Question Front USB-C port question

smalltech

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Hi, would there be any difference to a USB-C device if it is plugged into A vs B? Would A and B supply the exact same specifications to the device?

A. USB-C device is plugged into "[USB-A male to USB-C female] adapter plugged into PC case top front USB-A port"

B. USB-C device is plugged into "PC case top front USB-C port"

Thanks
 
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Paperdoc

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The quality of the adapter used is only part of the answer. NOTE this: the Type A socket and plug system for USB 3.2 is NOT the same as the ones for older USB2. To identify, typically USB2 connectors have BLACK plasic inserts inside to support contacts, while USB3 Type A have BLUE plastic inside.

FIRST part is this: what can the controller chip on the mobo and the HEADER used to feed those front panel sockets do? ALL USB 3 devices now are labelled as part of a USB 3.2 system with a Genn suffix attached. Gen1 is the original USB3 system that can transfer data between controller and device at up to 5 Gb/s, and any USB 3.2 Type A socket / connector system OR any Type C system can handle that data rate. Gen2 can communicate at up to 10 Gb/s and a Type A system MAY or may NOT handle that. However, a Type C socket / connector CAN. Gen2x2 can go up to 20 Gb/s and ONLY a Type C system can do that. So the first item to determine is what speed the mobo HEADER (and controller chip that feeds it) is rated for - look in your mobo manual and verify WHICH mobo header is used for the cable up to the front panel.

On a mobo, the common USB 3.2 header for both Gen1 and Gen2 actually contains TWO separate USB 3.2 ports from a single controller, so the cable from it can feed TWO front panel sockets of the SAME speed rating. If the Controller can do only Gen1 performance, then it does not matter which socket is used because both Type A and type C connectors can do that.

If the mobo header / chip are rated for Gen2 performance, ideally the front panel sockets fed from that header BOTH should be Type C. However, just to make life easy for users who already have several devices with Type A plugs on their cables, many case makers make at least ONE of those front panel sockets Type A. If you are using a device that can only work at the Gen1 speed anyway, this will make no difference. IF you have a Gen2 device and do as you suggest - that is, use an adapter to convert the Type A socket to a Type C socket and then run a Type C cable to your device, that WILL work for sure at the Gen1 speed, and MAY work at the Gen2 speed. BUT if you use that same Type C cable to connect your Gen2 device to the front Type C socket, then it very definitely SHOULD be able to work at the Gen2 speed.

IF your mobo has a Gen2x2 header it will look very different. This header is called a Type E mobo header. To use it you need the CASE to come with a very different connector and cable to reach up to the front panel. IF you have that it certainly should be a Type C socket on the front. And there's another difference here: that mobo Type E header fed by a Gen3 Controller has only ONE Gen2x2 port, so it can feed only ONE front panel Type C socket.

Important note: all these speed specs are the max data transfer rates possible as determined by the mobo controller chip and matching rating of the user device plugged in. These all were designed specifically to be FASTER than the actual performance ability of the device so that the COMMUNICATION subsystem will never limit the device's performance. For example, there are NO classic mechanical hard drives (with spinning disks and moving heads on arms) that can move those parts fast enough to supply data at rates over 5 Gb/s. (Most of these do not exceed 3 Gb/s, or SATA II speeds). There are SOME SSD-type units that can beat 5 Gb/s but not over 10 Gb/s. I'm not sure how many devices are on the market yet of ANY type that get to 20 Gb/s.

So, you need to consider the speed rating (specified by the Genn label) of the mobo header (and the controller chip fed by it) and of the device you are plugging in. THEN you look at the socket and connector type you have for them. If anything is Gen1 rated, that's the max data transfer rate you can get. IF all three are Gen2 rated, you should get that IF you use the Type C connectors, but you MIGHT get that with the Type A Socket, adapter, etc. IF all three are Gen2x2 rated (I doubt you have that) you MUST be using the Type C Socket, and that MUST be fed from the Type E mobo header and a Gen2x2 Controller on the mobo.

If you need help sorting out the details of YOUR system OP, post back here the maker and exact model of your MOBO and of your CASE.
 
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Hi, would there be any difference to a USB-C device if it is plugged into A vs B? Would A and B supply the exact same specifications to the device?

A. USB-C device is plugged into "[USB-A male to USB-C female] adapter plugged into PC case top front USB-A port"

B. USB-C device is plugged into "PC case top front USB-C port"

Thanks
I would depend on the motherboard connected to the ports and the case's connections. On modern motherboards and cases, the usb A ports are now usually USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports with a speed of 10 Gbit/s. The whole point of the usb C port on the case front is that its now usually USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which has a speed of 20 Gbit/s. So with most motherboards and cases the usb C port is twice as fast. Depending on your motherboard the usb C port may also provide higher wattage for charging devices. If you want to name a specific motherboard make and model and a specific case make and model more specific information can be supplied. Or you could just read the manuals for your motherboard and case.
 
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smalltech

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If you need help sorting out the details of YOUR system OP, post back here the maker and exact model of your MOBO and of your CASE.

If you want to name a specific motherboard make and model and a specific case make and model more specific information can be supplied.

This is the motherboard: Asus B550M-A Prime Wi-Fi II & Bluetooth (DDR4) https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-b550m-a-wi-fi/

This is the case: Montech Air 100 ARGB https://www.montechpc.com/en/products_detail.php?nid=225

I might consider other cases below but they are bigger so I prefer Montech Air 100 ARGB listed above.
 
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smalltech

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I saw the following USB hubs products, if I plug in a USB hub into the pc case front USB-A port, would I be able to connect the maximum devices (to the hub ports) that the hub has and use all devices at the same time?

For example if [1 USB-A becomes 3 USB-A and 2 USB-C], would I be able to plug in total 5 devices (3 USB-A and 2 USB-C devices) into the hub and use all 5 devices at the same time?

USB hubs:

1 USB-A becomes 3 USB-A and 2 USB-C https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Multiport-Adapter-Powered-Desktop/dp/B0C1YBZRJC/ref=sr_1_6

1 USB-A becomes 4 USB-A and 1 USB-C https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Ultra-Slim-Supported-multiport-Compatible/dp/B08Y8CJKJC/ref=sr_1_4

1 USB-A becomes 4 USB-A https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Splitter-Ultra-Slim-Expander-Compatible/dp/B0CD1BHXPZ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa
 
This is the motherboard: Asus B550M-A Prime Wi-Fi II & Bluetooth (DDR4) https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-b550m-a-wi-fi/

This is the case: Montech Air 100 ARGB https://www.montechpc.com/en/products_detail.php?nid=225
OK, so your motherboard's fastest output ports are that are connected to the front of the case are USB 3.2 Gen 1 which is 5 Gbps speed. Those would be the 2 blue ports on the top of the case. So if doesn't matter what type of connector you plug into those ports you're still only going to get 5 Gbps. BUT on the back of your motherboard you have 2 USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports which are 10 Gbps and twice as fast. They're the teal blue ports on the back panel and those are the ones that you would want to use. If you choose to use any hub to expand your port capacity it should be connected to the teal blue ports on the back of the computer for fastest speed. If you want a hub that will support 5 devices you may want to consider one with its own power supply and dedicated 10 Gbps ports like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Rosonway-Ind...words=usb+3.1+gen+2+hub&qid=1707642208&sr=8-4
 
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smalltech

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OK, so your motherboard's fastest output ports are that are connected to the front of the case are USB 3.2 Gen 1 which is 5 Gbps speed. Those would be the 2 blue ports on the top of the case. So if doesn't matter what type of connector you plug into those ports you're still only going to get 5 Gbps. BUT on the back of your motherboard you have 2 USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports which are 10 Gbps and twice as fast. They're the teal blue ports on the back panel and those are the ones that you would want to use. If you choose to use any hub to expand your port capacity it should be connected to the teal blue ports on the back of the computer for fastest speed. If you want a hub that will support 5 devices you may want to consider one with its own power supply and dedicated 10 Gbps ports like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Rosonway-Ind...words=usb+3.1+gen+2+hub&qid=1707642208&sr=8-4

Q1. Can those hubs without power supply use 5 devices at the same time? What happens if you use 5 devices at the same time? Example hub without power supply: 1 USB-A becomes 3 USB-A and 2 USB-C https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Multiport-Adapter-Powered-Desktop/dp/B0C1YBZRJC/ref=sr_1_6

Q2. Does it mean if a hub has its own power supply it can use all ports at the hub at the same time?
https://www.amazon.com/Rosonway-Ind...words=usb+3.1+gen+2+hub&qid=1707642208&sr=8-4 this hub with power supply would it be able to use 7 devices at the same time?
 

Paperdoc

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OK, the mobo and case info makes things simpler. The case info does not specify much about its USB sockets beyond a photo showing its top has TWO USB 3.2 sockets of Type A (Blue), and ONE USB2 socket Type A (Black). The MOBO manual makes it clear it has ONE USB 3.2 header at the front edge near the middle, and TWO USB2 headers side-by-side at the bottom edge middle. So to feed the top two USB 3.2 sockets of your case you will plug its cable into that front edge header and that gives you two USB 3.2 Gen1 (5 Gb/s) ports. The Type A sockets are fully capable of that, and using an adapter to plug in your Type C cable to your device will work just fine. No matter what cable type you use nor what the ratings of your device are, these sockets can only deliver performance at the Gen1 level. You cannot convert them to higher-speed versions.

There will be a second cable in the case that feeds the single USB2 socket (Black) on the top. Plug that into one of the two USB2 headers if you need that top USB2 socket to work. Don't forget, however, that you CAN plug any USB2 device into a USB 3.2 socket (if one is free to use) and it WILL work at the slower USB2 speed. (See also below.)

Further on the topic of USB 3.2 sockets. On the mobo rear panel (see manual p. 1-6) there are two USB 3.2 Gen2 sockets (10 Gb/s) with Key No. 9. These are Type A, so they may actually allow use to 10 Gb/s, but may run slower. So THIS is where you can plug in actual Gen2 devices if you have any. There also are two groups of 2 each (total 4) sockets of the Gen1 rating with Key No. 6 that will deliver up to 5 Gb/s.

There are no USB2 sockets on the rear panel, so you have no immediate access to the two USB2 headers on the mobo. You can arrange to use those for little cash IF you have one rear PCIe slot not in use. You can get a simple adapter plate that fits into that unused slot opening with two USB2 Type A sockets on it and a cable that plugs into one mobo header.

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Female-Plate-Adapter-USBPLATE/dp/B0000511LW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2T7OMXTWVGSM2&keywords=usb2+socket+plate&qid=1707672980&sprefix=usb2+socket+plate,aps,101&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Note in user comments that this one seeems to have a short cable to reach the mobo.

You can even get such a plate with FOUR USB2 sockets and two cables.

https://www.amazon.com/Antrader-Adapter-Female-Motherboard-Extender/dp/B07FDRX3Q3/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2T7OMXTWVGSM2&keywords=usb2+socket+plate&qid=1707673551&sprefix=usb2+socket+plate,aps,101&sr=8-6

I have one like this (probably not the same maker, though). However, to use this one you need to plug BOTH cables into the two mobo headers, meaning you could not also plug in the case's cable to the top USB2 (Black) socket. But using this gives you all four possible USB2 Type A sockets your mobo headers can provide, all located on the rear of your case.

See my next post regarding your queries about Hubs and power.
 
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Q1. Can those hubs without power supply use 5 devices at the same time? What happens if you use 5 devices at the same time? Example hub without power supply: 1 USB-A becomes 3 USB-A and 2 USB-C https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Multiport-Adapter-Powered-Desktop/dp/B0C1YBZRJC/ref=sr_1_6

Q2. Does it mean if a hub has its own power supply it can use all ports at the hub at the same time?
https://www.amazon.com/Rosonway-Ind...words=usb+3.1+gen+2+hub&qid=1707642208&sr=8-4 this hub with power supply would it be able to use 7 devices at the same time?
The hub supplies 24 watts of power. So you can add up the power requirements of all 7 devices you're planning on connecting and see if that's less than 24 watts.
 
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Paperdoc

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This deals with USB 3.2 Hubs and power.

The standard USB 3.2 port must provide power at 5 VDC up to 0.9 A current to any device attached. If you use an UNpowered Hub to connect several devices to a single port, they all must share that power limit. For some things like mice and keyboards that works because these devices use little power each. However, many devices use more. At the limit all "Laptop Hard Drives" sold for use on USB 3.2 ports are designed particularly to work just within the 0.9 A limit. They do things like slower rotation speed of the disks, etc (and hence slightly slower data transfer rates) to ensure they DO work properly. (In the older USB2 system the current limit was smaller, and there were NO "Laptop Hard Drives" of that era that could work without some extra power arrangement.) Thus, if you want to use a variety of USB 3.2 devices on one port with a Hub, you normally NEED a Hub that comes with its own power supply "brick" AND it must be able to provide all that power for ALL of its output ports.

In doing the calculations for this, recognize that this means 0.9 A per port at max. For example, a 7-port Hub might require up to 6.3 A current from its power supply unit. First wrinkle here: many Hubs also come with "Charging Ports". Some of these are normal USB 3.2 ports that can also provide more than normal power. Others are ONLY for charging at higher currents, but cannot do ANY data transfers. Either way, whatever these ports specify, their current needs must be added to those of the other Standard ports on the Hub.

Second wrinkle. Under normal uses NOT all of the devices plugged into a Hub are in full use simultaneously. For example, you might have a keyboard, a mouse, and three Laptop Hard Drives plugged in (5 ports at 0.9 A each = 4.5 A max), but the real load may be only half that because some units are just "idling". So whatever the MAX calculation shows (ports x 0.9 A), the power supply unit normally is adequate if it can provide 60% or more of that UNLESS you know your use pattern will be higher. But be sure to take into account any Charging Ports, too.

Third wrinkle. MANY power supply modules provide power at 12 VDC to the Hub, and the Hub itself converts that to 5 VDC with a change in Amps capacity. For this the key factor is that power is measured in WATTS, and WATTS = VOLTS x AMPS. So the max POWER need of one standard USB 3.2 port is 5v x 0.9A = 4.5 W. Meanwhile the power supply unit comes with a spec of max output in Watts, often 35 W or so. A 7-port Hub with NO Charging Ports needs 7 x 4.5 W = 31.5 W max. IF you de-rate that to 70% to account for non-simultaneous use, that Hub needs at least 22 W from its power "brick".

The Rosonway Hub linked above has a power supply module rated at 12 VDC 2.0 A max, or 24 W. That would be just enough for its seven ports at the 70% de-rated power needs. It has no Charging Ports, so that is not a factor. Among its ports, three are rated for USB 3.2 Gen2 speed (one Type A, two Type C), and the other four (mis-labelled as USB 3 in the descriptive text) are Gen1 Type A. (This part has no impact on power use - it impacts only the speed of the devices you may connect and expect to achieve higher speeds. And it means this Hub MUST be connected to a host port on the computer able to do at least the Gen2 speed.) It also has an interesting feature. EACH port has its own switch to turn it Off or On with an indicator LED, so you could actually disconnect a device that stays plugged in if you want to be sure the Hub's power limit is not violated.

I note another useful feature. The cable of this Hub that plugs into the computer host USB 3.2 port has BOTH a Type A and a Type C plug. Ideally you would use the Type C into a genuine Gen2 Type C socket to ensure full Gen2 performance, but you CAN use it with a Type A host socket if necessary.

IF you think the power capability of that Hub is a limit for your plans, look at this model from the same maker.

https://www.amazon.com/Rosonway-Charging-Aluminum-Splitter-RSH-A10QPD/dp/B0CB82NR5C/ref=sr_1_14?crid=2QI7DYV7V41IO&keywords=powered+usb+3.2+gen+2+hub&qid=1707678387&sprefix=powered+usb+3.2+gen+2+hub,aps,91&sr=8-14

It has very similar features but adds three Charging Ports (charging only if I read it right) and a power supply rated for 60W. So lots of power, enough to actually use the charging-only ports if you need them, OR more power to normal data ports but the same number of those.
 
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smalltech

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Further on the topic of USB 3.2 sockets. On the mobo rear panel (see manual p. 1-6) there are two F sockets (10 Gb/s) with Key No. 9. These are Type A, so they may actually allow use to 10 Gb/s, but may run slower. So THIS is where you can plug in actual Gen2 devices if you have any. There also are two groups of 2 each (total 4) sockets of the Gen1 rating with Key No. 6 that will deliver up to 5 Gb/s.
"These are Type A, so they may actually allow use to 10 Gb/s, but may run slower." What does this mean? Why is it "may actually allow use to 10 Gb/s"? "may run slower" than what?

I was thinking if the device supports USB 3.2 Gen 2, if I plug it into USB 3.2 Gen 2 socket it will be able to run at 10 Gb/s so it will be faster (not slower like you mentioned) than any older USB Gen to transfer files (e.g. transfer photo from phone)?
 

Paperdoc

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Well, ALL USB 3.2 versions are MUCH faster than the older USB2 system. The USB people say this. A USB 3.2 Type A socket and plug system is not guaranteed to achieve 10 Gb/s max, although it might get close. However, a Type C socket and connector WILL for sure allow up to 10 Gb/s. In fact, Type C will work up to 20 Gb/s and so is required for a Gen2x2 connection.

Again, all these speeds depend on whether the mobo header (and its chip) AND the device AND the cable / connectors are spec'd for those speeds. You cannot "upgrade" a slower port to a faster one just by using a different connector system. Also to reiterate, the actual speed you achieve is very likely to be less than the max rating of the port because the device itself (e.g. a hard drive or an SSD or a camera) has a speed limit slower than the USB 3.2 port max.
 
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