[SOLVED] First build with Ryzen 3600/3600X (help)

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
I've never really understood why they make a BIOS need a CPU to operate.
The BIOS is just an SPI NVRAM memory chip containing the instructions the CPU needs to start up, it cannot do anything on its own. Boards that can update BIOS without a CPU installed have a micro-controller with its own on-chip firmware and some hardware to hijack a USB port to read a BIOS image from and flash it.

CPUs need a BIOS to boot because due to the very finicky nature of modern high-speed signaling, modern CPUs have tons of setup registers that need to be configured with board-specific values determined by the motherboard manufacturer on a board+CPU+DIMM specific basis. When the hardware configuration doesn't match anything the BIOS is programmed for, you either get no-boot or the BIOS iterating through multiple possible configurations trying to find one that works and you see the board looking like it is "boot-looping" until it finds a usable combination or gives up.
 
Hi there.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/QXPGKB

I did this build with some pc parts I have and some that I would buy.

I am on a budget so I wanted to know if this build would support the R3600 or R 3600X.
Probably changing the MoBo to the Asus Prime 450m-a/csm.

Feel free to give me any recommendations or advice.
Yes, it will except you will most likely have to update BIOS, MBs with compatible BIOS will not be out for some time.
 
I was thinking in terms of the power delivery aspect. As long as the motherboard has good VRMs for the power delivery it'll be fine.

As for the next couple of years... I'd like to think it'll be fine too. Hopefully we'll see more developers taking advantage of a higher core/thread CPU which Ryzen 5 series and up have.
 
Reactions: redbioniclem

rigg42

Commendable
Oct 17, 2018
639
233
1,390
33
The Tomahawk has a bios flash button so you don't need a CPU to update. You should be good there. Just follow the instructions in the manual. You basically just plug the mobo into the PSU , stick a USB stick with the update file into the proper port, press the update button, and let it do its thing. The tomahawk also has pretty good power delivery and heatsinks. This doesn't matter much on an 6 core but would come in handy if you want to upgrade to an 8 core eventually.

I would try to go for some B-Die if you can stretch the RAM budget up a bit.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/wX7CmG/gskill-flare-x-series-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c14d-16gfx

I'd also go for a different PSU. The corsair CXM 650 is a good unit in this price range. Corsair offers good deals on factory refurb units as well. I picked up one of these recently:

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Certified-Refurbished/Power-Supplies/RMx-Series/p/CP-9020178-NA/RF

You will also want a better cooler. I've built a lot of Ryzen systems. The stealth is not a very good cooler. The spire isn't bad but will likely be inadequate for the 3600x. It certainly is inadequate for the 2600x on stock boost. Your CPU boost performance is directly tied to your cooling. Obviously if you want to OC you will need a better cooler as well. The best value proposition is likely to be the 3600 manually overclocked with a $30-$40 Tower air cooler. This should easily outperform the 3600x on the spire for less money. This is somewhat of an assumption based on the previous Ryzen 5 CPU's but I'm fairly confident this will carry over to the new CPU's. Even if you don't want to manually OC, and decide the X chip is the route you want to take, a better cooler should give you considerably higher boost performance.

I'm assuming you'll be running lower quality graphics settings to boost frame rates. The 1060 will be a limited at high and ultra 1080p in most games and you'd get pretty much the same performance with an older Ryzen CPU.
 
Jul 3, 2019
27
1
35
0
The Tomahawk has a bios flash button so you don't need a CPU to update. You should be good there. Just follow the instructions in the manual. You basically just plug the mobo into the PSU , stick a USB stick with the update file into the proper port, press the update button, and let it do its thing. The tomahawk also has pretty good power delivery and heatsinks. This doesn't matter much on an 6 core but would come in handy if you want to upgrade to an 8 core eventually.

I would try to go for some B-Die if you can stretch the RAM budget up a bit.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/wX7CmG/gskill-flare-x-series-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c14d-16gfx

I'd also go for a different PSU. The corsair CXM 650 is a good unit in this price range. Corsair offers good deals on factory refurb units as well. I picked up one of these recently:

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Certified-Refurbished/Power-Supplies/RMx-Series/p/CP-9020178-NA/RF

You will also want a better cooler. I've built a lot of Ryzen systems. The stealth is not a very good cooler. The spire isn't bad but will likely be inadequate for the 3600x. It certainly is inadequate for the 2600x on stock boost. Your CPU boost performance is directly tied to your cooling. Obviously if you want to OC you will need a better cooler as well. The best value proposition is likely to be the 3600 manually overclocked with a $30-$40 Tower air cooler. This should easily outperform the 3600x on the spire for less money. This is somewhat of an assumption based on the previous Ryzen 5 CPU's but I'm fairly confident this will carry over to the new CPU's. Even if you don't want to manually OC, and decide the X chip is the route you want to take, a better cooler should give you considerably higher boost performance.

I'm assuming you'll be running lower quality graphics settings to boost frame rates. The 1060 will be a limited at high and ultra 1080p in most games and you'd get pretty much the same performance with an older Ryzen CPU.
Thank you for the answer but I am already exceeding my budget a bit with this build, still, do you think the build is good enough for the 3600 on stock cooler and thermal paste with or without overclock? Or should I buy the 2600.

I am planning on upgrading the pc in some time.
 

rigg42

Commendable
Oct 17, 2018
639
233
1,390
33
Thank you for the answer but I am already exceeding my budget a bit with this build, still, do you think the build is good enough for the 3600 on stock cooler and thermal paste with or without overclock? Or should I buy the 2600.

I am planning on upgrading the pc in some time.
What can you get a 1600 for? Are you in the US? Micro Center near by? Those CPU's are $80 at MC. They will do just as well with a 1060 at 1080p high/ultra as a 2600 or 3600 with a bit of tweaking. It comes with a spire cooler. that will get it really close to 2600 and it's stealth cooler with proper setup. The 3600 should be better than both but you won't see much improvement with a 1060 unless you run with low-medium quality settings. That RAM upgrade I suggested might be a good idea since they quit making those memory chips. The lower latency could give you a significant FPS boost. There isn't currently a better memory chip available. When supply dries up those kits might demand a premium. They also might come out with something better. I doubt that will happen with DD4 though. Either way go with a better PSU. In general EVGA is solid but that particular PSU isn't well regarded. You're in a bit of chicken and egg situation currently. You can either buy components that match what you currently have or spend money now on stuff that will benefit you down the road.

You could buy a cheap b450, R5 1600, CL16 3200 RAM, a mediocre PSU now that match your other components and flip that entire system when you feel the need to upgrade. You could also save another $100 and buy a good PSU, B-Die Ram, and a 3600 now and upgrade the GPU, Storage, and cooler when you are ready.
 
Jul 3, 2019
27
1
35
0
What can you get a 1600 for? Are you in the US? Micro Center near by? Those CPU's are $80 at MC. They will do just as well with a 1060 at 1080p high/ultra as a 2600 or 3600 with a bit of tweaking. It comes with a spire cooler. that will get it really close to 2600 and it's stealth cooler with proper setup. The 3600 should be better than both but you won't see much improvement with a 1060 unless you run with low-medium quality settings. That RAM upgrade I suggested might be a good idea since they quit making those memory chips. The lower latency could give you a significant FPS boost. There isn't currently a better memory chip available. When supply dries up those kits might demand a premium. They also might come out with something better. I doubt that will happen with DD4 though. Either way go with a better PSU. In general EVGA is solid but that particular PSU isn't well regarded. You're in a bit of chicken and egg situation currently. You can either buy components that match what you currently have or spend money now on stuff that will benefit you down the road.

You could buy a cheap b450, R5 1600, CL16 3200 RAM, a mediocre PSU now that match your other components and flip that entire system when you feel the need to upgrade. You could also save another $100 and buy a good PSU, B-Die Ram, and a 3600 now and upgrade the GPU, Storage, and cooler when you are ready.
I am thinking about buying the corsair cxm 650 80+ bronze because of what you said.

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Bronze-Certified-Modular-CP-9020103-NA/dp/B01B72W1VA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?

Do you think that buying this PSU with the ryzen 5 3600 , then upgrade the ram for a B-Die as soon as possible.
And after that, work on upgrading the GPU, storage and cooler sounds like a good plan ?

I'm in the US but I am trying to figure out what should I buy, as I said, its my first build.
I supposed that the 3600 was way better than the 1600 and 2600. (that´s why I am waiting for the 3600, thinking I will be fine for the next year or so.)
I was going with the EVGA 650 B3 or BQ because a friend told me that it was a great brand.
I am also buying almost everything from amazon.
 
Of course it's better, but you are the one on the budget.
Would you notice the difference between a 2600 and 3600?
Also, you need to buy an x570 motherboard to get full benefits from the new architecture, have you budgeted for a $200-250 motherboard?
 

rigg42

Commendable
Oct 17, 2018
639
233
1,390
33
I am thinking about buying the corsair cxm 650 80+ bronze because of what you said.

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Bronze-Certified-Modular-CP-9020103-NA/dp/B01B72W1VA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?

Do you think that buying this PSU with the ryzen 5 3600 , then upgrade the ram for a B-Die as soon as possible.
And after that, work on upgrading the GPU, storage and cooler sounds like a good plan ?

I'm in the US but I am trying to figure out what should I buy, as I said, its my first build.
I supposed that the 3600 was way better than the 1600 and 2600. (that´s why I am waiting for the 3600, thinking I will be fine for the next year or so.)
I was going with the EVGA 650 B3 or BQ because a friend told me that it was a great brand.
I am also buying almost everything from amazon.
The 3600 is likely to be significantly faster than the previous ryzen 5. We don’t know 100% because it’s not out yet and we don’t have independent benchmarks. What I’m trying to explain is your FPS will be limited by your GPU unless you reduce quality settings. At high or ultra settings a 2600 or 1600 will pretty much give you the same the same FPS in most games. The only way the extra expense makes any sense for your system is if you think you will upgrade the GPU in the very near future. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get the 3600 I just want you to be aware of what you are getting. If your doing any thing besides just gaming the faster CPU is preferred. At the end of the day you need to decide what parts fit your needs the best.

EVGA is a good brand. That’s is just not a particularly good line of PSU’s. The CXM 650 is more we’ll regarded. I think that’s a good decision.

The B-Die certainly isn’t a must have but will give a performance bump over higher latency memory. It’s honestly kind of mismatch for the build. I only brought it up because it’s not going to be available much longer. I pretty much only use B-die trident z or ripjaws 5 3200 CL16 these days. I’ve built so many ryzen machines I’ve lost count. The 3200 cL 16 ripjaws 5 has been rock solid for me in a bunch of builds and I would recommend it.

Amazon and New Egg can be nice when they have sales but Micro Center is king when it comes deals. Especially on motherboards and CPU’s. They also have incredible deals on open box and refurb stuff. They also give you bundle discounts. If you have one in your area it will not be possible to find better deals on CPUs and Motherboards. I’m on my way to go buy a bunch of ridiculous deals this morning actually.
 
Jul 3, 2019
27
1
35
0
The 3600 is likely to be significantly faster than the previous ryzen 5. We don’t know 100% because it’s not out yet and we don’t have independent benchmarks. What I’m trying to explain is your FPS will be limited by your GPU unless you reduce quality settings. At high or ultra settings a 2600 or 1600 will pretty much give you the same the same FPS in most games. The only way the extra expense makes any sense for your system is if you think you will upgrade the GPU in the very near future. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get the 3600 I just want you to be aware of what you are getting. If your doing any thing besides just gaming the faster CPU is preferred. At the end of the day you need to decide what parts fit your needs the best.

EVGA is a good brand. That’s is just not a particularly good line of PSU’s. The CXM 650 is more we’ll regarded. I think that’s a good decision.

The B-Die certainly isn’t a must have but will give a performance bump over higher latency memory. It’s honestly kind of mismatch for the build. I only brought it up because it’s not going to be available much longer. I pretty much only use B-die trident z or ripjaws 5 3200 CL16 these days. I’ve built so many ryzen machines I’ve lost count. The 3200 cL 16 ripjaws 5 has been rock solid for me in a bunch of builds and I would recommend it.

Amazon and New Egg can be nice when they have sales but Micro Center is king when it comes deals. Especially on motherboards and CPU’s. They also have incredible deals on open box and refurb stuff. They also give you bundle discounts. If you have one in your area it will not be possible to find better deals on CPUs and Motherboards. I’m on my way to go buy a bunch of ridiculous deals this morning actually.
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/redbioniclem/saved/8bvdmG

I updated the build the only thing I am missing is deciding on the 3600/2600/2600x and knowing if I should overclock any cpu. I overthink things too much.
Also, I will probably use that amazon store card 60$ deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I would've loved to buy a build like this one,

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/C7tdsZ

but I feel like even if it is only 100bucks more expensive( with the deals from MicroCenter, thank you btw) It feels like too much and out of place.
 

rigg42

Commendable
Oct 17, 2018
639
233
1,390
33
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/redbioniclem/saved/8bvdmG

I updated the build the only thing I am missing is deciding on the 3600/2600/2600x and knowing if I should overclock any cpu. I overthink things too much.
Also, I will probably use that amazon store card 60$ deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I would've loved to buy a build like this one,

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/C7tdsZ

but I feel like even if it is only 100bucks more expensive( with the deals from MicroCenter, thank you btw) It feels like too much and out of place.
You'll need a cooler to overclock any of the CPUs or to even get good temperture and boost performance from a 2600x.

Keep in mind that the $30 motherboard bundle from micro center applies to open box deals as well. Just stick to open box mobos that have I/O shields. They have to enter the deal manually. Just ask. Open box GPUs, SSDs, and memory kits can also be great deals as are factory refurbished corsair PSUs.
 
Jul 3, 2019
27
1
35
0
You'll need a cooler to overclock any of the CPUs or to even get good temperture and boost performance from a 2600x.

Keep in mind that the $30 motherboard bundle from micro center applies to open box deals as well. Just stick to open box mobos that have I/O shields. They have to enter the deal manually. Just ask. Open box GPUs, SSDs, and memory kits can also be great deals as are factory refurbished corsair PSUs.
I will probably not buy from Micro Center unless the amazon 60$ is a lie. I just got excited because I saw the ryzen 7 2700x at 199.99$.

I'll just do this build and then figure out if I can overclock the CPU (I am going for the 3600 to then re-install it once I build a pc from scratch in a year or two)

As far as I know, every ryzen 5 comes with a stock cooler, are those not enough to overclock them, at least partially.

PS. You are helping me a lot, just wanted to say thanks.
 

rigg42

Commendable
Oct 17, 2018
639
233
1,390
33
I will probably not buy from Micro Center unless the amazon 60$ is a lie. I just got excited because I saw the ryzen 7 2700x at 199.99$.

I'll just do this build and then figure out if I can overclock the CPU (I am going for the 3600 to then re-install it once I build a pc from scratch in a year or two)

As far as I know, every ryzen 5 comes with a stock cooler, are those not enough to overclock them, at least partially.

PS. You are helping me a lot, just wanted to say thanks.
No problem. Happy to help. What are the specifics of the amazon deal? I have a hard time thinking you would save money over MC regardless of what you are buying. The 2600 and 3600 come with a wraith stealth. It’s adequate for stock on the 2600 but doesn’t really give any headroom for OC. The 2600x and 1600 come with the wraith spire. This is good for 3.8 - 4ghz OC on the 1600 but is basically inadequate for the 2600x stock boost.
 
Jul 3, 2019
27
1
35
0
No problem. Happy to help. What are the specifics of the amazon deal? I have a hard time thinking you would save money over MC regardless of what you are buying. The 2600 and 3600 come with a wraith stealth. It’s adequate for stock on the 2600 but doesn’t really give any headroom for OC. The 2600x and 1600 come with the wraith spire. This is good for 3.8 - 4ghz OC on the 1600 but is basically inadequate for the 2600x stock boost.
Then I guess I will buy the 3600 and won't OC it until I upgrade everything, buy a better cooler or put it in a new from scratch build.

Here is the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Synchrony-Bank-Amazon-com-Store-Card/dp/B008A0GNA8
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
I've never really understood why they make a BIOS need a CPU to operate.
The BIOS is just an SPI NVRAM memory chip containing the instructions the CPU needs to start up, it cannot do anything on its own. Boards that can update BIOS without a CPU installed have a micro-controller with its own on-chip firmware and some hardware to hijack a USB port to read a BIOS image from and flash it.

CPUs need a BIOS to boot because due to the very finicky nature of modern high-speed signaling, modern CPUs have tons of setup registers that need to be configured with board-specific values determined by the motherboard manufacturer on a board+CPU+DIMM specific basis. When the hardware configuration doesn't match anything the BIOS is programmed for, you either get no-boot or the BIOS iterating through multiple possible configurations trying to find one that works and you see the board looking like it is "boot-looping" until it finds a usable combination or gives up.
 
The BIOS is just an SPI NVRAM memory chip containing the instructions the CPU needs to start up, it cannot do anything on its own. Boards that can update BIOS without a CPU installed have a micro-controller with its own on-chip firmware and some hardware to hijack a USB port to read a BIOS image from and flash it.

CPUs need a BIOS to boot because due to the very finicky nature of modern high-speed signaling, modern CPUs have tons of setup registers that need to be configured with board-specific values determined by the motherboard manufacturer on a board+CPU+DIMM specific basis. When the hardware configuration doesn't match anything the BIOS is programmed for, you either get no-boot or the BIOS iterating through multiple possible configurations trying to find one that works and you see the board looking like it is "boot-looping" until it finds a usable combination or gives up.
I don't need explaining why it does or doesn't. It's more of a rhetorical question. What I mean is, they should all be self-updating since it is possible to do. It's just cost/laziness to allow it. For Premium Mobos it should be standard.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS