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NightLight
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- Dec 7, 2004
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in Belgium, an average person makes 1,970$ a month after taxes. The companies in Belgium have to pay twice that much for the worker, with contributions to the state. I can see now why they would venture in to such countries...
makaveli316
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- Jun 1, 2010
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I think there should be a law against all that.
Apple and a lot of other giants make billions of profit, but they still use a forgotten factory somewhere in China, to assemble their products, using those poor people even if not directly.
I know they are doing this, cause over there in China is cheaper, but seriously in the end what would be the difference between 800 million and 790 million in your pocket?
How could you feel richer with those 10 mills more on top of the 790 you already have?
Greedy mothafuckers....
Apple and a lot of other giants make billions of profit, but they still use a forgotten factory somewhere in China, to assemble their products, using those poor people even if not directly.
I know they are doing this, cause over there in China is cheaper, but seriously in the end what would be the difference between 800 million and 790 million in your pocket?
How could you feel richer with those 10 mills more on top of the 790 you already have?
Greedy mothafuckers....
whitelyric
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- Oct 28, 2011
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What's even worse is they are forcing the people to work those jobs! It's true, they trick the desperate poor to sign up for the jobs then keep them locked away in these "Dormitories" which are really not much more than a prison cell. I think Apple should pay for their crimes in this as well, I'd shut Apple down this instant and let it be a lesson for the rest of the tech industry.
parasite057
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- Jan 4, 2012
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[citation][nom]theabsinthehare[/nom]Note I said "If you are working the same type of job they are." These workers don't perform very skilled labor. They work a factory assembly line. That type of job here would get you minimum wage. So, minimum wage here in California is $8.00$8 x 40 Hours x 4 Weeks = $1280Rent = ~$600 per room where I liveNational average cost of food per month for a single person is between $150 and $300, so let'ts go with $200$1280 - $600 - $200 = $480So, an average person in California working a minimum wage job makes a whole $195 more a month.If you want to get really technical, China's individual income tax is 10%, while our equivalent bracket is 15%, and we also have to pay state tax. So, that same Californian actually only makes $67 more.Also, congrats on making almost $300 a day?[/citation]
Dont perform skilled labor? Have you ever seen footage of these people working? Repeating the same task as effectively as they do at the volume they produce would make them "specialists" if they worked here in the US and they wouldnt be considered unskilled labor. Secondly, Assembly line jobs here are almost always several dollars above minimum wage simply because of the training, danger and liability involved in those types of jobs. Not to mention such jobs often have unions. These arent the jobs they hand out to fast food workers.
Something else that might be worth mentioning. Even minimum wage worker in CA can manage a certain quality of life with small incomes. They can afford to live outside a dormitory in their own private dwellings, and eat what they want. Sure they may need to live with other people, but not a million of them. I imagine the food being prepped to feed tens of thousands at a time probably barely qualifies as nourishment. I cant imagine the shower and bathroom situation for that many people.
Also, somewhat irrelevant, minimum wage jobs in California are almost never full time, because at 35-40 hours a company is required to start offering benefits. Of course, none of them want to do with their unskilled wage earners. At best you are usually looking at 25-30 hours a week.
Dont perform skilled labor? Have you ever seen footage of these people working? Repeating the same task as effectively as they do at the volume they produce would make them "specialists" if they worked here in the US and they wouldnt be considered unskilled labor. Secondly, Assembly line jobs here are almost always several dollars above minimum wage simply because of the training, danger and liability involved in those types of jobs. Not to mention such jobs often have unions. These arent the jobs they hand out to fast food workers.
Something else that might be worth mentioning. Even minimum wage worker in CA can manage a certain quality of life with small incomes. They can afford to live outside a dormitory in their own private dwellings, and eat what they want. Sure they may need to live with other people, but not a million of them. I imagine the food being prepped to feed tens of thousands at a time probably barely qualifies as nourishment. I cant imagine the shower and bathroom situation for that many people.
Also, somewhat irrelevant, minimum wage jobs in California are almost never full time, because at 35-40 hours a company is required to start offering benefits. Of course, none of them want to do with their unskilled wage earners. At best you are usually looking at 25-30 hours a week.
AznCracker
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- Nov 29, 2011
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I doubt any of you guys have lived in china before. The cost of living there is really cheap. My mother and I used to live on 2400 yuan a month and we were considered well off. 1800 a month for entry level wage is a lot. They should be happy they are not gluing shoes together for 3/4 the wage.
The raise is contingent on if they pass a technical exam? I wonder how many will actually receive this raise and how long they will continue to be employed after the cameras are gone.
mitch074
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- Mar 17, 2006
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The conversion RMB => USD is a misrepresentation as the cost of living in China is far lower than in the US or in Europe - these $285 are closer to $1300 in real buying power. Considering the workers are housed, this represents a very high salary indeed in mainland China, where many people still live normally with less.
Now, this compares with living conditions 50 to 70 years ago in Europe or in the US - 6 days of work a week, 9 to 11 hours of work a day, little to no break, and 2 weeks of holidays (made mandatory by the government: one week each for Chinese New Year and National).
Last, Chinese people are still not so much into the mentality of rabid consumption - one flat screen TV+cable is sufficient, and one (compact) car per family is still nice; a flat, one truck per person and a complete home cinema are for showing off only. Not practical.
Now, OF COURSE it could be better. However, Foxconn doesn't strike me as a sweatshop of the kind you can find everywhere in China. 17 suicides for more than a million workers is rather close to the national average. The textile industry, or the small appliance industry, on the other hand...
Now, this compares with living conditions 50 to 70 years ago in Europe or in the US - 6 days of work a week, 9 to 11 hours of work a day, little to no break, and 2 weeks of holidays (made mandatory by the government: one week each for Chinese New Year and National).
Last, Chinese people are still not so much into the mentality of rabid consumption - one flat screen TV+cable is sufficient, and one (compact) car per family is still nice; a flat, one truck per person and a complete home cinema are for showing off only. Not practical.
Now, OF COURSE it could be better. However, Foxconn doesn't strike me as a sweatshop of the kind you can find everywhere in China. 17 suicides for more than a million workers is rather close to the national average. The textile industry, or the small appliance industry, on the other hand...
NuclearShadow
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- Sep 20, 2007
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Yet within three years nothing has changed that much other than the increased public eye upon them.
So why is this one something they deem worthy to be seen as a positive? They are basically admitting to outright exploiting their workers three years ago.
By "passing" they really mean winning the lottery amongst the workers and being the very select few to receive it.
[citation][nom]theabsinthehare[/nom]They don't mention that, on top of the monthly pay, Foxconn houses its employees in dormitories, and pays for their meals. Take what you make a month, subtract the amount you spend on groceries and rent, and what's left is probably pretty close to what they make, if you are working the same type of job they are.[/citation]
Yup, so essentially the $300 a month they make is all disposable income, or savings. If you make minimum wage in the USA, and have a place to rent, food to buy, electric to pay, you would likely have $300 or less (if lucky) after paying your expenses.
Yup, so essentially the $300 a month they make is all disposable income, or savings. If you make minimum wage in the USA, and have a place to rent, food to buy, electric to pay, you would likely have $300 or less (if lucky) after paying your expenses.
stalker7d7
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- Jun 20, 2010
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$350 a month for a full time job with those crappy "above average" working conditions? I can $350 a week with a part time job...
stalker7d7
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- Jun 20, 2010
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[citation][nom]stalker7d7[/nom]$350 a month for a full time job with those crappy "above average" working conditions? I can $350 a week with a part time job...[/citation]
My bad, ot just a full time job, an ALL time job.
My bad, ot just a full time job, an ALL time job.
This is what a strong labor movement does, it get the employees gains. As their standard of living goes up so does the standard of living for everyone else. But in America we don't want a strong labor force, we want you to work until you drop dead.
This is the 3rd raise i think they have gotten in a year.
This is the 3rd raise i think they have gotten in a year.
[citation][nom]theabsinthehare[/nom]They don't mention that, on top of the monthly pay, Foxconn houses its employees in dormitories, and pays for their meals. Take what you make a month, subtract the amount you spend on groceries and rent, and what's left is probably pretty close to what they make, if you are working the same type of job they are.[/citation]
are you seriously trying to defend Foxconn or you just trolling?
I was in the Army and the same logic applies that you just used above. They pay for your food and give you a room to share with someone else and pay you a lot less. The Army even passes out a document to say "This is the equivalent if you worked a regular job". No soldier feels the comparison is fair and as a civilian you have more freedom, get more living space and better food.
and I saw you start talking about tax rates, don't go down that hole because there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. It's like the right wingers in the states now going around saying half the country pays no taxes, they must be free loading bums. When the reality is they make so little that our tax laws give than that much of a break. If the median family of 4 paid 15% out of their 50k income in the states you would have riots.
All people want is a chance at making a decent living. Capitalism does not like that and right wingers don't like that. This is one of the biggest political fights in the United States. While other countries get better we are regressing and undoing all the good the New Deal and The Great Society did. Poor Chinese people one of these days will really take to the streets, thousands if not millions will die...but what if they don't give up. will the Chinese government kill its whole population?
are you seriously trying to defend Foxconn or you just trolling?
I was in the Army and the same logic applies that you just used above. They pay for your food and give you a room to share with someone else and pay you a lot less. The Army even passes out a document to say "This is the equivalent if you worked a regular job". No soldier feels the comparison is fair and as a civilian you have more freedom, get more living space and better food.
and I saw you start talking about tax rates, don't go down that hole because there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. It's like the right wingers in the states now going around saying half the country pays no taxes, they must be free loading bums. When the reality is they make so little that our tax laws give than that much of a break. If the median family of 4 paid 15% out of their 50k income in the states you would have riots.
All people want is a chance at making a decent living. Capitalism does not like that and right wingers don't like that. This is one of the biggest political fights in the United States. While other countries get better we are regressing and undoing all the good the New Deal and The Great Society did. Poor Chinese people one of these days will really take to the streets, thousands if not millions will die...but what if they don't give up. will the Chinese government kill its whole population?
[citation][nom]inthere[/nom]It'll take a lot more pay raises to make them start manufacturing in America again[/citation]
For mass market manufacturing, you are correct. But smaller scale manufacturing is already coming back to the US. When you factor in the cost of doing business overseas, including shipping and quality control, it does not make as much sense to contract with Chinese manufacturers as it used to for small scale products. US labor still can't compete with Chinese labor on cost, nor should we try. But the overall cost of manufacturing includes many other costs in addition to labor.
For mass market manufacturing, you are correct. But smaller scale manufacturing is already coming back to the US. When you factor in the cost of doing business overseas, including shipping and quality control, it does not make as much sense to contract with Chinese manufacturers as it used to for small scale products. US labor still can't compete with Chinese labor on cost, nor should we try. But the overall cost of manufacturing includes many other costs in addition to labor.
UmeNNis
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- Feb 20, 2007
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[citation][nom]gsacks[/nom]For mass market manufacturing, you are correct. But smaller scale manufacturing is already coming back to the US. When you factor in the cost of doing business overseas, including shipping and quality control, it does not make as much sense to contract with Chinese manufacturers as it used to for small scale products. US labor still can't compete with Chinese labor on cost, nor should we try. But the overall cost of manufacturing includes many other costs in addition to labor.[/citation]
Unfortunately (from the US employee perspective) shipping costs and import tariffs continue to decline so there isn't as much incentive for companies to move production back as one might think.
Unfortunately (from the US employee perspective) shipping costs and import tariffs continue to decline so there isn't as much incentive for companies to move production back as one might think.
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]Haserath[/nom]I think that was intentional. The people in the picture just look sad...I still think this Foxconn thing has been blown way out of proportion though. 1 million workers with 17 suicides. I'd bet in my hometown of about 350,000 people there were more suicides then that.[/citation]
Detroit cops commit suicide at a higher rate than Foxconn workers, where are the bleeding hearts for them?
Detroit cops commit suicide at a higher rate than Foxconn workers, where are the bleeding hearts for them?
What everyone is forgetting in this whole thing are the hours. Quotes from real ex-Foxconn workers say they work 60+hrs a week without overtime pay. It is not hourly it is salary pay. Most US workers including me work 60+ hrs but I get paid significantly more for doing such. Yes room/board is covered, but what life is working so much every day and never getting anything for it. To make it more interesting, you sign a contract that if you quit within the first year that you will be charged one months wage. If you stay for one year you get a one month wage bonus. . . YAY!
If it was so great based on everyone here saying how great the pay is compared to the US because of housing paid for then why would hundreds say they would commit mass suicide if nothing is done. A person in the US may only make $300-$400 a month after bills but at least the living conditions here are one of the best in all the world. There's is crap. What do you think they get for food and room. We pay $600 for a 1 bedroom apt with kitchen, living room and such and cook what we want. They pay nothing, living in a dorm room the size of 250 sq. ft and probably only get the cheapest food cooked that is the same everyday. How would you like it if you could only eat Spagetti O's every meal for a year.
Take this case and know that elsewhere in China pay is 1/3 of that. Give it 10 years and you will see a workers revolution beyond the likes anyone can think of. I truly believe in what Obama said that if there was a level playing field the US would show to be the best workers.
If it was so great based on everyone here saying how great the pay is compared to the US because of housing paid for then why would hundreds say they would commit mass suicide if nothing is done. A person in the US may only make $300-$400 a month after bills but at least the living conditions here are one of the best in all the world. There's is crap. What do you think they get for food and room. We pay $600 for a 1 bedroom apt with kitchen, living room and such and cook what we want. They pay nothing, living in a dorm room the size of 250 sq. ft and probably only get the cheapest food cooked that is the same everyday. How would you like it if you could only eat Spagetti O's every meal for a year.
Take this case and know that elsewhere in China pay is 1/3 of that. Give it 10 years and you will see a workers revolution beyond the likes anyone can think of. I truly believe in what Obama said that if there was a level playing field the US would show to be the best workers.
dare we tell them what the minimum wage here in america is to flip burgers is 4 times higher then what they make with a technical/university degree?
they are going to turn into lemmings when they find out how much america pays people to be on welfare!
[citation][nom]theabsinthehare[/nom]Note I said "If you are working the same type of job they are." These workers don't perform very skilled labor. They work a factory assembly line. That type of job here would get you minimum wage. So, minimum wage here in California is $8.00$8 x 40 Hours x 4 Weeks = $1280Rent = ~$600 per room where I liveNational average cost of food per month for a single person is between $150 and $300, so let'ts go with $200$1280 - $600 - $200 = $480So, an average person in California working a minimum wage job makes a whole $195 more a month.If you want to get really technical, China's individual income tax is 10%, while our equivalent bracket is 15%, and we also have to pay state tax. So, that same Californian actually only makes $67 more.Also, congrats on making almost $300 a day?[/citation]
You forget that foxconn workers have to pay for food and board. They don't get a free ride or expect free gifts from their employers. And any employee in america union or not working in a legal institution gets protection under the law that prevents working them like slaves. They do you work without rest until arthritis overcomes their ability to work then get tossed out into the streets.
I will not argue minimum wage anywhere allows for decent living but america even on minimum will always be better then working at foxconn.
You forget that foxconn workers have to pay for food and board. They don't get a free ride or expect free gifts from their employers. And any employee in america union or not working in a legal institution gets protection under the law that prevents working them like slaves. They do you work without rest until arthritis overcomes their ability to work then get tossed out into the streets.
I will not argue minimum wage anywhere allows for decent living but america even on minimum will always be better then working at foxconn.
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