Build Advice First time build. Budget friendly Mini-ITX

[Michal95]

Hi everyone,

I am building my first PC and would very much appreciate your opinion on the components that I decided to purchase. I am aiming for a £ 1,000 - £ 1,200 build.

CPU: Intel i5-12400
GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 XC
RAM: 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance
Motherboard: ASRock B660M-ITX
Case: Cooler Master NR200
CPU cooling: Scythe Fuma 2 rev. B
Fans: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM
NVME: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB (for OS and else)
PSU: EVGA Supernova 650 GM, 80 Plus Gold 650W

Thank you for everyone's input.

Best,

 

[Karadjgne]

The Samsung 970 Plus uses the same controller as the 980 Pro, so it's ahead of the curve to begin with. Gen4 ssds require a heatsink, and ventilation or they overheat. So if the area where the ssd is going to be situated is cramped, has little airflow etc, it's more beneficial to go with Gen3. SFF builds are all about maximizing ability without compromising performance, but that also means clearances and tolerances are major players.

That also means choice of psu is a factor. An ATX psu is not all the same thing. Some are 140mm deep, some are 160mm deep, for the same wattage. A semi-modular psu can be a blessing over full modular, big modular plugs on the 24pin don't bend easily, so a 140mm ends up being 150+mm. Semi modular doesn't have that restriction, the wires can be flattened out some and bent. Personally, I'd stick with a SFX Platinum, much smaller, more efficient, less heat, usually better protections, quieter. That means less issues overall for use or fitment and wiring as SFX has shorter wires to begin with.

SFF/mITX needs to be thought out, much more than standard cases, because internal volume is so much less, there does need to be air movement etc. The best performance gpu made is useless if it barely fits, leaves no room for the power plugs, has so little airflow to it that it's constantly thermal throttling. That's why a reference is desirable, it's only 2 slots, vrs AIB standards that can reach upto 3.5 slots for slightly better performance. On paper.

That's why I said 'mITX on a budget?' in my first post, what you need doesn't always line up with what your wallet wants. It could very well be far better to spend the extra £30-£40 on a good SFX psu than try to cram in a cheaper ATX of similar wattage.

The Fuma2 is an excellent small height cooler, over 200w capacity, but can have clearance issues with some ram, or even motherboards with giant heatsinking on the VRM's area. A beQuiet DarkRock TF has better performance, similar height, being a downdraft has advantages, no issues with ram, but again costs more.

The key to a successful SFF/mITX build is not in the parts themselves, but in the planning and research, the pc doesn't just have to work, it also has to work well, meeting or better yet, beating your expectations.

It's in the little things, like using 15mm fans instead of standard 25mm thick fans, just to get clearances for better airflow, a smaller but more efficient cpu cooler, to allow use of rear exhaust fans at a quieter rpm. It's not just about will it fit, but what that fitment affects, what will it do etc.

 

[Michal95]

The Samsung 970 Plus uses the same controller as the 980 Pro, so it's ahead of the curve to begin with. Gen4 ssds require a heatsink, and ventilation or they overheat.

As far as I understand the Gigabyte X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI motherboard has a built-in heatsink for the M.2 connectors, which they call "M.2 Thermal Guard with Multi-Layered Heatsink Design ", so it should alleviate a problem of thermals.

That also means choice of psu is a factor. An ATX psu is not all the same thing. Some are 140mm deep, some are 160mm deep, for the same wattage. A semi-modular psu can be a blessing over full modular, big modular plugs on the 24pin don't bend easily, so a 140mm ends up being 150+mm. Semi modular doesn't have that restriction, the wires can be flattened out some and bent. Personally, I'd stick with a SFX Platinum, much smaller, more efficient, less heat, usually better protections, quieter. That means less issues overall for use or fitment and wiring as SFX has shorter wires to begin with.

There are some SFX PSU's rated Platinum, however they are simply more expensive, like this one >> Corsair CP-9020186-UK SF750 80 Plus Platinum Certified Power Supply Unit, SF Series, 750 W, Fully Modular - Black (UK) : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories . I'm not an expert, that's why I'm asking forum members for advice, believing you guys are much more competent than I am. The question is if the extra 50 pounds for PSU is really needed. There always are better parts for higher price but upgrades at some points are just not essential for the build to operate on it's optimal level.

The best performance gpu made is useless if it barely fits, leaves no room for the power plugs, has so little airflow to it that it's constantly thermal throttling. That's why a reference is desirable, it's only 2 slots, vrs AIB standards that can reach upto 3.5 slots for slightly better performance. On paper.

This is why I decided to go with RTX 3070 Founders Edition, for the benefits you mention.

That's why I said 'mITX on a budget?' in my first post, what you need doesn't always line up with what your wallet wants. It could very well be far better to spend the extra £30-£40 on a good SFX psu than try to cram in a cheaper ATX of similar wattage.

Already added 100-150 pounds above my initial build suggestion as I am interested in having the PC that works on it's optimal level without a worry that something might overheat, break down etc.

The Fuma2 is an excellent small height cooler, over 200w capacity, but can have clearance issues with some ram, or even motherboards with giant heatsinking on the VRM's area. A beQuiet DarkRock TF has better performance, similar height, being a downdraft has advantages, no issues with ram, but again costs more.

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts, Be Quiet Pure Rock 2 seems to be a good CPU Cooler. It easily fits the NR200 case and based on the tests done by Machine & Parts YouTube channel host, thermals and noise is on very acceptable levels when dealing with an entry-mid level CPU of Ryzen 5 5600.

The key to a successful SFF/mITX build is not in the parts themselves, but in the planning and research, the pc doesn't just have to work, it also has to work well, meeting or better yet, beating your expectations.

This is why I'm here and not just throwing money on parts right away

Thanks for the help!

 

[Michal95]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about upgrading a PSU to Platinum-rated as I'm reading there might be some issues with the PSU I have chosen so far ( Cooler Master V650 Gold ).

The SFX PSU I'm considering at the moment is Corsair SF750 80 Plus Platinum . There's a £50 difference in the two above but Corsair seems to have better reviews + obviously a better efficiency rating. Also I'm reading that 600W should be enough for my build but am wondering if buying SF750 wouldn't be more of a safe bet if I decide to upgrade to better CPU & GPU combo in the future.

Thanks!

 

[Math Geek]

with the way power requirements are spiking with gpu's, no telling what will be needed 2 or 3 gens from now. a little extra now would give you some headroom for the future, but i really have no idea what to expect from gpu's down the line.

 

[Michal95]

@Math Geek I have decided to go with Corsair SF750 Platinum as above just to be on the safe side.

Please find my PC details below and let me know if you see any areas to potentially upgrade! I will go with 1TB storage for now with 2 partitions and see if after some time I need to buy a second nvme ssd.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/7gBrY9

CPU: AMD 5 5600
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 FE
RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance
Motherboard: Gigabyte x570 I AORUS pro wifi mini itx
Case: Cooler Master NR200 White
CPU cooling: Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Case fan: Noctua F12
NVME: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME
PSU: Corsair SF750 80 Plus Platinum

Total price: £1,230

Looks like a great PC to me!

 

[Karadjgne]

I have the 600w Corsair Platinum SFX, and I love it. Easily the single best psu I've owned, and I've owned some seriously good psus. It's silent, the fan almost never runs after startup, doesn't need to because the wasted heat is so minimal.

The biggest difference between the Gold and Platinum rated units physically is the cables. The Gold are the flat rubberized ribbons, which can be a pain to organize in tight spaces. The Platinum uses individually sleeved cables which makes it far easier to go around corners and the big bulk of the mains is minimized. Plus it looks nicer.

Other than that, the Corsair Platinum are the single best SFX made, on par with the full sized HX models as far as quality and outputs go, the other SFX from CoolerMaster, Silverstone and even Seasonic fall short.

Optimum Tech is a pro mITX reviewer/builder and the Corsair Plat is the only psu he uses, for a reason.

The Noctua F-12 is a higher SP, directed flow design fan, basically The fan for rad usage for more years than I can remember. Fans like that Move air, higher cfm fans move Air, there's a big difference. So an F-12 as intake in a restricted airflow case is perfect, but an F-12 as exhaust isn't. An S-12 is better suited at exhaust because it moves Air.

But as far as I can see, I don't see any reason for complaint with that build, it's going to run very quiet-silent even when pushed, won't be hard to clean or keep clean and should be entirely thermal worry free.

I did have to buy an argb mouse for mine. My monitors shut down/sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity, so the wife was constantly pushing the power button on the pc because mine runs dead silent at idle and she kept thinking the pc was OFF, as hers at the office is considerably louder. The mouse glow being a visual aid to tell her it was On lol.

 

[Michal95]

The Noctua F-12 is a higher SP, directed flow design fan, basically The fan for rad usage for more years than I can remember. Fans like that Move air, higher cfm fans move Air, there's a big difference. So an F-12 as intake in a restricted airflow case is perfect, but an F-12 as exhaust isn't. An S-12 is better suited at exhaust because it moves Air.

I planned to add just one additional Noctua case fan as an exhaust based on "Machines and more" channel host tests of ventilating NR200. If you recommend S-12 for exhaust, I'll just take the one you recommend. Same price and I can also see that S-12 is running even more quietly.

I'm also thinking about swapping the stock Cooler Master 120mm cooler with the 2nd S-12 so that it can be potentially more quiet.

Optimum Tech is a pro mITX reviewer/builder and the Corsair Plat is the only psu he uses, for a reason.

Good to see other people that appreciate Optimum Tech's content!

But as far as I can see, I don't see any reason for complaint with that build, it's going to run very quiet-silent even when pushed, won't be hard to clean or keep clean and should be entirely thermal worry free.

I did have to buy an argb mouse for mine. My monitors shut down/sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity, so the wife was constantly pushing the power button on the pc because mine runs dead silent at idle and she kept thinking the pc was OFF, as hers at the office is considerably louder. The mouse glow being a visual aid to tell her it was On lol.

My 5 yo ultrabook's fans are just going crazy the moment I just open Google Chrome or pretty much anything, not even thinking about gaming on it. So definitely it will be a good feeling to be able to work and do some gaming and still have a quietly operating PC in the background

 

[Karadjgne]

Yes, there's a difference in the fans. Cfm is air volume, the actual physical amount of air moved. Static pressure is the force behind the movement. So putting a high SP fan lije the F12 on exhaust just means it blows very hard, the air moves a long distance, like a garden hose with a tiny nozzle will shoot water 20feet, but that doesn't mean a Lot of water. Take the nozzle off and get the full flow, it barely goes a foot or so, but there's a lot more water. That's cfm.

Once the air and heat is out of the case, it really doesn't matter how far away you can feel that heated breeze. Better to have more air/heat put out instead.

On the flip side, at intake, the S12 kinda sucks. It'll push a lot of air in, but the air doesn't really go anywhere until sucked in by the cpu cooler and/or exhaust. There's not enough static pressure to force the air past wires, structure, hdd cages, distance, to make a good showing at the back of the case, namely the gpu fans. That's where the F12 excels, it'll shove all its air hitting the back of the case, regardless of restrictions or obstacles, giving the gpu a boost of cooler air.

Since the gpu in any gaming setup far exceeds the cpu in heat output (100w ish cpu vs 300w ish gpu), the gpu is the primary heat source, so really needs the most air.

 

[Math Geek]

i don't see anything wrong with it either. great mix of performance, efficiency, and quality.

i do love those sfx psu's myself. i used an old CX600m for now, but plan on changing it for one of them myself next time i see it on sale. i can wait since i don't need it now, but i do want one of those in my system as well.

 

[Karadjgne]

Optimum Tech. Heh. Funny story there. I started planning my build back when the nCase M1 was in version 5. Pretty much had it ironed out about 6 months later, just a few tweaks because the M1 v6 was released, which took a couple more months because of fitting dimensions.

Started ordering parts. Took 5 months to get my case because of Singapore customs being on lock down. Build was 99% complete, just waiting on the iceman reservoir when wouldn't you know that OT released a video putting together my original build except using Intel base, otherwise identical in design. Finished the build, OT released an update where he used the same iceman reservoir setup instead of the Apogee Drive II he'd originally used, and I'd originally designed for but couldn't get.

He built and video'd my build as I was building it, a first since nobody else I've ever heard of has 2x 240mm rads and full custom loop Inside a under 13L mITX. No extension shrouds like the Ghost uses.

Took him less than a week to build since he had parts on hand. Took me a year to build because of covid shipping lock downs and lack of mITX parts.

I was so mad lol. He even used the same coloring in the coolant. Purple.

View: https://youtu.be/Qmq0J9hzmlk

View: https://youtu.be/ZOcMt7zSGTY

 

[Karadjgne]

i don't see anything wrong with it either. great mix of performance, efficiency, and quality.

i do love those sfx psu's myself. i used an old CX600m for now, but plan on changing it for one of them myself next time i see it on sale. i can wait since i don't need it now, but i do want one of those in my system as well.

Best place to get one is generally direct from Corsair. It was not only the lowest listed price, but I signed up as a first time buyer and got an additional 15% off and free shipping. And with factory direct purchase, there's no 3rd party warranty stuff from a seller to deal with, if I have any issues I get factory direct RMA coverage, and Corsair is no slouch there.

 

[King Dranzer]

Best place to get one is generally direct from Corsair. It was not only the lowest listed price, but I signed up as a first time buyer and got an additional 15% off and free shipping. And with factory direct purchase, there's no 3rd party warranty stuff from a seller to deal with, if I have any issues I get factory direct RMA coverage, and Corsair is no slouch there.

Only wish they release a 1000W variant anytime soon. Next Gen will need that.

 

[Michal95]

Optimum Tech. Heh. Funny story there. I started planning my build back when the nCase M1 was in version 5. Pretty much had it ironed out about 6 months later, just a few tweaks because the M1 v6 was released, which took a couple more months because of fitting dimensions.

Started ordering parts. Took 5 months to get my case because of Singapore customs being on lock down. Build was 99% complete, just waiting on the iceman reservoir when wouldn't you know that OT released a video putting together my original build except using Intel base, otherwise identical in design. Finished the build, OT released an update where he used the same iceman reservoir setup instead of the Apogee Drive II he'd originally used, and I'd originally designed for but couldn't get.

He built and video'd my build as I was building it, a first since nobody else I've ever heard of has 2x 240mm rads and full custom loop Inside a under 13L mITX. No extension shrouds like the Ghost uses.

Took him less than a week to build since he had parts on hand. Took me a year to build because of covid shipping lock downs and lack of mITX parts.

I was so mad lol. He even used the same coloring in the coolant. Purple.

View: https://youtu.be/Qmq0J9hzmlk

View: https://youtu.be/ZOcMt7zSGTY

Quite a sick build! 🆒

Best place to get one is generally direct from Corsair. It was not only the lowest listed price, but I signed up as a first time buyer and got an additional 15% off and free shipping. And with factory direct purchase, there's no 3rd party warranty stuff from a seller to deal with, if I have any issues I get factory direct RMA coverage, and Corsair is no slouch there.

Would be a great piece of advice to order from Corsair website directly, but they don't have this 15% discount any more (at least for UK) unfortunately.

----------

Below I put my final build. Will try to remember to let you guys know once I put everything together and test this! Cannot wait!

CPU: AMD 5 5600
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 FE
RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance
Motherboard: Gigabyte x570 I AORUS pro wifi mini itx
Case: Cooler Master NR200 White
CPU cooling: Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Case fan: Noctua S12
NVME: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME
PSU: Corsair SF750 80 Plus Platinum

Total price: £1,230

Huge thank you to everyone who helped me get to this stage, time to order some stuff now!

EDIT:

Not fun fact, RTX 3070 FE became unavailable starting today in the UK.... Any ideas for an alternative considering the build above? Thanks.....

Is there a point waiting for restock? @Math Geek @King Dranzer @Why_Me @Karadjgne

 

[Karadjgne]

Check your clearances, see how much room you really have. Count on cards being at least 3 slots high after taking the fan shroud into consideration, then add a full 2.5-3 CM for air. If you hit bottom or sides, then it's a judgement call, wait on restock or take your chances.

Don't be scared of looking for the Ti either, sometimes they can be gotten cheaper than the older 3070. Depends on sales and discounts etc.

 

[Michal95]

@Karadjgne I have just ordered 3060 TI Founders Edition. Price: GBP 370 + shipping, making it quite fair. I will be probably gaming at 1080p anyway and play FPS with 400+FPS on medium settings.

I will be checking stock of 3070 in the next month or so and not open the 3060 TI yet. If 3070 FE is back in stock, I will just return the 3060 TI and order 3070 instead.

Hope the rest of the build still holds.

 

[Karadjgne]

It should, but ya never can tell. Ppl get wierd ideas sometimes, but mITX and SFF are generally not the hottest commodity items, so ppl tend to have stock.

 

[Michal95]

Hey guys,

Apologies for throwing at you so many messages, but there is also another situation, that is Amazon Prime Day 2022 that started literally just now...

So I am thinking of some other replacements that would give me some additional savings or potential improvements.

Storage
My initial pick: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 (2280) - £110

With Amazon Prime Day, there are a few very interesting alternatives though...
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 (2280) - £140 (1TB for additional £30....)
WD_BLACK SN850 1TB M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 NVMe - £85
WD_BLACK 1TB SN770 M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 NVMe - £70
WD_BLUE SN570 1TB M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3 NVMe - £60

For now, I'm thinking about buying the SN850 1TB for £25 less than my initial pick and would have PCIe Gen4... I don't want to buy 2TB because I just think I may never need 2TB of storage (and don't want to pay for this extra). Very open for any different views and opinions on this.

 

[Math Geek]

i have an SN770 and find it as snappy as my 970 evo plus. that's a good choice for the savings. but that 2 tb one for 30 more is hard to ignore

peer pressure peer pressure peer pressure. lol

 

[Karadjgne]

Peer pressure lol.

You'd be surprised at how fast 1Tb can fill up when you have plenty of space. If you have a 512Gb drive, you get frugal, deleting older or unused programs, choosing smaller games, taking photos or other media files and put them on different storage, all sorts of space saving and file management. Ask anyone whoever used a 120Gb OS drive what a task all that was to keep the drive clean ish and leave some space.

With a 1Tb drive, there's breathing room, but figure that some games with mods and DLC's can easily add upto over 250Gb by themselves. You blink, the drive is half full or more.

The SN850 is a good choice, but 2 things to consider. It's 1Tb and it's Gen4, so heat is a factor. If you can live with both no worries, then it's a good deal. But ultimately your choice.

Being 1Tb, if you find yourself filling that drive, and needing more, you'll be paying another £60+ for another 1Tb. Or £30 now, partition the drive into 2x 1Tb and use the second partition as a backup. Or conversely, get the SN850 for a primary drive, but also pickup the SN570 for £60, spend the same £140 ish, have a primary And a seperate backup drive. Any ancient or almost never used files go on the backup drive, as well as any backup, leaving you covered in event some virus saps the OS or the drive itself fails.

Not sure about anyone else, but my wedding photos and my kids pictures are priceless, is why I have multiple copies, from burned DVD to 3x other drives that aren't plugged into the pc.

 

[King Dranzer]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...-4-tb-pcie-nvme-solid-state-drive-wds400t1x0l

Drawback of Mini-ITX. LOL. You can't have this in the system. Specially when you care for Capacity and speeds.

 

[Michal95]

I think I might just take 2TB for extra 30...

There is also another RAM deal to save £20 and replace Corsair Vengeance 2x16GB with Crucial Ballistix 2x16 (3200MHz).
It should still fit though, right? it's a 6mm higher RAM.

 

[Karadjgne]

Now you know why it took so long to plan/build mine lol, always thinking about equitable or better components, different fitments, sales prices....

 

[Math Geek]

prime day does throw a wrench into things. some decent savings are hard to ignore.

the ram should be far enough away from the cooler to not hit it. if not, then swapping the fan to the other side of the cooler would give the room. i'm looking at my cooler and it does not clear the much smaller ram i have, so it will have to be next to the ram and not above it for it to fit. not sure how the size works on that mobo.

 

[Michal95]

RAM issue resolved as Ballistix doesn't fit with the Be Quiet Pure Rock 2. I could theoretically change for Pure Rock Slim 2, which has 2mm more clearence (40mm). Ballistix is 39.2mm high. I read though some reviews that pipes block RAM kits, so I think I will just spend a bit more and take Corsair Vengeance.

About RAM: Does MHz make much of a difference? I'm trying to decide between 3200 MHz and 3600 MHz.

Regarding Storage, I think I will pass on this one as well. 1TB is plenty of storage especially as I have an external spare 500GB drive to keep data that I don't use. And I want as low temperatures as possible so Gen4 also seems not to be a preferable option.

Fished out the Razer BlackShark v2 Pro Wireless on Prime Day though for half the price (£80) so at least something! haha

 

[Math Geek]

with ryzen ram speed makes a bit of a difference. not worth a ton of extra money but $10 or so to go to 3600 vs 3200 is worth it.