First E6850 Benchmarks With Aggressive Pricing

[halbhh]

What Intel would love is to somehow recreate the old status quo of 80-85% market share, and magically maintain it forever.

That isn't possible of course.

It was an unstable point.

Either AMD will flourish, or China or Samsung or ____ will suddenly take up the challenge, but with rather deeper pockets, and lots of AMD engineers, etc.

 

[lambofgode3x]

If AMD was still in a more superior CPU position, would you lambast their executives if they acted the same way? Or tried the same tactics?

i for one, would say the same thing if amd did this to intel. the thing is that intel is kicking amd while it's down if this is true. yeah, it might be only buisness, but i didnt see them making major price cuts with the pentium 4's. why? cuz they weren't on top. now that they are, they want to see how much they can flex their muscle. lets face it. amd cannot defend themselves right now because they do not have the production power that intel has.

to be fair, if the tables were turned, and amd tried to pull this on intel, i would again be throwing flags. you already beat up and humiliated your opponent...dont kick him while he's down. let him get up, get a second wind, and then go back at it. what ever happened to "the spirit of competition". now everyone is trying to crush everyone else and saying it's "just business".

could just let them have the monopoly so the FTC could chop them in half.

i just think amd needs to release something AMAZING and QUICK. the whole "barcelona will be released monday" rumor was nice and all, but lets be serious...that would be a paper launch. if amd could keep up with pricing, it wouldnt be a problem. i think that amd needs to up its production power and quick... as i said before...wait and see.

 

[NMDante]

vern -
A quick question. Why not the same feelings towards AMD's executives, since they are the ones who put AMD in the financial position they are in now?

AMD executives are sounding like Mr. Barrett during the Netburst days. Pounding on their chests about things to come, but showing a product that didn't really impress.

Wouldn't your anger be bent towards them, as well as Intel's executives? Intel might be kicking while AMD is down, but what are the AMD executives doing to try to get back on their feet? Delay of announced products? Release of underwhelming platforms? Milking of an aging architecture? This does sound familar - Delaying then cancelling of Tejas. Itanium2. P4 lineup. 8O

 

[Blefuscu]

What on earth is all this talk about AMD going under? Stop thinking like a 12 year old. They were Intel's whipping boy for decades without going under. There's no way they're going under. If they get hammered and Ruiz refuses to blink, he'll be thrown out. If you think they'll have too much debt, just look up how much debt a "successful" company like GE has:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GE

 

[NMDante]

vern -
A quick question. Why not the same feelings towards AMD's executives, since they are the ones who put AMD in the financial position they are in now?
AMD executives are sounding like Mr. Barrett during the Netburst days. Pounding on their chests about things to come, but showing a product that didn't really impress.

Wouldn't your anger be bent towards them, as well as Intel's executives? Intel might be kicking while AMD is down, but what are the AMD executives doing to try to get back on their feet? Delay of announced products? Release of underwhelming platforms? Milking of an aging architecture? This does sound familar - Delaying then cancelling of Tejas. Itanium2. P4 lineup. 8O

Aparrently you missed all the ranting on AMD that I have done :lol: :lol:
I was bashing them for poor planning in the face of my peers here bieng sympathetic;I came under fire for their planning rants more than I can remember :lol: :lol:

I have totally railed on amd exec's for every BS move they made.And I have supported both companies for the great things they do.

Then I stand corrected. My bad.

I do remember some of your rants, but I expected a bit towards AMD in this thread too.
😳

 

[halbhh]

If AMD hadn't gutted their balance sheet to buy ATI and expand capacity they wouldn't be in trouble now. They chose to overextend themselves at the very moment that Intel finally came back and retook the lead. Very stupid indeed.

30% market share at any cost? That cost may well be chapter 11.

People on various forums, this one and others, have commented that the buy out of ATI and build out CapEx may not be a wise idea.....

I don't see Intel letting up the pressure. Intel pretty much discounted AMD as a competitor for many years, 2005 (Q4) through 2006 (Q2) stung enough that it appears they are not going to show any mercy.

These prices, building out F11x (Intel's largest 300 mm fab) for 45 nm, ramping a new 45 nm fab in Az, and one in Israel --- they will blow by AMD with volume and price....

This is indeed getting scary. They certainly came out swinging, and the pricing may be an attempt at a knock out blow....

Jack

If Intel did indeed aim specifically at knocking AMD out of contention, and lowered their profits for a couple of years to do it, and things went badly enough for AMD, and the OEMs didn't decide to keep AMD alive (a lot of ifs, but let's imagine for a moment)....then would the rest of the world be satisfied to let such an important technolgy go without competition?

I think it's highly likely the response would be some "strategic initiatives" by some rich players (governments), willing to invest for the long run. China has already given some signals it would like to make commercial airplanes (!) someday. Why not bring in engineers from Taiwan, Austin, etc., and put in $50-$100B over 5 years to create real competition for Intel.

I think actually it's a lot better for Intel to have AMD around. Just like it's better for Sun and HP, and Dell to have AMD around.

 

[NMDante]

What on earth is all this talk about AMD going under? Stop thinking like a 12 year old. They were Intel's whipping boy for decades without going under. There's no way they're going under. If they get hammered and Ruiz refuses to blink, he'll be thrown out. If you think they'll have too much debt, just look up how much debt a "successful" company like GE has:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GE

Umm...can you find a post where I said AMD was going under, before you think I'm a 12 yr. old.

I don't know if you meant to reply to me, but I never said AMD was going under. The most I might have implied was that AMD is hurting finanically, not going under.

Thank you.

 

[Blefuscu]

What on earth is all this talk about AMD going under? Stop thinking like a 12 year old. They were Intel's whipping boy for decades without going under. There's no way they're going under. If they get hammered and Ruiz refuses to blink, he'll be thrown out. If you think they'll have too much debt, just look up how much debt a "successful" company like GE has:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GE

Umm...can you find a post where I said AMD was going under, before you think I'm a 12 yr. old.

I don't know if you meant to reply to me, but I never said AMD was going under. The most I might have implied was that AMD is hurting finanically, not going under.

Thank you.

no, not you 🙂. i'm just too lazy to click on the right reply button, sorry.

 

[NMDante]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Its all good 😛 we need AMD its just too bad they arent bigger.

Yes it is, that I agree with.

But if AMD, and this is a big IF, does not survive, I believe halbhh and others have mentioned that it could be an opening for other countries or companies to jump in and try to compete.

Of course, Intel would be hit hard by federal trade commission actions, too.

 

[Blefuscu]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Its all good 😛 we need AMD its just too bad they arent bigger.

Yes it is, that I agree with.

But if AMD, and this is a big IF, does not survive, I believe halbhh and others have mentioned that it could be an opening for other countries or companies to jump in and try to compete.

Of course, Intel would be hit hard by federal trade commission actions, too.


This is true. Even if Hector runs AMD into the ground, IBM will still be there to dole out cutting edge chip research to anyone who needs it. An asteroid would have to hit the earth for IBM to go under.

 

[chuckshissle]

I really hope the price will be so, it would be nice to not spend so much money for my next build later this year.

 

[halbhh]

To be honest Hal --- I don't think the market will allow it... for several reasons. They (OEMs) have gotten a better taste of what a competitive AMD will do for their bottom lines. In fact, I think we can see signs of OEMs leveraging their buying power for non-CPU compontents in favor of AMD in certain circumstances.

What I mean by this, OEMs and AMD will work creatively to put the total platform of AMD in contention to avoid such a doomsday scenario.

I don't think the consumer (end user) really cares much, but the distributors, OEMs small and large do....

Second, AMD still has the underdog classification which will bring them business just because they are an underdog.... what helped them recently and what will help them in the near future is that they now have good products, at least good enough to market and push out the door.

Finally, AMD has a way of surviving, technically they should have folded in 2001, but they didn't... so I expect them to weather this as well... but this last round of info, if true.... man, it will be bloody for a while.

Jack

I agree with your thoughts on things that favor AMD.

Regarding the low priced quad, It's not already in the bank, but ....it *could* lead to more computer demand, which is what both companies really need, with their ambitious fab building.

Shoot, it would be *very smart* for Intel to put some of those big dollars into basic software research to push multi-threaded software evolution.

 

[Blefuscu]

With this Intel is saying that any dual core will soon go into the budget segment while quad-cores will be the only products in the mainstream to extreme range. From a wafer real estate perspective, this is completely reasonable. It costs them twice as much fab capacity to make a QX6700 as it does to make an E6700. I also have no doubt they have sufficient capacity at these price points, as the observation that 95%+ of E6300's o/c past 3.2GHz should tell us their yields are very high.

But my question is whether Intel will be able to sell so many quad-core parts to keep its ASPs and margins decent. So many people simply don't need four cores and the associated heat output. Is this something their marketing machine can handle?

another angle might be that when nehalem comes (is that the MA with CSI?), there will be less of a need for huge caches and making 45nm quad core nehalems might be just as cheap as making dual core penryns. i'm not an expert by any means, but sticking to dual core might result in overcapacity at some point and maybe intel is trying to prepare the market/software developers for quads?

 

[jackxlj]

hello again, it seems i have recently joined a club of toms forums..the new fathers club...we adpoted 2 month old twins, and they are beautiful...sorry to change to topic...back to topic at hand...i didnt read the ops link, but are those msrp prices, or bulk prices when bought in 1000s?

 

[jackxlj]

worried? naaa this is the most exciteing thing ive ever done! My live in florida, we went this morning and did the prepaid college, life insurence, car fund, trust fund. Wife is finalizeing the sale of her shop, and we are happy. The best part of it is, I have two beautiful daughters, and no medical bills!... :twisted: We had my wifes brother with us for the first 9 years of marrige,he was 8 when he moved in with us, so I kinda knew what to expect

 

[hognose]

Since this is my first post and don't want it coming out later and having people question my motives I am going to say the following. I work for Intel, in no way shape or form do I speak for Intel. The following is my personal opinion only and does not reflect the opinions of anyone other than me.


OK, having said that, I can, with all honesty, say I have never seen a single thing within Intel which would suggest they want AMD to go out of business. In fact, I have specifically heard(and believe) comments that having a real competitor in AMD is making us a better company. The fact that for many recent years Intel was complacent and executed very poorly while a great competitor executed crisply really stung many of us. We love competition, even internally, and it is well understood we simply did not execute well for many years. So what now? Intel has definitely turned the corner regarding ability to execute(3 years ago we couldn't decide our way out of a paper bag) and begun to operate effectively again. I only say effectively because the company is still not hitting on all 8 Cylinders (I'd personally say it is at 5 or six cylinders).

Did I begrudge AMD when they clearly had the best processors and drove Intel ASP's down? No. We are in competition and they won the round (quite a few rounds actually). Maybe Intel one the recent round, but I have no doubt that AMD will hit back with a great product and take the lead again at some point. Companies are very much like people...there are times when they seem unstoppable, but inevitably they stumble, or the competition comes up with a technology shifting product that changes the landscape. And then the cycle starts over again. I know it is very easy to get caught up in what is happening at any given time, but if people take a step back and look at technology historically you will see, there is almost always great competition, technology advances can quickly change the playing field, and what makes great companies great is their ability to adjust to those changes (and yes, I consider both AMD and Intel great companies).

hognose

 

[jackxlj]

welcome to the forums hognose. hmmm i went back and read the prices, and then looked over some things...changed a diaper...when are these prices supposed to go in effect?these could be set for q408 to reduce inventory for naehelm or however its spelled

 

[jackxlj]

Intel cant afford for amd to close shop...even if they had to write some loans out to amd, they need amd to keep from being called a monopoly

 

[NMDante]

hello again, it seems i have recently joined a club of toms forums..the new fathers club...we adpoted 2 month old twins, and they are beautiful...sorry to change to topic...back to topic at hand...i didnt read the ops link, but are those msrp prices, or bulk prices when bought in 1000s?

Wow...congrats. 😀

 

[jackxlj]

thankyou...i would offer cigars...but Candy has firmly put her foot down...no more smokeing...not ever, not even the one cigar a month i alloed myself...no drinking...bah women...i do have some really nice uv cables left from the computers i just had built.... 😳

 

[NMDante]

thankyou...i would offer cigars...but Candy has firmly put her foot down...no more smokeing...not ever, not even the one cigar a month i alloed myself...no drinking...bah women...i do have some really nice uv cables left from the computers i just had built.... 😳

BOO!!! We want cigars!!! Good ones, not those gum cigars. LOL

 

[halbhh]

I don't see Intel having an advantage with more cores unless there is some problem with AMD doing quad core. Why should there be?

As for 8 core, it really would need some kind of software revolution of some sort to make it the thing to have for ordinary people.

That would be cool.

If that happens, again, it's to both companies advantage.

 

[Wrathbin]

This doesn't make to much sense on Intel's part, for starters they are in the middle of a lawsuit saying they were buying off the big PC makers so they wouldn't use AMD chips and just as soon as the lawsuit starts those PC makers start using AMD processors probably because they stop getting the kick backs, then they lose important documents they were supposed to be keeping and now they are trying to hurt AMD by way undercutting them in prices.

Why not just tell the Judge, hey Im guilty here's a few billion dollars to survive with, I know if I was the Judge I would be looking at them with a funny look.

 

[jackxlj]

hmmm those prices are alot lower then the price cuts intel was leaking earlier...hmmm perhaps a sooner launch of penryn then anyone expected? about two weeks ago i mentioned that i had been told i could count on getting a bearlake mobo sooner then intel had expected to be able to deliver them...perhaps the reason being they need them to launch the penryn?maybe penryn earlq407 or late q307?

 

[hognose]

;-) thanks Jack, though there are many, many, more people in the company who bring significantly more to the table than I do.

Competition is a funny thing, and if the discussion about pricing changes is accurate I can see why people may think it is equivalent to a team needlessly adding points to the board when the game is already won. Though I don't believe the Intel/AMD competition is anywhere near the end of the game.

There is always a fine line between strong competition and rubbing it in though. I don't think we'll know if the line has been crossed until we see whether Barcelona is the beast some expect it to be or not. I honestly hope it is an incredible CPU, both companies are only made stronger by strong competition.

hognose