For Tim: Remove the Dracs from the game or make them compe..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Yep this all testing of ships and fighters and debating is exactly why
I said the Dracs are doomed.

The current Drac admin should bite his tongue and release a solid ,
acceptable, non dreaming
upgrade to the Drac race over all, with no correspondence or advice
entered into or accepted by anyone else.

'This is where he has to stop dreaming and be reasonable.'

Tim can then do the mod nice and simple and we have another race to
play with.

NONE of you seem capable of agreeing with each other, U all just have
to add your little bit or adjustment to something.

Trust Tim to make the final solution with the appropriate race admin.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

But he was a self-appointed current administration.

Which is why he should accept advice & ideas.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

david_bandy@hotmail.com wrote:
> But he was a self-appointed current administration.
>
> Which is why he should accept advice & ideas.

ok guys....i never thought there would be such a big discussion over
these changes. I asked a few months ago here and not many people
answered constructive. Only a few destructive answers were written so i
didn't ask here someone again.

Than i only discussed this topic with some "planets-friends" and tried
to make a new interesting race with some special features.

So i'll start another trial here!

I think these things we have to discuss:

1st)
a) Do you want the Dracs only improved a bit so you will be able
winning a game with them or
b) do you want a race with a few new features which give them a new
character?

2nd)
In my opinion the biggest disadvantages of this race are:
- low growth
- to low economy
- only slow ships
- no special ship advantages
- to less crewmen
- to less guests
- a bit underpowered fighters

3rd)
IMHO they are a bit boring because they don't have any special features
but the Solar Gamma Ray. I'd like to see them more different to other
races...

These points WE have to discuss about and i promise you i'll change the
dracs like most of you want to!!

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well I am seeing two possibilities:
A) Trying to make the race compeatable while trying to keep the
character of the Dracs, as it was intended by the race designer.
Which would mean to not change the growth rate and the general theme of
the Drac ships (ie. not boosting the ships speed - or better not
changing one bit about the Drac ships at all...) etc.
But this, without any special abilities (not described by Nakamura) to
be added, would mean to boost the start-up a whole lot, so that
regardless of neighbours (in not scripted games), they (the Dracs) are
able to either destroye them or to have them flee. Problem here would
be, that the maps alone do have a big influence: map size,planet
distribution, starting positions...
Ie. The boost of the start-up on a spaced Echo map has to be different
from a any boost of the snowflake game or a boost to the start-up on a
epsilon galaxy (with big cirlce positions), otherwise it would be
either unfair to the Dracs or the rest.
Of course we could add, as in the Echo Cluster scenario of Nakamura
(the race creator), some sort of entry point for additional Drac forces
to come (from a different galaxy) through it this way (generation of
additional troops/HGs (on ships), ships, wings etc.).(But that would
already be some sort of special ability)
This can reduce the unbalancing thing described above - as ships would
first have to move to the frontier (or wherever they are needed),
unless the Dracs did build JG's, if we now let the entry point only be
destroyed if the HW (of the Dracs) is destroyed (and possibly make the
Drac HW immune to WCMs of any kind and do not let the planet be
destroyed by high stress), this would also add additional vulnerability
to the Drac HW and the entry point - but will produce additional
problems in special scenarios...
If we would do that, the economic,growth (troops and Crew number
problem), fighter problem and other problems can be eleminated -
without any changing anything about the race (except for adding an
entry point from a different galaxy).
The only problems would be to balance the additional forces depending
on the turn number(in any case they would need to also depend on the
start-up settings) and the resource points (but the rp problem is then
really a minor problem which can be fixed easily).

B) Changing the race, while trying to keep some parts of the character
of the Dracs intact. And this is what you, H.Benne are trying to do -
and looks better then what I have seen at the beginning of last year
from your suggestions.
Mayor characteristics which should in my opinion not be changed (too
much) are the military touch of the ships (and the military ships being
slow) and the low growth rate. But this is not an easy thing to do.
And while I do not like all of your proposed changes, they are
attending to big parts of the Drac problems.
If done right this can make the Dracs competeable in both normal games
and scenarios.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Howdy All,

As the who shall remain Nameless stated, The 'B' option might be best.
'A' too dependent on map size and changing conditions.
But feel the ships do need boosting somewhat, and or Drac Crew rating
needs improving as in your proposals.
If they are to remain slow then defintitely need more bite. Like the LW
size to 2000 as in your proposals.
Any marauder improvements will be most useful.
Growth did need impoving but hey might not get away with boosting
everything.

Not too in favour with the extra race abilities, I read in old posts
they met with a lot of critisim....🙁
Maybe remove area effect special abilities, and that planet stability
problem u introduced....not so good me thinks....
In the attempt to balance them with the area effect abilties u weakened
them somewhat,
Making natives get killed, other races do reduce natives but get growth
gains, happiness gain not really worth it.
Or in the above make it a switch for the special building, on or off??
Actually think this was your intention anyway so sorry,
Though I'd b leaving it off.

The Krait, whilst way good for tech 5, aint really buildable for quite
a while and then when u can build them usefully, so can the enemy build
higher tech ships, so I dont c it a problem except in shareware games.
Nemisis torp give u optional powers
for the ship, its removal can weaken them somewhat. Changing to tech 10
aint so bad.

The drac starbase being made non-towable limits their ability to get
metals, this I didnt like.
If you intend to force lots of them to b built then need more devices
on them and weapons etc to make it worth while building,
this mod may make this ship redundant too. Its not like it is a strong
ship.

Didnt like the captured ship limitations, this really weakened the
race, even the Solorians can use what they capture.

The prison mods, double death rate, but no riots, sounds great,
especially at the moment with the near useless bad blood
effecting the prisoners to non producing. They get double production
already because of prison camps and mines.

Cant recall all the changes but was impressed by what you had come up
with,just doubt the special abilities will get
approved.

Cheers.
Lee.
ps.To sum it up, as the mods sit at the moment they all have to be
approved as you have intended, as to remove
special race abilties etc you will have to start removing weaknesses
that you setup to balance them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

ok, fist of all thanks for your good and long answers.

As i understand you both you'd like to see the Dracs a bit improved in
stats and better ships but not too much in new different special race
abilities, correct?!
I agree with you. This would make it much more easy for Tim and we
don't get too much trouble with balancing.

I will have to think about it and write a new message here when i
finished.

If someone wants to send me some proposals my eMail is

<vgaplanets#at#hbenne#DE>

CU later
H.Benne

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

LeeSMaz wrote:
> Howdy All,
>
> As the who shall remain Nameless stated, The 'B' option might be best.
> 'A' too dependent on map size and changing conditions.
> But feel the ships do need boosting somewhat, and or Drac Crew rating
> needs improving as in your proposals.
> If they are to remain slow then defintitely need more bite. Like the LW
> size to 2000 as in your proposals.
> Any marauder improvements will be most useful.

I think 5000 guests should be enough. The point why it's not ot high i
think is because the Dracs won't train enough HGs fillings this ship
complete with HGs. So they will have to capture ships with troops which
is much more difficult.

> Growth did need impoving but hey might not get away with boosting
> everything.
>

85 is still not really much, isn't it?

> Not too in favour with the extra race abilities, I read in old posts
> they met with a lot of critisim....🙁
> Maybe remove area effect special abilities, and that planet stability
> problem u introduced....not so good me thinks....
> In the attempt to balance them with the area effect abilties u weakened
> them somewhat,

Yes, i know. Thats why now i removed the planet thing. But the
capturing colos and Holy Order of Axia Prime i really like, so i'd like
to realize this.

> Making natives get killed, other races do reduce natives but get growth
> gains, happiness gain not really worth it.

Hmm...but you earn 4x taxes also. My idea was: earning lots of money in
short time and than you have to look for new ressources...don't you
think this is a good feature?

> Or in the above make it a switch for the special building, on or off??
> Actually think this was your intention anyway so sorry,
> Though I'd b leaving it off.
>
> The Krait, whilst way good for tech 5, aint really buildable for quite
> a while and then when u can build them usefully, so can the enemy build
> higher tech ships, so I dont c it a problem except in shareware games.
> Nemisis torp give u optional powers
> for the ship, its removal can weaken them somewhat. Changing to tech 10
> aint so bad.

What means "aint"? I cannot translate this. What i wanted for the Krait
was a not typical Warship but a ship for special orders. That's why i
changed the Solar Gamma Ray that much. What do you say to these
changes?

> The drac starbase being made non-towable limits their ability to get
> metals, this I didnt like.
> If you intend to force lots of them to b built then need more devices
> on them and weapons etc to make it worth while building,
> this mod may make this ship redundant too. Its not like it is a strong
> ship.
>

Hm, okay, after i removed the plaet exploding thing i don't need this
flying homeworld any more. I'll try to find another good job for it. Do
you really think making it not towable (it was only towable by the
Krait or differen alien ships) making the base less useful? Which
devices would make it more useful without overpowering it?

> Didnt like the captured ship limitations, this really weakened the
> race, even the Solorians can use what they capture.

Sorry, i cannot follow? Why should the dracs cannot use alien ships???

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

hbenne wrote:
> ok, fist of all thanks for your good and long answers.
>
> As i understand you both you'd like to see the Dracs a bit improved in
> stats and better ships but not too much in new different special race
> abilities, correct?!

Well I would like to see growth rate not changed too much, the other
stats are not such a big problem, but currently the Dracs are about low
growth and slow ships. And some additional race abilities which are
along the current Drac character are also not bad.

Which could include:
- cheaper parts (at least on some tech lvls)
- increased speed with slow engines (on native drac hulls)
- increased exp awarding for Drac ships (and awarding exp for killing
fighters)
- increased initial skill of Drac ships
- decreased costs of JGs,
- boosting the effectiveness of the Solar Gamma Ray
- if growth is not changed , increased protection for the Drac HW,
- additional starting stuff (additional starting troops, additional
starting
parts etc.)
- in non-scripted games, starting of with a Pod Launcher, Gov Center
and max
farms
- lowered costs of some ETs for Dracs
- ghips and amphs only producing stuff that Dracs can really use.
- some starting ghips and amphibs (in non-scripted games)
- tweaking some of the higher tech ships so that they are really useful
(adding
some attack and evasive boni raising the hull mounts of 200)
- different calculation of resource points
....

> I agree with you. This would make it much more easy for Tim and we
> don't get too much trouble with balancing.
>

Well a big question is to what changes Tim might agree.

> I will have to think about it and write a new message here when i
> finished.
>
> If someone wants to send me some proposals my eMail is
>
> <vgaplanets#at#hbenne#DE>
>
> CU later
> H.Benne

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

With the Drac mods , somewhere I thought I read that they couldn't
use hypedrives, even on captured ships??

I could b wrong or misunderstood.

Personally, I'd like to be able to use any hype ships I capture or
trade for.
Makes the captured ship very valuable to the Dracs as their normal
ships r slow.
But if u feel this balances some other race power then OK I guess.
Though in the game Pisces of 8 on drew's, the game script gave me
an EE shuttle to hype around with to speed exploration up.

Cheers.
Lee.
ps. Luv all the above change suggestions,.