ltdementhial
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- Aug 20, 2011
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[citation][nom]icemunk[/nom]My company in Canada takes 14-15 "co-op" students and makes them work. They don't get paid. What's the difference?[/citation]
The difference is that when you read recent articles written about Foxconn, half of them are reporting overworked employees, employee suicides, an explosion which killed a few workers and injured others, and a recent report of an employee riot. I don't know where you work, but I would hazard a guess your company doesn't have quite the same problems Foxconn does. You can argue about the accuracy or relevancy of the reports, but the sheer number of reported issues should tell you that this isn't a place you should be comfortable sending children to work. I wouldn't work there, and I certainly wouldn't send MY children to work there.
The difference is that when you read recent articles written about Foxconn, half of them are reporting overworked employees, employee suicides, an explosion which killed a few workers and injured others, and a recent report of an employee riot. I don't know where you work, but I would hazard a guess your company doesn't have quite the same problems Foxconn does. You can argue about the accuracy or relevancy of the reports, but the sheer number of reported issues should tell you that this isn't a place you should be comfortable sending children to work. I wouldn't work there, and I certainly wouldn't send MY children to work there.
[citation][nom]AM2A[/nom]The difference is that when you read recent articles written about Foxconn, half of them are reporting overworked employees, employee suicides, an explosion which killed a few workers and injured others, and a recent report of an employee riot. I don't know where you work, but I would hazard a guess your company doesn't have quite the same problems Foxconn does. You can argue about the accuracy or relevancy of the reports, but the sheer number of reported issues should tell you that this isn't a place you should be comfortable sending children to work. I wouldn't work there, and I certainly wouldn't send MY children to work there.[/citation]
Oil sands. I work 60+ hours per week. I get my ass kicked every week and feel like crap when I have time.. but the pays good. Anyways, good for China and their development. It's progress, and I am not the type to stand by and criticize it, and pretend I'm some sort of expert because I read the news.
Oil sands. I work 60+ hours per week. I get my ass kicked every week and feel like crap when I have time.. but the pays good. Anyways, good for China and their development. It's progress, and I am not the type to stand by and criticize it, and pretend I'm some sort of expert because I read the news.
[citation][nom]icemunk[/nom]Oil sands. I work 60+ hours per week. I get my ass kicked every week and feel like crap when I have time.. but the pays good. Anyways, good for China and their development. It's progress, and I am not the type to stand by and criticize it, and pretend I'm some sort of expert because I read the news.[/citation]
I agree that China has come a long way, but they still have a long way to go. I expect that your company abides by all applicable laws regarding underage labor. I don't think you can make the same assumption about the average Chinese company yet. Labor rights issues only seem to be acted on after they are reported in the media. Anyway, Foxconn apparently wasn't even aware that they were underage, so they were probably treated the same as a regular employee. I'm not pretending to be an expert, just stating my opinion same as you.
I agree that China has come a long way, but they still have a long way to go. I expect that your company abides by all applicable laws regarding underage labor. I don't think you can make the same assumption about the average Chinese company yet. Labor rights issues only seem to be acted on after they are reported in the media. Anyway, Foxconn apparently wasn't even aware that they were underage, so they were probably treated the same as a regular employee. I'm not pretending to be an expert, just stating my opinion same as you.
I don't see an issue with people age 14 and up working. In the US, it's perfectly legal for a 14y.o. to have a job so long as their parents are willing to sign the work permit for them. Of course, they're restricted in how many hours and what days they can work....but they're still permitted to work. Some states (not sure of laws in all 50 states as I've only lived in 1 of them) even allow kids as young as 12 to work in family owned businesses. So, given US labor laws that allow 14y.o. children to work...why do we have such a problem with it happening in China? Why should we expect more of china, than we do of ourselves?
[citation][nom]slabbo[/nom]also in the USA you can work at age 14 with a work permit. My niece even wanted to find a job at the age of 12, but can't. She just wanted to make some extra money.[/citation]
Might depend on the state, but some allow children as young as 12 to work in family owned businesses....while others can work in certain industries as young as 14 with a work permit.
[citation][nom]slabbo[/nom]also in the USA you can work at age 14 with a work permit. My niece even wanted to find a job at the age of 12, but can't. She just wanted to make some extra money.[/citation]
Might depend on the state, but some allow children as young as 12 to work in family owned businesses....while others can work in certain industries as young as 14 with a work permit.
[citation][nom]slabbo[/nom]hypocrisy, in the US you can work at age 14 you know that right?[/citation]
Really? You can get a job in industrial manufacturing at 14? Learn to read, I clearly drew a line between acceptable work for children and unacceptable work. There are plenty of things a 14 year old can safely do. Working at Foxconn is not on that list, despite the countless children Foxconn has employed performing the same work as the adults, frequently with the same hours.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704816604576335262591187804.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/business/global/foxconn-riot-underscores-labor-rift-in-china.html?_r=0
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/foxconn-riot-in-china-unlikely-to-be-the-last-experts-say/2012/09/25/1e6828b8-071c-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html
I guess you see stuff in the news about well run companies all the time.
Who could forget the infamous HP riots of 1989, or the Sun Microsystems riot of 2008? Oh wait, it's just Foxconn that abuses its workers so badly that it causes riots. My bad, I thought you said something intelligent for once. Won't make that mistake again.
I also hear that workplace attire has little to do with whether or not the work is suitable for children, and also that Foxconn doesn't manufacture semiconductors but rather assembles products out of semiconductors.
Really? You can get a job in industrial manufacturing at 14? Learn to read, I clearly drew a line between acceptable work for children and unacceptable work. There are plenty of things a 14 year old can safely do. Working at Foxconn is not on that list, despite the countless children Foxconn has employed performing the same work as the adults, frequently with the same hours.
Who said anything about supervision? I fail to see how Foxconn observing its own employees prevents Foxconn from abusing said employees. I mean, they kind of have a history of doing exactly that, then lying about it and employing more children.
Yeah, just like you can bet your ass that they know the kids assigned to them from a school are kids?
Emphasis added, because what the fuck are you smoking?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704816604576335262591187804.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/business/global/foxconn-riot-underscores-labor-rift-in-china.html?_r=0
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/foxconn-riot-in-china-unlikely-to-be-the-last-experts-say/2012/09/25/1e6828b8-071c-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html
I guess you see stuff in the news about well run companies all the time.
...or this...
Who could forget the infamous HP riots of 1989, or the Sun Microsystems riot of 2008? Oh wait, it's just Foxconn that abuses its workers so badly that it causes riots. My bad, I thought you said something intelligent for once. Won't make that mistake again.
Yes. Have you ever been to Foxconn? Did you happen to notice, among the dozens of other serious labor law violations (detailed in a wonderful report I'd encourage you to read before extolling the virtues of child labor at Foxconn), the improper ventilation for aluminum dust? I hear it killed three people wearing smocks and maimed about a dozen more. Turns out a smock isn't very good protection against a superheated ball of fire and slag that your employer's consistent pattern of negligence created.
I also hear that workplace attire has little to do with whether or not the work is suitable for children, and also that Foxconn doesn't manufacture semiconductors but rather assembles products out of semiconductors.
QEFX
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[citation][nom]AM2A[/nom]The difference is that when you read recent articles written about Foxconn, half of them are reporting overworked employees, employee suicides, an explosion which killed a few workers and injured others, and a recent report of an employee riot. I don't know where you work, but I would hazard a guess your company doesn't have quite the same problems Foxconn does. You can argue about the accuracy or relevancy of the reports, but the sheer number of reported issues should tell you that this isn't a place you should be comfortable sending children to work. I wouldn't work there, and I certainly wouldn't send MY children to work there.[/citation]
Well that's just you.
If the kids end up making money to help support their family ... good for them.
I worked retail at 14, buddies worked in their family store (with no pay, it was just expected) since they could stand. Heck I had a huge paper route when I was 8. Hour before school, two after (two and a half on Friday) and three hours Sat & Sun. OK so less than 22 hours per week, but that's a lot for an 8 year old.
I'd also like to point out that I'm a wuss compared to the farm kids I went to school with from grade 7+. They had 40+ hours a week, except during harvest when it was closer to 80, plus school, plus 1-2 hour bus rides to / from school. I'm not saying Foxconn wasn't breaking the law or that they are a good company but I just wish more 14 year olds worked some hours ... especially the ones who have zero chance of going to college.
Well that's just you.
If the kids end up making money to help support their family ... good for them.
I worked retail at 14, buddies worked in their family store (with no pay, it was just expected) since they could stand. Heck I had a huge paper route when I was 8. Hour before school, two after (two and a half on Friday) and three hours Sat & Sun. OK so less than 22 hours per week, but that's a lot for an 8 year old.
I'd also like to point out that I'm a wuss compared to the farm kids I went to school with from grade 7+. They had 40+ hours a week, except during harvest when it was closer to 80, plus school, plus 1-2 hour bus rides to / from school. I'm not saying Foxconn wasn't breaking the law or that they are a good company but I just wish more 14 year olds worked some hours ... especially the ones who have zero chance of going to college.
Gotta love how Americans feel its within their privy to know what is acceptable for a country they've never been to, and a culture they've never experienced.
Billions of people in that country with a totally different way of life, and all you people do is constantly compare it to ours, feeling you have a right to judge.
You don't.
Billions of people in that country with a totally different way of life, and all you people do is constantly compare it to ours, feeling you have a right to judge.
You don't.
[citation][nom]timw03878[/nom]Gotta love how Americans feel its within their privy to know what is acceptable for a country they've never been to, and a culture they've never experienced.Billions of people in that country with a totally different way of life, and all you people do is constantly compare it to ours, feeling you have a right to judge.You don't.[/citation]
This isn't a culture thing, it's an exploitation thing. Oh, and it was illegal in China, too, you moron.
Would you be okay if some other culture fed live babies into meat grinders for fun on Friday nights? Used old ladies as kindling? Spray vaporized sodium cyanide into the jet stream? By your own logic, nobody has a right to criticize these behaviors, because they have "a totally different way of life." We're just supposed to accept everything every other culture does because that's their way?
Should we allow China to continue hunting countless animals into extinction because their useless, traditional Chinese medicine demands tiger bones and rhinoceros horns? Should we stand idly by as North Korea designs, builds and tests nuclear weapons, threatening the world with them? Should we allow fishermen the world over to annihilate the shark population (declined by 90% already) because Asian cultures are fond of shark fin soup?
This isn't a culture thing, it's an exploitation thing. Oh, and it was illegal in China, too, you moron.
Would you be okay if some other culture fed live babies into meat grinders for fun on Friday nights? Used old ladies as kindling? Spray vaporized sodium cyanide into the jet stream? By your own logic, nobody has a right to criticize these behaviors, because they have "a totally different way of life." We're just supposed to accept everything every other culture does because that's their way?
Should we allow China to continue hunting countless animals into extinction because their useless, traditional Chinese medicine demands tiger bones and rhinoceros horns? Should we stand idly by as North Korea designs, builds and tests nuclear weapons, threatening the world with them? Should we allow fishermen the world over to annihilate the shark population (declined by 90% already) because Asian cultures are fond of shark fin soup?
[citation][nom]willard[/nom]This isn't a culture thing, it's an exploitation thing. Oh, and it was illegal in China, too, you moron.Would you be okay if some other culture fed live babies into meat grinders for fun on Friday nights? Used old ladies as kindling? Spray vaporized sodium cyanide into the jet stream? By your own logic, nobody has a right to criticize these behaviors, because they have "a totally different way of life." We're just supposed to accept everything every other culture does because that's their way? Should we allow China to continue hunting countless animals into extinction because their useless, traditional Chinese medicine demands tiger bones and rhinoceros horns? Should we stand idly by as North Korea designs, builds and tests nuclear weapons, threatening the world with them? Should we allow fishermen the world over to annihilate the shark population (declined by 90% already) because Asian cultures are fond of shark fin soup?[/citation]
Should "we"
Time for you to enlist pal.
Lets invade china to make them stop.
oh wait.. you don't wanna go?
Then stfu.
Should "we"
Time for you to enlist pal.
Lets invade china to make them stop.
oh wait.. you don't wanna go?
Then stfu.
[citation][nom]timw03878[/nom]Should "we"Time for you to enlist pal.Lets invade china to make them stop.oh wait.. you don't wanna go? Then stfu.[/citation]
You're even stupider than I thought.
Are you aware that there are ways to impact policy in other countries that falls short of war? Maybe pick up a dictionary and flip the page that contains the word "diplomacy."
You're even stupider than I thought.
Are you aware that there are ways to impact policy in other countries that falls short of war? Maybe pick up a dictionary and flip the page that contains the word "diplomacy."
[citation][nom]willard[/nom]You're even stupider than I thought.Are you aware that there are ways to impact policy in other countries that falls short of war? Maybe pick up a dictionary and flip the page that contains the word "diplomacy."[/citation]
By all means.
Start talking.
Head over to the state department tomorrow...
Or are you gonna continue to armchair and do nothing?
By all means.
Start talking.
Head over to the state department tomorrow...
Or are you gonna continue to armchair and do nothing?
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