First Build - Obvious Mistakes?

[mrmarkb]

Hello! First time builder here, looking for any quick advice or critique on my build. My budget is $2,400US and I'm interested in ATI's Eyefinity technology for production and gaming. I own and operate a 3 man graphic design company and have always relied on Apple products for our hardware. We'd like to make the switch to Windows 7 and enjoy a bit of gaming on the side. Please let me know if there are any gaping holes in my build, and also if you spot any incompatible parts. Also, if you have any critique of the parts chosen, I am open to all suggestions. Thank you and have a good one!

Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz
ASUS Rampage III Gene LGA
G.Skill Ripjaw Series 8GB DDR3 1333
ASUS ROG Matrix Radeon 5870 2GB
Intel X25-V SSD 40GB
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional
Cooler Master HAF 932
Cooler Master Silent Pro 850w

Monitors:
2x ASUS VW246H 24"
Note: I have a 24" Apple Cinema Display HD that I plan to use as the main (center) monitor in this 3x1 setup.

 

[mrmarkb]

Pcworm,

Thanks for the input. From what I've read you're 100% correct: GTX 460 in SLI allow for 3 monitor display (and most tests/sites show the SLI setup coming in way over the single Radeon 5870 2GB). I'm definitely sold on this notion, so kudos to all who've routed for the GTX!

In terms of enhancing CS5 performance, I am yet to find any clear evidence that the GTX 460 SLI will do more than any other card. I think it may be necessary to alter some code to persuade the system to utilize CUDA (nothing I've read sounds particularly stable or convincing). You mention that you have experience with CUDA, care to weigh in on this subject?

In any case, I appreciate your advice!

Take care!

 

[mrmarkb]

Textbldr,

Great links, great information. I did a little digging and found the same information regarding simple hacks to utilize CUDA on GTX 460 SLI. Don't know if I am sold on that concept yet. Hopefully someone can shed some light on the effectiveness of that hack and the performance gains a person stands to see with CS5.

I will be sure to research memory compatibility with whichever motherboard I go with but as was suggested I'm no longer using the mATX board I originally listed. I've not made up my mind by any length but I can now considering the ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131386

I've also made the switch to the 850w Corsair PSU. Great suggestion on that!

Many thanks for contributing!

 

[pcworm]

I know CS5 utilizing cuda on a 460 needs a little hack, but as far as I've read, cuda acceleration is already enabled on older cards like 9800GT
the reason seems to be that 460 was not available at the time of release for CS5 and developers chose to support only current and older cards
(imagine always utilizing cuda if a cuda capable GPU is available, and someone runs it on a system with an X6 and an NVidia on-board 8150/8200.. )
even if than small hack doesn't work, you still have CUDA for other programs that use it, and also,I'm pretty sure that cards like 460 will be supported in a future release/update/patch of CS5

 

[Somebody_007]

I think the 460 works with CUDA. The cards listed on the nvidia websites are the once tested by adobe I presume. All others should work aswell. As it says above nvidia geforce and quadro GPUs are designed to boost performance... As in ALL geforce GPUs. I could be wrong but I think it's just like with the memory combatibility list the only ones you'll find on that list are the ones the mobo manufacturers got for free to test.

As for wether CS5 works with SLI. I don't use CS5 myself so I don't know all that m uch about it. It could be that it doesn't. But from what I understand CS5 isn't all that GPU intensive and should work great even if CS5 doesn't support SLI.

As for the gaming on 3 screens with nvida here is all you ever need to know on a single page

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-requirements-surround-technology.html

Bassically it's the same as eyefinity but then a little less extensive(less ridiculous if you ask me) as in you need sli and can only game on 3 screens, not 6, 12, 24 like with ati but Then I don't think that was on your mind lol. And since 460 sli is by far the best bang for buck on the market sli isn't really an issue for you either.

Then the mobo. I would get the ga-x58a-ud3r

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423&Tpk=ga-x58a-ud3r

or the asus p6x58d-e

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423&Tpk=ga-x58a-ud3r

those are the best low end sata3/usb3 boards IMO. You can get an older board like the one you mentioned but it's simply worse overall and lacks sata3/usb3. And that will become needed quite soon I think. SSDs already benefit greatly form sata3. And externals from usb3. Just a matter of months before it starts getting mainstream.

 

[texbldr]

I think somebody_007 meant to give this link for the Asus board:

ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 Intel X58

I think it is a little better than the ASUS P6T SE and is $45 more. The P6X has 16 phase power which should enhance overclocking and provide greater stability. It also has 6 gig SATA throughput and USB 3.0 ; not bad to have if you want to future-proof your PC as they are the next steps in technology.

Adobe CS was very CPU dependent, but is moving towards utilizing the GPU more. So, GPU appears to be becoming more important with CS5.

I wish nVidia was not the only game in town. ATI Radeons have come a long way, especially for gaming. For now, Adobe CS works better with nVidia. This would be especially true if you use something like:

Adobe Mercury Playback Engine

As you may note, it is GPU accelerated.

Also, you may want to get Windows Professional 64 bit version; that seems to be the standard with Adobe folks. Get the cheaper OEM version.

 

[mrmarkb]

Somebody_00,

Again, thanks for the information. Great suggestion on the motherboards, looks like I'll be going with the ASUS P6X58D you suggested... a little extra dough for a nicer motherboard. I'm now double checking that it will comfortably fit the SLI configuration GTX 460's (I've heard of some wives' tales of boards not accommodating this setup).

CUDA with the GTX 460 is still up in the air. I've seen a few hacks but I would much prefer that Adobe releases support for new nvidia cards!

 

[mrmarkb]

Textbldr,

I think you're right on the ASUS link, thanks for the correction (and the board of choice at the moment).

Thanks for your information on nvidia vs ati with regards to CS5, pretty much in line with everything else I've come across.

Cheers!

 

[Somebody_007]

IMO who really cares about the CUDA thing even without CUDA 460 sli destroys any competition. And it shouldn't be too long before CUDA is enable if not already. Keep in mind 460s are the extremely popular cards and CS5 is also extremely popular it won't be long before they'll work together.

And if I'm correct Nvidia makes those drivers, I could be wrong though, but NVidia has a well deserved reputation of making good drivers.

And yeah sorry for the link problem.

As for the case I would get the all red interior silverstone ft02

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163165&cm_re=ft02-_-11-163-165-_-Product

Sure it's expensive at 260 but the cooling performance is mind boggling. It's first of all mid tower which is much more practical full towers are just to large IMO. And it beats the haf x by 6 degrees in cpu temp!!! That is down right amazing. It also looks much better than the haf series or any other decent performer(still not as good as the ft02 though) for that matter. The build quility is apperently amazing aswell.

All I can say is it is worth every peny over the haf 932 and definately the haf x.

here's a review btw

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2010/08/12/silverstone-ft02r-w-review/3

 

[Somebody_007]

I think you have all the info you need. It's up to you now to put together a system.

any more questions?

care to post the final build?

 

[mrmarkb]

Someboduy_007,

I feel like I've gained more than enough perspective from this helpful bunch of folks. Thanks to everyone who has participated, including yourself.

Case choice has been tough and I'm still undecided. The Silverstone you posted is an amazing case but I'm still trying to make the budget for this machine work out! I'm shooting for $2,400US (which is what I would spend on an Apple if I weren't to make the switch).

Amended build list incoming! Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again, cheers!

 

[mrmarkb]

Amended Build List @ a total of $2,439.86 (not including shipping/tax or rebates/combo deals)

Tower:
SILVERSTONE RAVEN RV02-BW Matte black 0.8mm Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case ... $159.99
Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930 ... $289.99
ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard ... $239.99
G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ... $149.99
GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card ... $229.99
GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card ... $229.99
Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive ... $214.99
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive ... $94.99
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive ... $94.99
LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM ... $24.99
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply $129.99

OS:
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM ... $139.99

Displays:
ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor ... $219.99
ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor ... $219.99
24" Apple Cinema Display HD (my current display - intended to be the center monitor in a 3x1 landscape setup) ... $0.00

Not Yet Considered (oops):
Keyboard (just needs to work well; not that particular)
Mouse (I'll be reusing my Wacom Tablet, Mouse + Pen)
Display adapters (if necessary for nvidia surround)
Maybe some other things (fill me in!)

Other:
Help from the Toms Hardware Forums ... Priceless

 

[Somebody_007]

Looks good overall.

Just a few questions

why do you need 2 1tb blacks?

Is your cinema display 1080p?

Do you have speakers or a headset?

I would look for monitors without speakers because they are absolutely crap and it makes your screen thicker and more expensive.

I have this one it rocks in every way but I don't know wether you can get it in the US

http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-America-G2410HD-24-Inch-Wide/dp/B00261FP88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1281953466&sr=8-1


as for the keyboard razer lycosa, sidewinder x6(own and love it ) and the g15 are all great. I'm a fan of the alienware tactx.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Gaming_Keyboards/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=330-6214


If your apple display has dvi you don't need any adapters

 

[mrmarkb]

Somebody_00,

Good questions!

Truth is I don't need that much storage at this juncture. I'm going to remove one of those hard drives to cut a bit of cost (easy to upgrade in the future if I find I need more space).

I have speakers already, forgot to mention that one.

I don't care much for built in speakers either. Unfortunately, these monitors are the best I can find for 24" displays (for less than $250 each). Know of any I don't?

Thanks for the suggestion on the keyboard, not a bad choice at all.

 

[Somebody_007]

well yeah I think the problem with the monitors is you need 24inch dead right? to match your cinema display. And Most are 23.6.

So yeah I think the asus you picked will be the way to go.

So I think you're good to go

Hope you enjoy

 

[mrmarkb]

One quick question: Do you guys think stock fans / cooling systems will be enough to this thing out of the red?

Also, I've heard the vertical configuration for motherboard / cards in this case can make it tough to fit an SLI setup. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Somebody_007]

Well if you don't plan on any heavy OCs the stock cooling will do fine. Maybe for low noise you could replace the stock intel cooler as it's loud. If you plan on OCing the cpu I reccomend getting an aftermarket cooler.

Also I reccomend getting these 460s to keep in line with the general airflow of the sysytem. And considering hot air moves up it's even more efficient in a case like this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130567&cm_re=460_EE-_-14-130-567-_-Product

Here is a reviwe where they fit an sli setup in the case so should be no problem

http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/reviews/reviews/silverstone-raven-rv02-gets-reviewed

 

[texbldr]

I like the concepts embodied in the Raven. I do not know much about it, though.

You could try a new thread with your questions in Tom's case section or the case section of Overclock.net, which has a very active discussion of cases.

If you overclocked the CPU, you would need either an air or water cooler. Air coolers tend to be tall heat sinks and require wide cases. Corsair has made water cooling easy with two sealed units, the H50 and H70, but there must be adequate space to mount their radiators. I am not sure how either cooling option would work in Raven.

 

[Somebody_007]

sadly the h70 wouldn't work in the raven because their is no rear exhaust. You could possibly mount it on the top exhaust but then you'd have to take off the top cover and that would leave you with an ugly abomination which we wouldn't want lol.

The h50 could work but I'm no fan of putting a bulky radiator to black the only exhaust fan so I'd stick with air cooling here.

 

[mrmarkb]

Somebody_00 & Texbldr,

Thanks again for contributing.

I think I'll stick with the Raven and since I don't plan any initial OC'ing, I'm going to trust the stock cooling of this system (the Raven gets high marks for air cooling as far as I can tell). I might later try to fit a custom cooling kit in there, once I diagnose the spacing situation in person.

In terms of which GTX 460 to go with, I think I want to stick with the Gigabyte I have listed. Nominally cheaper, and apparently quieter and better stock cooled, I think it's the one for me at the moment. Aside from the factory OC on the EVGA you suggested, are there any other advantages to consider?

Thanks and have a good one!

 

[Somebody_007]

well the evga has an external exhaust system meaning it pushes the warm air out of the case instead of just out of the GPU and into the case. This decreases case temps by a few degrees and two more considering you'll have 2. This raises CPU temps by a bit limiting OC capability.

Also your case has a strange configuration which messes up the entire airflow if you don't go with a an external exhaust system. Increasing case temp even more than mentioned above.

This system is less efficient however and has slightly higher GPU temps(few degrees) but seeing as you are far more likely to OC the CPU it's more than a worthy compromise. Also because your case has the 90degree rotation the external exhaust system is aided even more by the fact that hot air moves up helping the case airflow.

Your call, but in my mind it's a no-brainer.

 

[texbldr]

I just saw this in the case section of Overclock.net:

PS The RV02 is only $139.99 AR over at Amazon right now.

RV02 deal

With rebate and free shipping that looks like it beats the Egg by $35.

 

[ricno]

As there is still some case suggestions I might also throw one in too..

I really like the Antec P183. It is very well constructed, has plenty of room and looks very good. That will of course depend of personal taste, but many cases looks a bit lite a spaceship which might or might not suit everyone.

Here is the Antec:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061&Tpk=antec%20p183

At newegg for $154.

 

[Bigchris6]

Another case suggestion im going to throw out there is the NZXT Tempest EVO for $90

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5569252&CatId=1509

Im using this case for my first build also and have to say it made my first Build extremely easy and fun. There's a total of 6 fans 120mm x4 and 140mm x2 for maximum airflow and are extremely quiet. Power supply mounts on bottom for lower CPU temps. Tons of room in the case along with access for cable management behind the motherboard which is one of the reasons I bought the case. I currently have 1 gtx 460 installed with plenty of room to spare. I love this case and highly recommend it but its all in the users preference.
Hope this helped and good luck with your build.

 

[1000FPS]

Thats a good system but if you are going to use eyefinity, I would suggest crossfire with two cards for better FPS

 

[haydentf]

Currently amd can only dream of having a cpu to match the 930 in gaming performance so IMO stick with it.

Now Nvidia and ATI are neck at neck if you don't care about physx, CUDA and 3D. But then you do care about CUDA. So Nvidia has the edge in this build. IMO get 460gtx sli. It'll make minced meat of your 5870. I mean it'll really destroy it.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-review/1

read through that review(it's about the 0.7gb 460 you can get the 1gb version aswell and get a respectable performance boost.) Keep in mind your 5870 is more expensive than 460 sli and it doesn't even come close to performing like it.

And then there's CUDA which will accelerate CS5 which I assume matters to you. Nothing ATI has will improve CS5 over nvidia.

also you can game on 3 screens with nvidia since a few months ago.

All in all 460sli will give you far far more for less. It's a little less upgradeable at stock. But 3 1gb overclocked 460s will beat 3 overclocked 5870s. So really it's a no-brainer.

I know more for less sounds to good to be true but 460s are the best bang for buck on the market by miles ask any self respcting geek .

as for the case I can give you plenty around the 200 margin. And I'd gladly pay 50 dollars more for looks(you also get better quality as a bonus )

Good cases with OK looks for an OK price

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133086&cm_re=thermaltake_element_g-_-11-133-086-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058&cm_re=antec_900-_-11-129-058-_-Product

better cases with better looks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138&cm_re=cooler_master_cosmos-_-11-119-138-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043&cm_re=antec_1200-_-11-129-043-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119187

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112240&Tpk=lian%20li%20pc-p50

and the ultimate

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112244&cm_re=lian_li_pc_a71f-_-11-112-244-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163162&cm_re=silverstone_ft02-_-11-163-162-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163165&cm_re=ft02-_-11-163-165-_-Product

All of these cases are good any will satisfy your needs. The last silverstone has the best airflow of any case I can think of. Beats the former champions by a few degrees(cpu temp). Which is quite significant. That's the difference between a 40dollar cpu cooler and 80/90 dollar one.

IMO get the one you like the looks of in the end you'll be staring at it for quite a whil anyways.

3 - 460's in SLI beating 3 - 5870's in CrossFire???????? Not to be argumentative but you need to do some more research, or better yet compare two similar systems with the two different graphic card configurations! I have two 5870's in CrossFire and Adobe CS5 Master Suite with windows 7 x64. My Premiere and After Effects (the two main programs that take advantage of Cuda) rendering times are extremely similar to a comparable system with Fermi 480's in SLI (real system, real time; a professional friends system) .