Question External HDD question and recommendation ?

smalltech

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Apr 10, 2009
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Hello,

(external 2.5-inch HDD) Seagate One Touch External HDD maximum available size for sale is 5TB, I use it to store backup and it is connected via usb and powered on 24 hours everyday

I am looking for a larger TB external hard disk and I need to switch on 24 hours everyday

I saw this: (external 3.5 inch hard disk) Seagate Expansion 8TB External Hard Drive HDD - USB 3.0, with Rescue Data Recovery Services (STKP8000400) https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expansion-External-Drive-STKP24000400/dp/B092R5KTT7/ref=sr_1_1_sspa

1. Can I switch on Seagate Expansion 24 hours everyday?

2. I am wondering is there anything like a enclosure/case that I can insert a 3.5 or 2.5 hard disk then when the disk is full I can remove the disk and replace a blank disk into the enclosure/case?

3. Can I make it cheaper by buying a 3.5 inch hard disk and buying a 3.5 inch case to build something like Seagate Expansion? Any recommendations?

4. Do you have any other recommendations for my needs?

Thanks
 
1) Yes, you can leave any drive running 24/7, and they are designed to run like that and last for several years. They can last longer if you don't run them all the time, but it's not like they're a ridiculously expensive item that is too much to replace every 3 to 5 years if it fails (and most of them will last 10 years). Most of them will also go to "sleep" and stop spinning when they're idle, so if you're just backing up to the drive once a day or only copy files a few times a day, then after 15 minutes it will stop spinning to save power and extend the lifespan, and turn back on when you need to copy files again. (Of course if you're copying files to it very often, it won't have a chance to sleep.)

2) There are many external USB enclosures for different disk sizes. A USB dock is an easy one because you don't have to do anything to disassemble it. You just shove the drive into it. Or you can get an enclosure so it looks more like a single unit. Depends on what you want it to look like, as well as how secure you think it would be sitting on your desk or wherever, potentially getting knocked over. In an open dock, the drive could get knocked loose.

Examples (not recommendations, but this is a good brand):
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFLT/dp/B00LS5NFQ2
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Tool-Free-Enclosure-Internal-EC-KSL3/dp/B08J5SLTJX

Note that enclosures designed for a 3.5 inch drive will always come with a power brick that has to be plugged in, as those drives can't be powered by a USB port alone. Even if you only had a 2.5 inch drive in it, it will need the power plugged in.

3) It is usually cheaper to assemble your own, and as you were asking about it, that allows you to swap out just the drive when it's full rather than paying the cost of a pre-built external drive with all the enclosure components every time. That first dock plus an 8TB Seagate drive comes out to about $137 on Amazon right now, whereas the 8TB Seagate External is $150. When you need another drive, you just pay $110 instead of $150. The benefit of buying the pre-built drive of course is that you get tech support and warranty coverage of the whole thing from one company (and that recovery service from Seagate if the drive does fail); not everyone particularly cares about having that single-source warranty/support though.

Another benefit to building your own is you can customize performance. Most pre-built external drives use 5400RPM disks, but you can put a 7200RPM drive into an enclosure to get faster transfer rates. It looks like the 8TB Seagate Expansion STKP8000400 is 7200RPM, though. Or it can go the other way - if transfer rates aren't that important to you, you could get a 5400RPM drive for your enclosure and save a little more money. (The One Touch is a 5400RPM 2.5 inch drive, and even a 5400RPM 3.5 inch drive will be a little faster.)

4) How exactly do you use this? Are you permanently archiving files onto the external drive, then setting it aside and never deleting them? Most backups are only retained for a set period of time (a week or two for consumers) and then the oldest version gets deleted and replaced with a new one. Someone might be able to make other recommendations if they know exactly what you mean by "backup".
 
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1) Yes, you can leave any drive running 24/7, and they are designed to run like that and last for several years. They can last longer if you don't run them all the time, but it's not like they're a ridiculously expensive item that is too much to replace every 3 to 5 years if it fails (and most of them will last 10 years). Most of them will also go to "sleep" and stop spinning when they're idle, so if you're just backing up to the drive once a day or only copy files a few times a day, then after 15 minutes it will stop spinning to save power and extend the lifespan, and turn back on when you need to copy files again. (Of course if you're copying files to it very often, it won't have a chance to sleep.)

2) There are many external USB enclosures for different disk sizes. A USB dock is an easy one because you don't have to do anything to disassemble it. You just shove the drive into it. Or you can get an enclosure so it looks more like a single unit. Depends on what you want it to look like, as well as how secure you think it would be sitting on your desk or wherever, potentially getting knocked over. In an open dock, the drive could get knocked loose.

Examples (not recommendations, but this is a good brand):
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFLT/dp/B00LS5NFQ2
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Tool-Free-Enclosure-Internal-EC-KSL3/dp/B08J5SLTJX

Note that enclosures designed for a 3.5 inch drive will always come with a power brick that has to be plugged in, as those drives can't be powered by a USB port alone. Even if you only had a 2.5 inch drive in it, it will need the power plugged in.

3) It is usually cheaper to assemble your own, and as you were asking about it, that allows you to swap out just the drive when it's full rather than paying the cost of a pre-built external drive with all the enclosure components every time. That first dock plus an 8TB Seagate drive comes out to about $137 on Amazon right now, whereas the 8TB Seagate External is $150. When you need another drive, you just pay $110 instead of $150. The benefit of buying the pre-built drive of course is that you get tech support and warranty coverage of the whole thing from one company (and that recovery service from Seagate if the drive does fail); not everyone particularly cares about having that single-source warranty/support though.

Another benefit to building your own is you can customize performance. Most pre-built external drives use 5400RPM disks, but you can put a 7200RPM drive into an enclosure to get faster transfer rates. It looks like the 8TB Seagate Expansion STKP8000400 is 7200RPM, though. Or it can go the other way - if transfer rates aren't that important to you, you could get a 5400RPM drive for your enclosure and save a little more money. (The One Touch is a 5400RPM 2.5 inch drive, and even a 5400RPM 3.5 inch drive will be a little faster.)

4) How exactly do you use this? Are you permanently archiving files onto the external drive, then setting it aside and never deleting them? Most backups are only retained for a set period of time (a week or two for consumers) and then the oldest version gets deleted and replaced with a new one. Someone might be able to make other recommendations if they know exactly what you mean by "backup".

Thank you for your very helpful reply.

I think a flat enclosure seems more robust than a dock. I will put at the top of my pc tower, flat enclosure seems more stable and protected from knocking or falling. I guess the advantage of dock is lower temperature (top half hard disk exposed) and faster to insert and remove. Correct me if I am wrong.

5. Is your first link https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFLT/dp/B00LS5NFQ2 or third link https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Tool-Free-Enclosure-Internal-EC-KSL3/dp/B08J5SLTJX a better choice for performance and reliability?

6. It looks like the third link does not have a built in fan, is a built in fan necessary for lay flat docking?

7. Is the first link or third link easier to replace hard disk? It seems easy by just remove the hard disk, insert new hard disk and closing the cover? Looks like both seems similar, I am just afraid of breaking the golden metal pins when plug in or unplug the hard disk to the enclosure.

8. If I am using 2.5 inch hard disk inside first link and third link, do I need to connect power adapter?

9. What 3.5 inch hard disk brand and models would you recommend for my needs to put into external USB enclosures?

Currently I do scheduled backup once a day at night, seldom need to access the backup, in my Seagate One Touch External HDD 5TB I have a full backup and daily incremental backup. After the 5TB hard disk is full I will remove it and replace it with another Seagate One Touch External HDD 5TB. Using the external hard disk about 30 minutes daily. I want a bigger TB size so I do not need to replace the hard disk often. I would like to keep as long as possible, sometimes I accidentally deleted or edited text data while typing new data and I saved it without knowing it myself, when I discover it at a later date and I want to undo my error I need to refer to backup done many weeks ago.

Thanks.
 
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Where I live, it's sometimes cheaper to buy a 3.5in USB drive and "shuck" the disk for use inside a PC. Whether or not they're as good as "naked" drives is debatable. USB drives may have a shorter warranty and do you really think WD/Seagate will be able to pull all your important files off a dead USB drive?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarde..._are_shucked_drives_so_much_cheaper_than_the/

I've abandoned 3.5in USB3 drives for backups. During long file transfers, the disks run very hot inside the plastic case which often has poor ventilation. I've seen drive temperatures exceed +55°C. These same disks can run 20°C cooler in a well ventilated PC chassis.

If your only backup is a single permanently connected USB3 drive and disaster strikes (Ransomware, lightning strike, catastrophic PC failure, etc.) you may lose some/all of your files.

Consider keeping at least three copies of all vitally important files, with at least one copy on another machine or drive, not permanently connected to your main PC. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket.

In the past, I've experienced data corruption when using long USB3 cables. Safest option is a short cable connected to the rear panel on the computer.

If you value your data and are prepared to pay a significant premium, consider WD Gold Enterprise Class hard disks. I'm much happier with drives running cool inside a PC and not in a cramped USB case where they might get knocked over and suffer a head crash.
 
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Thank you for your very helpful reply.
5) I'd say the third is likely more secure. The first is meant for quick swapping without being completely open, but if you tried to lay it sideways the door might flop open, or the drive might be dislodged if it were bumped. The third actually has mounting screw points to secure the drive (although the manual doesn't mention them and they aren't required if you want quick-swap capability, and they might not work for a 2.5 inch drive), and then the cover slides on, so you could lay it on its side if you wanted or shake it and the drive wouldn't come loose.

6) Almost no external drives or enclosures have built-in fans and they're really not necessary. None of the ones I linked has a fan, though the first one is a fat casing which is probably just empty space. A cooling fan would be helpful if you were going to have it in a very warm environment like a very warm region with no air conditioning, but even sitting on top of your PC it's not going to be tremendously hot and cause premature failure, and the normal airflow of a room at "room temperature" will be fine.

7) The first one might be very slightly easier simply because it's just a door, but the second is just a cover that slides off, and requires a button to release it so it's more secure. Once the cover is off or the door is open, they both work the same. You tilt the drive upward a bit until it's above the edge of the plastic and then slide it away from the SATA connector. Unless you tilt it up to a very high angle, there's little risk of damage, because the connector inside the enclosure is designed for this.

8) My expectation is that the electronics inside the enclosure are designed to require external power even if you're using a drive that could technically run on USB power. Meaning I don't think the control board is designed to draw its power from the USB port at all, so it wouldn't even turn on if you don't plug in the power brick. I don't have an enclosure like this handy to test with. I wouldn't recommend using a 2.5 inch drive anyway, because you can't get one in 8TB size.

9) Personally I'd get a Western Digital drive over a Seagate, but Seagate is usually a bit cheaper and you were expecting to get one anyway. (Seagate just has a bit worse reputation for reliability.) These two would both be fine. The WD drive would be a little bit faster as it has a higher RPM and the recording technology is faster.

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07H289S7C

Higher performance at 7200RPM costs a good bit more, and you really don't need it for backups.

https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-WD_Black-Performance-Internal/dp/B0D1V1SNDX


So, you're just going to constantly pile up more and more hard drives containing old backups? For how long do you plan to keep them? I get needing to recover older data if you discover a mistake much later but this is an expensive proposition. If you really just need to retain backups that long, just get a larger drive instead of replacing them. Going from 5TB to 8TB isn't a big jump, but there aren't any inexpensive consumer internal drives in the 12TB and up sizes. A 16TB WD USB drive would be more expensive than building it yourself because you can't just swap the drive inside (but it's cheaper than the enterprise and NAS grade 16TB drives), but if you only ever need to buy it once and don't have to replace it, you save money over time. It depends on how many backups you can store in that amount of space and how far back you want to retain the backups.

do you really think WD/Seagate will be able to pull all your important files off a dead USB drive?
It depends on what "dead" means. For the average consumer, shucking the drive isn't something they would be able to do, but if the electronics die but the internal drive is fine, they can just ship it off to WD/Seagate, then the manufacturer can shuck it and copy the data off the drive and send back a new/refurbished unit with their data on it. Even if there is a physical problem with the mechanical drive, recovering data is entirely possible. Depending on the problem, the data may all be fine, or there may be some that got corrupted or lost, but that's better than no recovery at all. There are companies that do nothing except recover data from bad drives and they're very successful.

The 3-2-1 rule for backups is always best, but for the average consumer, it's a solid win to get them to even do ONE type of backup. (And if they're syncing their files to the cloud with OneDrive being turned on automatically, that can count as their "1" offsite so having a USB drive counts as a second method.) Getting complete protection from things like ransomware and other catastrophic issues by having backups that simply can't be accessed is difficult and expensive. Everybody has to work with what they can afford and understand.
 
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Where I live, it's sometimes cheaper to buy a 3.5in USB drive and "shuck" the disk for use inside a PC. Whether or not they're as good as "naked" drives is debatable. USB drives may have a shorter warranty and do you really think WD/Seagate will be able to pull all your important files off a dead USB drive?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarde..._are_shucked_drives_so_much_cheaper_than_the/

I've abandoned 3.5in USB3 drives for backups. During long file transfers, the disks run very hot inside the plastic case which often has poor ventilation. I've seen drive temperatures exceed +55°C. These same disks can run 20°C cooler in a well ventilated PC chassis.

If your only backup is a single permanently connected USB3 drive and disaster strikes (Ransomware, lightning strike, catastrophic PC failure, etc.) you may lose some/all of your files.

Consider keeping at least three copies of all vitally important files, with at least one copy on another machine or drive, not permanently connected to your main PC. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket.

In the past, I've experienced data corruption when using long USB3 cables. Safest option is a short cable connected to the rear panel on the computer.

If you value your data and are prepared to pay a significant premium, consider WD Gold Enterprise Class hard disks. I'm much happier with drives running cool inside a PC and not in a cramped USB case where they might get knocked over and suffer a head crash.

In the past I stored my backup in a 3.5 internal hard disk inside my pc tower, but I read it is better to use an external hard disk to store backup so I store my backup in an external hard disk, I have copied and paste some of the info I read at the end of this post. It seems like an external hard disk is more protected from "disaster strikes (Ransomware, lightning strike, catastrophic PC failure, etc.)". Correct me if I am wrong.

-----text below this line are copied and pasted from what I read-----
"I would personally have an external drive for backup. Here are the reasons why: If the backup drive is internal and the power supply fails in the PC, it can short everything out. I've seen it before where it has fried the motherboard and hard drive (I work in IT). Easily take it elsewhere. For example, you could keep it at work so if anything happens at home (natural disaster, fire, etc.) you still have a backup of the data." "However, if the drive is external (e.g. USB) and it is plugged into a broken port, it can short it out and essentially lose all data on it. This happens a lot with USB flash drives. I haven't seen it with an external hard drive yet." "an electrical event inside the computer is more dangerous to an internal disk. even if your home gets a lightning bolt there is more chance to the external to survive." source https://superuser.com/questions/160703/internal-or-external-drive-for-backup
"For backup purposes, the external drive is preferable, because you want your local backup to be on a separate device that does not share a power supply with the device that is being backed up." source https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/17wgwf5/external_vs_internal_hdd_for_backup_purposes/
-----
 
5) I'd say the third is likely more secure. The first is meant for quick swapping without being completely open, but if you tried to lay it sideways the door might flop open, or the drive might be dislodged if it were bumped. The third actually has mounting screw points to secure the drive (although the manual doesn't mention them and they aren't required if you want quick-swap capability, and they might not work for a 2.5 inch drive), and then the cover slides on, so you could lay it on its side if you wanted or shake it and the drive wouldn't come loose.

6) Almost no external drives or enclosures have built-in fans and they're really not necessary. None of the ones I linked has a fan, though the first one is a fat casing which is probably just empty space. A cooling fan would be helpful if you were going to have it in a very warm environment like a very warm region with no air conditioning, but even sitting on top of your PC it's not going to be tremendously hot and cause premature failure, and the normal airflow of a room at "room temperature" will be fine.

7) The first one might be very slightly easier simply because it's just a door, but the second is just a cover that slides off, and requires a button to release it so it's more secure. Once the cover is off or the door is open, they both work the same. You tilt the drive upward a bit until it's above the edge of the plastic and then slide it away from the SATA connector. Unless you tilt it up to a very high angle, there's little risk of damage, because the connector inside the enclosure is designed for this.

8) My expectation is that the electronics inside the enclosure are designed to require external power even if you're using a drive that could technically run on USB power. Meaning I don't think the control board is designed to draw its power from the USB port at all, so it wouldn't even turn on if you don't plug in the power brick. I don't have an enclosure like this handy to test with. I wouldn't recommend using a 2.5 inch drive anyway, because you can't get one in 8TB size.

9) Personally I'd get a Western Digital drive over a Seagate, but Seagate is usually a bit cheaper and you were expecting to get one anyway. (Seagate just has a bit worse reputation for reliability.) These two would both be fine. The WD drive would be a little bit faster as it has a higher RPM and the recording technology is faster.

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07H289S7C

Higher performance at 7200RPM costs a good bit more, and you really don't need it for backups.

https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-WD_Black-Performance-Internal/dp/B0D1V1SNDX


So, you're just going to constantly pile up more and more hard drives containing old backups? For how long do you plan to keep them? I get needing to recover older data if you discover a mistake much later but this is an expensive proposition. If you really just need to retain backups that long, just get a larger drive instead of replacing them. Going from 5TB to 8TB isn't a big jump, but there aren't any inexpensive consumer internal drives in the 12TB and up sizes. A 16TB WD USB drive would be more expensive than building it yourself because you can't just swap the drive inside (but it's cheaper than the enterprise and NAS grade 16TB drives), but if you only ever need to buy it once and don't have to replace it, you save money over time. It depends on how many backups you can store in that amount of space and how far back you want to retain the backups.


It depends on what "dead" means. For the average consumer, shucking the drive isn't something they would be able to do, but if the electronics die but the internal drive is fine, they can just ship it off to WD/Seagate, then the manufacturer can shuck it and copy the data off the drive and send back a new/refurbished unit with their data on it. Even if there is a physical problem with the mechanical drive, recovering data is entirely possible. Depending on the problem, the data may all be fine, or there may be some that got corrupted or lost, but that's better than no recovery at all. There are companies that do nothing except recover data from bad drives and they're very successful.

The 3-2-1 rule for backups is always best, but for the average consumer, it's a solid win to get them to even do ONE type of backup. (And if they're syncing their files to the cloud with OneDrive being turned on automatically, that can count as their "1" offsite so having a USB drive counts as a second method.) Getting complete protection from things like ransomware and other catastrophic issues by having backups that simply can't be accessed is difficult and expensive. Everybody has to work with what they can afford and understand.

I think I will keep backup about 1 year. I intend to use two external hard disk (A and B), both 8TB (or maybe 12TB), I will use A first then when A is full I will replace it with B, then when B is full I will delete A and replace it with A, then when A is full, I will delete B and replace it with B...and repeat.

"If you really just need to retain backups that long, just get a larger drive instead of replacing them." > My first backup is a full backup e.g. 01 Jan 2020 is first full backup, and then daily incremental backup 02 Jan 2020 is 1st incremental backup, 03 Jan 2020 is 2nd incremental backup...until the disk is full e.g. 31 Dec 2020 then I replace the disk with an empty one and repeat the process e.g. 01 Jan 2021 and redo a first full backup again and daily incremental backup the next day 02 Jan 2021 onwards. If I only have 1 larger drive, I will not be able to have many weeks of backup if I just deleted the old backup e.g. disk is full on 31 Dec 2020 and I delete the whole disk then on 01 Jan 2021 and redo first full backup again and daily incremental backup the next day onwards, if on 01 Feb 2021 I want to refer to a backup done 3 months ago (backup done on Nov 2020) , I am unable to do so because the backup has been deleted.

"A 16TB WD USB drive would be more expensive than building it yourself because you can't just swap the drive inside (but it's cheaper than the enterprise and NAS grade 16TB drives), but if you only ever need to buy it once and don't have to replace it, you save money over time. " > Can you explain in detail, I do not understand. What is the "16TB WD USB drive" name, is it the Western Digital Elements Desktop External Hard Drive? Why I cannot buy Sabrent enclosure and insert a 3.5 inch WD hard disk? Do you mean buy 16TB Western Digital Elements Desktop External Hard Drive once and don't have to replace it will save money, I thought buying a Sabrent enclosure and insert a 3.5 inch WD hard disk would save more money?

Is this WD Elements Desktop similar to the Seagate Expansion, both are 3.5 inch external hard disk? > Western Digital 8TB Elements Desktop External Hard Drive, USB 3.0 external hard drive for plug-and-play storage - Western DigitalBWLG0080HBK-NESN, Black https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Desktop-Drive-Compatible-WDBWLG0180HBK-NESN/dp/B07D5V2ZXD/ref=sr_1_1

Is there a good guide on 3-2-1 rule that I can follow?

Thanks
 
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I saw this: "RefuseAmazing3422 1y ago Use internal drives with a dock and store cold. Saves the hassle of dealing with a bunch of cases and power adapters. For fully on backup all the time use a versioned backup like time machine or a cloud service." source https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/17wgwf5/external_vs_internal_hdd_for_backup_purposes/

What does this person mean?
"internal drives with a dock" I thought a dock needs a power adapter?
"store cold" meaning?
What "cloud service" is good?
 

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