Father of Linux Linus Torvalds Becomes US Citizen

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th_at

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He's right.

Political discourse in America is polarized and polemic without parallel in the free world. I never saw this as a result of the election system, but maybe he's right there too.
 

figgus

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What really does this is the bi-party system, and the main 2 parties have ZERO interest in seeing it changed.

With all the fools voting for the party and not the candidate, I usually have the opinion that the political parties are a bad idea.
 

jsrudd

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The electoral college had its day, but we live in the day and age where computers can account for every vote.
The electoral college isn't just about ease of counting. It also a counter majoritarian device that is meant to ameliorate the effects of our winner take all system.
 

cronik93

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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Err, either a white President or a black President?[/citation]

The fact that you bring up something like that is sad.
 

stratplaya

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Well Linus, that system seems to have something to it. It's helped make us the most awesome country to ever exist, and you know it. Else you wouldn't be here.

 

apoq

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[citation][nom]stratplaya[/nom]Well Linus, that system seems to have something to it. It's helped make us the most awesome country to ever exist, and you know it. Else you wouldn't be here.[/citation]
Oh man, where do you get off saying that? There's no greatest country in the world, and even if it were, I'm not sure what your metric for deciding the awesomeness of a country is. Now don't get all pissy and start shooting your gun in the back yard just to show everybody how free your country is.
 

Marco925

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[citation][nom]stratplaya[/nom]Well Linus, that system seems to have something to it. It's helped make us the most awesome country to ever exist, and you know it. Else you wouldn't be here.[/citation]
It might also be the downfall as well, Can't even pass laws with a majority vote, it has to be 60 seats to pass a law effectively without the opposition saying No to everything?
 

Humans think

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The winner takes it all system is not necessarily a bad thing. In older times it gave the authority to the governments and legislator bodies to make bold moves without procrastinating, it is particularly useful when at war or serious reforms are needed. It empowers the government to be sturdy and immune to small turbulences in the political world.

BUT like a knife it can be used for good and evil. Costly campaigns enslave the political parties to corporations and lobbies which finally leads to convergent evolution of the 2 parties to one about the same party that serves the same interests and big corporations, leaving no real option for the voter, rendering everything in an illusion. Corruption is what destroyed the system and even though they have the power to pass regulations for improving the life of the people they tend to do the opposite...

The political system in Finland is a more mature system but it is based on the pillars of peace, prosperity, minor influence from religious parties and a vast majority of educated voters. It is evident that this system is difficult to implement in US.
 

back_by_demand

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[citation][nom]cronik93[/nom]The fact that you bring up something like that is sad.[/citation]
Hey, it's your voting system, don't blame me. Over in Iraq and Afghanistan when you are helping to create a foundation of Democracy they ask if just copying the American model will be OK and they say, "Hell no, our system is massively flawed!".

Supposedly it is easier to create a system of democracy from scratch in a war-torn coutry that it is to modify an existing one in the USA.

THAT is sad.
 

Marco925

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[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Couldn't you find a better picture than "Fat guy in Speedos"I trying to eat here![/citation]
That's Actually Linus
 

MisterJohnnyT

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We are free to do what we are TOLD to do, and that's about it. Calling america(lower case "a" intentional) "free" is a disgusting distortion of the word.
 

back_by_demand

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[citation][nom]Humans think[/nom]In older times it gave the authority to the governments and legislator bodies to make bold moves without procrastinating, it is particularly useful when at war or serious reforms are needed[/citation]
Hence Bush using 9/11 as an excuse to force through the Patriot Act, a piece of legislation that the Founding Fathers are currently turning in their graves over.
Also, seeing as the US has had troops involved, hence in a state of war, pretty much constantly since 1941 the excuse of no changes being made during a time of war seems to be artificially perpetuated.

Maybe you should adopt the Democracy system used in India or Australia
 

unrealpinky

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There is nothing wrong with the system in the US. The problem lies with the citizens by not going out and voting. You cannot institute change, either in policy or party "dualopoly", with only 18%, on average, voter turnout. There are plenty of parties to choose from and numerous opportunities to make changes during primaries, House, Senate, and Presidential elections. Bottom-line, get out and vote and when you see 80%+ voter turnout, then you will see real change. You have no excuse if you are citizen and kudos to Linus for realizing this and taking the steps to making it happen.
 

Parrdacc

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[citation][nom]apoq[/nom]Oh man, where do you get off saying that? There's no greatest country in the world, and even if it were, I'm not sure what your metric for deciding the awesomeness of a country is. Now don't get all pissy and start shooting your gun in the back yard just to show everybody how free your country is.[/citation]

And what's wrong with that?:) We're not the only country that has a tradition of shooting off guns in the back yard and its done mostly has celebration then being "pissy". As a matter of fact that sounds like a fine idea, got the ammo be back in minute:) :)

[citation][nom]unrealpinky[/nom]There is nothing wrong with the system in the US. The problem lies with the citizens by not going out and voting. You cannot institute change, either in policy or party "dualopoly", with only 18%, on average, voter turnout. There are plenty of parties to choose from and numerous opportunities to make changes during primaries, House, Senate, and Presidential elections. Bottom-line, get out and vote and when you see 80%+ voter turnout, then you will see real change. You have no excuse if you are citizen and kudos to Linus for realizing this make taking the steps to making it happen.[/citation]

Got that right. America has the worst voter turn out I have ever seen. I have been to a lot of Caribbean countries and have seen 90% or higher voter turn outs from these little islands and then to look at my America turn outs, wow I feel sad. I vote every chance I get, which more would do the same. Exercise your right to vote people!
 

back_by_demand

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[citation][nom]unrealpinky[/nom]There is nothing wrong with the system in the US. The problem lies with the citizens by not going out and voting. You cannot institute change, either in policy or party "dualopoly", with only 18%, on average, voter turnout. There are plenty of parties to choose from and numerous opportunities to make changes during primaries, House, Senate, and Presidential elections. Bottom-line, get out and vote and when you see 80%+ voter turnout, then you will see real change. You have no excuse if you are citizen and kudos to Linus for realizing this and taking the steps to making it happen.[/citation]
So if its so good, how come you are telling other emerging Demoracies not to use your system because it is awful?
 

back_by_demand

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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]So if its so good, how come you are telling other emerging Demoracies not to use your system because it is awful?[/citation]
There's no point in thumbing down, it's not going to stop it being any less true.
As a true American you should try to uphold the ideals of the founding fathers and the constitution.
NOT a system that exists only to keep one of two parties in permanent power.
There is a differance between the the country and the way it is run and until you realise that you will be a slave to a self-interest bi-partisan system that is essentially corrupt.
 

unrealpinky

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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]There's no point in thumbing down, it's not going to stop it being any less true.As a true American you should try to uphold the ideals of the founding fathers and the constitution.NOT a system that exists only to keep one of two parties in permanent power.There is a differance between the the country and the way it is run and until you realise that you will be a slave to a self-interest bi-partisan system that is essentially corrupt.[/citation]
What exactly is this "system" you are referring to? There is nothing within the US constitution that prevents change either in voting procedures or operations/powers of the different branches of government. The founding fathers, in their wisdom, realized the need for flexibility and change, but only if a large majority (2/3) desired it. So, if our "system" is so broke, as you put it, then the US has only it's citizens to blame. By voting, they can institute change, but only if a large majority of it's citizens come out and vote.

So rather than bash the system, you need to encourage more involvement in order to make it better.
 

back_by_demand

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[citation][nom]unrealpinky[/nom]What exactly is this "system" you are referring to? There is nothing within the US constitution that prevents change either in voting procedures or operations/powers of the different branches of government. The founding fathers, in their wisdom, realized the need for flexibility and change, but only if a large majority (2/3) desired it. So, if our "system" is so broke, as you put it, then the US has only it's citizens to blame. By voting, they can institute change, but only if a large majority of it's citizens come out and vote. So rather than bash the system, you need to encourage more involvement in order to make it better.[/citation]
[citation][nom]Zingam[/nom]The biggest that someone can believe in, is that one can force another tribe to build and live in democracy. The attempts to build democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan will utterly fail! Even worse they'll loose their faith in democracy forever.[/citation]
So on one hand you say the only people that can change things are the people, but the people have been bashed into such apathy as the GOP and the DNC practically force votes to go one way or the other so that an independant who is motivated to actually do something will get nowhere.
So the method of "democracy" isn't voting for the person you actually want, it is voting for system.
The people who have losing their faith in Democracy forever are the American public and the reducing turnout every 4 years is proof that people think their vote doesn't matter.

In the end, the choice was McCain or Obama, both of which are so bland and have essentially been sterilised of any ability to perform actual change becuase their espective parties - the DNC and the GOP - had they suspected they would do anything to change the bi-partisan system would have not selected them in the first place.
 

wotan31

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[citation][nom]th_at[/nom]He's right.Political discourse in America is polarized and polemic without parallel in the free world. I never saw this as a result of the election system, but maybe he's right there too.[/citation]
Wrong. The two-party system is the very reason we have such stability here in the US. Other countries like Israel and Lebanon have literally dozens of political parties. Voting there is a disaster, because each of these parties represents only the special interests of a very small group. The two-party US system forces each party to try and appeal to at least 50% of the population. This keeps out all the weirdo's and nut-jobs with extremist views, and forces the candidates from both sides, to not deviate too far from center.
 

scook9

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It is funny that George Washington 250 years ago knew that political parties were monsters that needed to be avoided at all costs.....and here we are!
 
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