French Court Says Apple Store Staff Can't Work Late Nights

[techtate]

Employers don't force you to do anything ,they pay you to do it. You are there so that your employer can make a profit by combining your labor with their capital. French labor laws are a barrier to efficient use of human capital, hence why they are now being overhauled because they are doing harm to the economy. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/08/business/global/08iht-frenchjobs08.html?_r=0 http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-tire-ceo-french-gov-t-how-stupid-do-you-think-we-are

 

[house70]

I think a business like Apple could afford to pay a cleaning firm to do exactly that, instead of having the employees do the cleaning. Cheapskates...
Cleaning up your own desk should not take more than a few minutes, but cleaning up the house is time-consuming. Hire a company to do that!

 

[hetneo]

Looks like bunch of Americans here know sqwat about France labor laws. Here's the problem in nutshel, it's not about ppl's right to work over time, it's not about right of Apple to schedule work hours as they wish. Problem is that in France employee has to pay night shift workers more per hour than day shift workers, by law, and if they work 3 nights in row they must have next day off. Apple was paying night shift workers at day shift rates, thus screwing employees.

 

[hetneo]

[citation][nom]techtate[/nom]Employers don't force you to do anything ,they pay you to do it. You are there so that your employer can make a profit by combining your labor with their capital. French labor laws are a barrier to efficient use of human capital, hence why they are now being overhauled because they are doing harm to the economy. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/08/ [...] .html?_r=0 http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us [...] ink-we-are[/citation]
You mean more efficient exploitation of slaves?

 

[Celestial88]

[citation][nom]sykozis[/nom]We have a problem with France's labor laws now? The law says (thanks Irrenhaus for that lengthy post btw) that employees can not work between 9pm and 6am unless they're responsible for maintaining economic activities (managing bank transfers, financial ledgers, sales tracking, etc) or they're providing social services (tech support, customer assistance, counseling, etc). Nowhere does that include cleaning up a store as that is neither considered "maintaining economic activities" nor "providing social services". I don't see where exactly the issue is with such laws.... Most states in the US have such screwed up labor laws that an employee can be fired for no reason at all. "Right to work" states are the worst. Most laws are intended to protect the company from the employee and the few laws intended to protect the employee....have loopholes intentionally built in to protect the employer from the employee, thus invalidating the laws anyway. At least France appears to actually care about it's citizens...unlike the US....[/citation]

Totally agree.

 

[blurr91]

[citation][nom]hetneo[/nom]You mean more efficient exploitation of slaves?[/citation]

No one forced these people to work at gun point. They are free to leave. Apple is free to ask employees to work more. Apple is free to look for someone else if one refuses to work. Employees are free to look for other employers. That's how freedom works, which is not how France works.

 

[nebun]

i pity the french

 

[COLGeek]

As long as the French make these laws, it is their call on how to enforce them. Companies who do business there just have to deal with it. No big deal.

Too bad for the workers, the extra hours probably helped their bottom lines a fair amount. None of them are getting rich working in an Apple Store.

 

[brucek2]

[citation][nom]twelve25[/nom]The only reason companies make more money by staying open late is because other stores are also open. If no stores are open late, then there is no loss of business, because they can't take it elsewhere. They will just be back during business hours.[/citation]
Not true. One of the main points of glamor/brand stores like Apple's is to draw in traffic and generate interest they might not otherwise have. Ie you've finished a nice dinner out, you're strolling down the main street, and you pop in just as something to do.

If all their sales were only to motivated customers who knew what they wanted, they could just dispense with the stores altogether and make you send in a fax form.

Also, not everybody is free during the day. There are stories enough of people not getting medical care they need because they feel they can't miss work to do it. If you're willing to not get potentially life saving medical attention, you're probably willing to not buy that ipod.

 

[frombehind]

french complaing about long working days... i guess they must be Le tired....

 

[toadhammer]

[citation][nom]Irrenhaus[/nom]France work laws:Working timeIn France, the legal length of the working week is 35 hours in all types of companies. ...[/citation]The way I've always looked at the French labor laws, is that it's just a different way of addressing unemployment. Reduce the number of hours for some employees, and you're opening up a new position.

Yes, there are side effects in terms of quality of life, earnings limitations, etc. Just a different approach, perhaps focused more on the society than the individual.

 

[mapesdhs]

Sad fact is, Europe is the lazy man of the world. We have the shortest working hours of any
continent. People in Asia work much longer hours, and save more. It all feeds through to
productivity, etc.

Ian.

 

[tobalaz]

[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]Yeah, that's one of the nasty problems in tip-reliant positions. On the other hand, waiters at successful restaurants tend to make much more money, overall, than the high-hourly-waged workers who might otherwise be tasked with cleaning the front of the house (dishwashers).Anyway, there's no profit in opening the Apple store early (say, before 10am), and cleanup doesn't take a standardized amount of time, so any way you slice it, the French court's decision limits the hours Apple's employees can realistically get paid to work.[/citation]
Wait, you're telling me France HAS an economy?
That's news to me!

 

[alidan]

[citation][nom]tramit[/nom]If you are still getting paid to work those clean up shifts, I don't see a problem. I would like to work more for a little more cash if I needed to.[/citation]
no, its more of a if you dont work as long as i want you do i will find someone who will...

i hate those practices

 

[house70]

[citation][nom]house70[/nom]I think a business like Apple could afford to pay a cleaning firm to do exactly that, instead of having the employees do the cleaning. Cheapskates...Cleaning up your own desk should not take more than a few minutes, but cleaning up the house is time-consuming. Hire a company to do that![/citation]

You do realize it would cost Apple less to have a cleaning firm do the work....

You do realize you make no sense. A separate company is always more expensive than telling your employees they don't get to go home until they've cleaned up the store. Fact is, Apple tried to pull a quick extra job on the employees, like cleaning the store would be a trivial matter that doesn't need a lot of effort. Even if the employees were paid extra couple of hours, it still would be much cheaper than paying a specialized cleaner.
When you'll get to have your own business, try to do that and see what happens, which is cheaper etc. I do own a business, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[shin0bi272]

All I can add is ... [sarcasm] yaaay socialism eh comrades? [/sarcasm]

 

[Non-Euclidean]

"We are French! We refuse to work after dark when we should be smoking cigarettes and spreading social diseases! This is an outrage!"