for the ice chest altogether? Do you feel that running another TEC on the same PSU would be possible or are you thinking the constant power draw is more than the PSU would handle?

What about a cross flow block with pin matrix similar to what is in a universal GPU block? That might be more conducive for a cold plate interface. If you ran more than 1, you could look into having a large exchange block milled out. Shadow (who isn't on the forums much anymore) was looking into having custom blocks milled and had some software that allowed him to design water blocks and simulate heat exchange curves at specific flows. I'd have to REALLY dig back through the forums to find an example...but might be a plausible next step?

Very interested to see the write up w/ pics! Nice work...very neat to see it performed beyond your expectations.
 
just a though but why would a water block need to be modified. what is the difference from adding heat rather then taking it away. remember its not cold water it just has less energy then the hotter water. if a block can dissipate energy there should be no reason energy can not flow the other way just as effective in a pure copper block.
 


The Ice Chest still gives me extreme options for high end overclocking, I can still add ice if I want or need to, I have no intentions of eliminating the ice chest, my goal was to eliminate using ice multiple times on a daily basis, and it has accomplished just that.

I could run 2 more TEC on the same 1,000w power supply but one is doing the job, what would be the need?

At this point I don't have to be concerned with a cross flow block, the present setup is working just fine, not only is it chilling 10 gallons of water, it will hold a constant temperature while gaming, my present water temperature is 13.6c and dropping, and I haven't added ice for 2 days.
 


Todays water blocks like the RASA are very flow restrictive, the dispersion nozzle is right down on the base plate pins, it's designed to drop it's cooled water directly on the hot base plate forcing it through the dispersing pins.

The cold side of the peltier can produce 0c temperatures, that's not a time for a block that seems to love getting fouled easily and dropping the flow rate, to allow the water to stay in the block too long without flowing, or it will freeze the water block and split it wide open.

When it freezes and splits open then you'll fully understand why increased flow is an absolute must, I almost had it happen already.

I've actually had to put a sign on my computer, STOP Cut Peltier Power First, before shutting down computer!

I'll probably install a relay to control the other power supply when the PC is activated or shut down.

Since my water flow loop is controlled by the PC, and a separate Power Supply controls the peltier, if the water stops flowing with the peltier still powered it will freeze my water block, as long as it's getting power the peltier will continue the freezing process.

Could I have used the water block without modifying it?

Possibly, but I modified it for more flow through the block.




 


ah never knew it got that cold at all.
 
@rubix_1011

I know I'm bizarre to the general water cooling community so what is normal to me seems absurd to the standard loop water cooler. I'm keeping the ice chest in operation simply because it acts as a water storage buffer it's really a very large insulated reservoir, and it allows testing parameters not available to the standard water cooling loop user.

It allows operating temperatures well below ambient but above the point of condensation building, forcing extra insulating of the motherboard and such as that.

I've used this setup as it has evolved into what it is today in various CPU tests and especially with the Thermal Compound Roundup I did for THGF, so even sharing this water cooling solution in the first place is giving those that are curious of how to do things outside the box, so to speak.

Ideas like this put into operation are at the base of the very water cooling community when some guy had the idea to hook a car radiator pump and water block together and closed loop water cooling was born.

The very idea of this for me was someone here at the forums had an idea of using a peltier on a setup and drew pictures of his idea, I suggested using a water block instead but the difference is, I've accomplished it.

The inconvenience of the water chest was daily adding ice before computing could begin, and adjusting the ice amount through the day for various things and gaming was the fastest ice block melter, requiring close monitoring of the water temperature in the chest.

This peltier setup not only eliminates daily adding ice jugs, but will actually drop the water temperature while the computer is idling, and while gaming the peltier holds the water temperature at the same temperature the gaming starts at, without increasing the water temperature in the cooler.

The benefits are the freezers are not kicking into high load to freeze the jugs of water anymore because 2 freezers were sharing the freezing load and that has been eliminated, that freezing of the jugs would be going on through the night and day, every day.

The peltier setup does pull 277w actual, that is the exact tested load of the added power supply, and that 277w is only added now while the computer is actually running, vs a freezer running through the night to freeze the water jugs, but even at that I was OK with it, but this is a better solution altogether.

When Moto was looking at the thermal powered cooler, I had already entertained that idea myself but had opted to turn attention to the aquarium chillers, I thought that would be a great solution but they are so expensive, and then stumbled across that website with the thermal water chillers, and they were even more expensive.

This was just a jump into the pool gamble, I was hoping for some good results for lessening the ice usage maybe cutting it in half, but eliminating the ice altogether is a fantastic surprise.

If I had tests I needed to run at a specific water temperature I can still use ice to force drop the water temperature to a certain level then the peltier will maintain that level, so now I have the best of both worlds.

I truly respect you and your water cooling skills Garrett, you have, and are adding, so much to THGF and personally I would like to openly Thank You for all your input! Ry
 
You shouldn't be thanking me, we are all thanking you for the cooling tangents and experiments you partake and complete. You are doing a lot of things that I currently do not have the time to explore and answering a lot of questions of 'what if?' Nice work, looking forward to the full review.
 

+1
 
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