Gamers say "There's No point to conroe"

[JonathanDeane]

well once vista comes out wont alot of people not even want the nvidia 7 series cards because of directx 10. When the directx 10 come out theyll blow the directx9 cards out of the water.

yes, and $1000 cpu's will still not be need for gaming 8)

yeah 1000$ now but in the future it will be cheaper and it will be required. The tech is always moving foreward and always will ! I never discourage people from buying the 1000$ CPU's if they want them thats there buisness.

Best comparison I have personal experience with is doing a call for some old man who had RoadRunner.... said "I use it to check my email" I didnt say "hey thats pointless dial up would be 75% cheaper and be just as good" I just corrected his issue and went on with my day

 

[corvetteguy]

Maybe we should start a sticky called "How to recommend responsibly" 8)

 

[turpit]

yes, i understand that, but in that time (12-18 months), we will have better cheaper chips. Now if someone buys a $1000 chip now, in 18 months it probably won't be as good as a mid-low range chip then. By buying a cheaper($200) chip now, then in a year -18 moths buy another $200 chip, you'll be ahead, and have been no worse for wear in between. Thats also my point about people always recommending conroe. It probably won't be a upgradeable as AM2, and thats why you'll need a $1000 chip to last far enough. With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

But how does that help the people who cant wait? Im not talking about those who lack patience, but those who have an actual need. Some people have to upgrade now. I have this discussion all the time with people at work who ask me about upgrading/building/buying systems. I always tell them, wait as long as you can. Sooner or later though, they cant wait any more and have to buy. Prices are always going to fall, relativily speaking, but that true with many retail consumer items.

This year has been the first time there were no significant CPU price drops from Jan to June. The X2 3800 hovered at $289 to $292 for six months. I've never seen a CPU hold its retail price that long. Some Athlon XP CPU and mobo prices had actally gone up. The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.

As for AM2 being more upgradable than Conroe, I doubt it. AM2 is already 1/2 to 1/3 of the way through its life cycle. Its Uarch is near its peak in terms of how much more performance AMD can squeak out of it, while Conroe is still in its infancy. AMD needs to come up with something new pretty quick or find themselves relegated to the low performance bargain processor catagory. On the other hand, I would not be suprised to see Intel releaseing factory 4GHz Core 2's next year. Its just a matter of life cycle timing.

Right now, IMO, the best route to go is to buy the at the high end of the price/performance CPU curve (C2D 6600) and short change the videocard.


Peace

 

[corvetteguy]

well once vista comes out wont alot of people not even want the nvidia 7 series cards because of directx 10. When the directx 10 come out theyll blow the directx9 cards out of the water.

yes, and $1000 cpu's will still not be need for gaming 8)

yeah 1000$ now but in the future it will be cheaper and it will be required. The tech is always moving foreward and always will ! I never discourage people from buying the 1000$ CPU's if they want them thats there buisness.

Best comparison I have personal experience with is doing a call for some old man who had RoadRunner.... said "I use it to check my email" I didnt say "hey thats pointless dial up would be 75% cheaper and be just as good" I just corrected his issue and went on with my day

But thats why you don't buy $1000 chips. You buy a mid range chip now, then another when you need it.

Thats my point, that man. You probably know you shoulda told him to get dial-up, but you didn't care too much and let him get it. Thats the way people act on this forum. 🙁

 

[NMDante]

well in that situation the person should tell them that they don't need an x6800 and an e6600 will do the same for half the price. If the person stil wants it, you've done your best, but they can't be helped. But if they do downgrade slightly, you've saved them lots if money.

That's just it. You can sway someone from going top of the line, but if they want it, and have the means to get it, why should anyone stop them from spending their own money.

You saved them money? Why? It's not your money. If you give your opinion, and they say, "Well, I'm going with X6800 or FX-62.", who cares after that if you can save them money? I mean, really? If someone is willing to drop that much on a CPU, you think they will run a single ATI 9600 PRO? No way. They are mostly likely going SLI/Crossfire setup with tons of RAM, and Raptor drives. Why? Again, it's their decision to spend, not yours or mine.

I don't see why you think forum posters need to be financial advisors for people who really don't care for opinions on how they spend their money. If they want a setup in a certain budget, of course top of the line is probably out of the question. But if someone asks, "What would be your dream system?", you'd actually put just a mid-range CPU in that spot?

 

[Grimmy]

I guess you have to admit that:

choices
fanboyism
budget
lifestyles

are all components of making a hard sound wise choice.

Now if we all win the lottery... it wouldn't be that hard. :lol:

 

[corvetteguy]

yes, i understand that, but in that time (12-18 months), we will have better cheaper chips. Now if someone buys a $1000 chip now, in 18 months it probably won't be as good as a mid-low range chip then. By buying a cheaper($200) chip now, then in a year -18 moths buy another $200 chip, you'll be ahead, and have been no worse for wear in between. Thats also my point about people always recommending conroe. It probably won't be a upgradeable as AM2, and thats why you'll need a $1000 chip to last far enough. With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

But how does that help the people who cant wait? Im not talking about those who lack patience, but those who have an actual need. It doesnt Some people have to upgrade now. I have this discussion all the time with people at work who ask me about upgrading/building/buying systems. I always tell them, wait as long as you can. Sooner or later though, they cant wait any more and have to buy. Prices are always going to fall, relativily speaking, but that true with many retail consumer items.

This year has been the first time there were no significant CPU price drops from Jan to June. The X2 3800 hovered at $289 to $292 for six months. I've never seen a CPU hold its retail price that long. Some Athlon XP CPU and mobo prices had actally gone up. The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.

As for AM2 being more upgradable than Conroe, I doubt it. AM2 is already 1/2 to 1/3 of the way through its life cycle. Its Uarch is near its peak in terms of how much more performance AMD can squeak out of it, while Conroe is still in its infancy. AMD needs to come up with something new pretty quick or find themselves relegated to the low performance bargain processor catagory. On the other hand, I would not be suprised to see Intel releaseing factory 4GHz Core 2's next year. Its just a matter of life cycle timing.

Right now, IMO, the best route to go is to buy the at the high end of the price/performance CPU curve (C2D 6600) and short change the videocard.


Peace

even if they can't wait it won't do them any good to buy a $1000 chip. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the chip is bad. I'msaying it isn't worth the price for gaming when you can get cloe with an e6300 or 4200. As for upgradability, AM2 boards will be compatible with AM3(K8L) boards for a long time. Also maybe i read you wrong but did you say get a good cpu, and get a crappy gpu?

 

[NMDante]

For those ready to jump to Vista, yes.
Why spend tons of cash on a video card if DX10 compatiblity is questionable.

Get a high/mid-range CPU, a GPU that won't kill a yearly budget, and you can always upgrade when Vista requirements are set.

 

[corvetteguy]

well in that situation the person should tell them that they don't need an x6800 and an e6600 will do the same for half the price. If the person stil wants it, you've done your best, but they can't be helped. But if they do downgrade slightly, you've saved them lots if money.

That's just it. You can sway someone from going top of the line, but if they want it, and have the means to get it, why should anyone stop them from spending their own money.

You saved them money? Why? It's not your money. If you give your opinion, and they say, "Well, I'm going with X6800 or FX-62.", who cares after that if you can save them money? I mean, really? If someone is willing to drop that much on a CPU, you think they will run a single ATI 9600 PRO? No way. They are mostly likely going SLI/Crossfire setup with tons of RAM, and Raptor drives. Why? Again, it's their decision to spend, not yours or mine.

I don't see why you think forum posters need to be financial advisors for people who really don't care for opinions on how they spend their money. If they want a setup in a certain budget, of course top of the line is probably out of the question. But if someone asks, "What would be your dream system?", you'd actually put just a mid-range CPU in that spot?

Thats what i said. If you tell em what they need and they don't listen, who cares. Actually i do think people who recommend should be in some way a "financial advisor", but only to a point. Also, of course a "dream system" wouldn't have a midrange cpu in it... but thats why its a dream, without money to worry about.

 

[NMDante]

well in that situation the person should tell them that they don't need an x6800 and an e6600 will do the same for half the price. If the person stil wants it, you've done your best, but they can't be helped. But if they do downgrade slightly, you've saved them lots if money.

That's just it. You can sway someone from going top of the line, but if they want it, and have the means to get it, why should anyone stop them from spending their own money.

You saved them money? Why? It's not your money. If you give your opinion, and they say, "Well, I'm going with X6800 or FX-62.", who cares after that if you can save them money? I mean, really? If someone is willing to drop that much on a CPU, you think they will run a single ATI 9600 PRO? No way. They are mostly likely going SLI/Crossfire setup with tons of RAM, and Raptor drives. Why? Again, it's their decision to spend, not yours or mine.

I don't see why you think forum posters need to be financial advisors for people who really don't care for opinions on how they spend their money. If they want a setup in a certain budget, of course top of the line is probably out of the question. But if someone asks, "What would be your dream system?", you'd actually put just a mid-range CPU in that spot?

Thats what i said. If you tell em what they need and they don't listen, who cares. Actually i do think people who recommend should be in some way a "financial advisor", but only to a point. Also, of course a "dream system" wouldn't have a midrange cpu in it... but thats why its a dream, without money to worry about.

And most people who recommend, are looking at price/performance, except for the die-hards, fanbois, etc.

I usually recommend a CPU that is a lower model than listed, unless they believe it would hinder their expected performance. The only ones that try hard, not so much for top of the line, but for something that they think is good for them, and not what the person is asking about. I mean, you see someone with an AM2 setup, and you might get the usual, "Why not go Conroe" response. Same with any C2D setup, there's usually a "Why not get AMD xxxx+, it's cheaper, and blah, blah".

It's not so much a price/performance reason, just a typcial "this company is better than that, cause I like them better" reason.

 

[corvetteguy]

That may be true, but i like AMD but i am also getting AM2 because it is upgradeable. If C2D was like that, i wouldn't hesitate to go intel. It would be painfull, but that would be mitigated by the performance 😛

actually now that i think about it(almost got sucked in by conroe hype), i would still get the 4600 EE because its the best price/performance/power consumption chip for me 8)

 

[Viperabyss]

core 2 might have better performance price, but they start out expensive.

you mean... E6300 @ $230, that can outperforms X2 4400+ @ roughly the same price?

They do have better performance per watt, but the AMD EE versions use very little power (less than C2D)

yet, they perform a lot worse than Core 2. unless you're building a MODT, power consumption is not your primary factor in chooseing processors.

How bout telling them not to spend $2000 and save their money. Even if they want to you could recomend a e6600 or 6700 for much less.

and that still doesn't support this thread's topic, "there is no point in going for Core 2". you're just telling me that it is better to recommend mid-range processors.

your bogus 😛

i guess the words speak for themselves.

 

[corvetteguy]

core 2 might have better performance price, but they start out expensive.

you mean... E6300 @ $230, that can outperforms X2 4400+ @ roughly the same price?

They do have better performance per watt, but the AMD EE versions use very little power (less than C2D)

yet, they perform a lot worse than Core 2. unless you're building a MODT, power consumption is not your primary factor in chooseing processors.

How bout telling them not to spend $2000 and save their money. Even if they want to you could recomend a e6600 or 6700 for much less.

and that still doesn't support this thread's topic, "there is no point in going for Core 2". you're just telling me that it is better to recommend mid-range processors.

your bogus 😛

i guess the words speak for themselves.

The e6300 is expensive as the lowest of a series. Contray to what YOU might think, power consumption is a concern for many people. The name of the thread is what people said. Since conroe is charactreized as high end, it serves the same purpose. And yes... you ARE bogus.

 

[turpit]

yes, i understand that, but in that time (12-18 months), we will have better cheaper chips. Now if someone buys a $1000 chip now, in 18 months it probably won't be as good as a mid-low range chip then. By buying a cheaper($200) chip now, then in a year -18 moths buy another $200 chip, you'll be ahead, and have been no worse for wear in between. Thats also my point about people always recommending conroe. It probably won't be a upgradeable as AM2, and thats why you'll need a $1000 chip to last far enough. With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

But how does that help the people who cant wait? Im not talking about those who lack patience, but those who have an actual need. It doesnt Some people have to upgrade now. I have this discussion all the time with people at work who ask me about upgrading/building/buying systems. I always tell them, wait as long as you can. Sooner or later though, they cant wait any more and have to buy. Prices are always going to fall, relativily speaking, but that true with many retail consumer items.

This year has been the first time there were no significant CPU price drops from Jan to June. The X2 3800 hovered at $289 to $292 for six months. I've never seen a CPU hold its retail price that long. Some Athlon XP CPU and mobo prices had actally gone up. The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.

As for AM2 being more upgradable than Conroe, I doubt it. AM2 is already 1/2 to 1/3 of the way through its life cycle. Its Uarch is near its peak in terms of how much more performance AMD can squeak out of it, while Conroe is still in its infancy. AMD needs to come up with something new pretty quick or find themselves relegated to the low performance bargain processor catagory. On the other hand, I would not be suprised to see Intel releaseing factory 4GHz Core 2's next year. Its just a matter of life cycle timing.

Right now, IMO, the best route to go is to buy the at the high end of the price/performance CPU curve (C2D 6600) and short change the videocard.


Peace

even if they can't wait it won't do them any good to buy a $1000 chip. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the chip is bad. I'msaying it isn't worth the price for gaming when you can get cloe with an e6300 or 4200. As for upgradability, AM2 boards will be compatible with AM3(K8L) boards for a long time. Also maybe i read you wrong but did you say get a good cpu, and get a crappy gpu?


No, no $1000 chip is ever worth it. Go look at the THG interactive CPU charts. The price-performance ratio is way off. Ive always been willing to give to trade 100 FPS for 89FPS, or a minute of video processing/3D rendering time to save $600 bucks. I would imagine a lot of people are. Some people are not. Usually the people who are not willing to settle for a little less performance can afford not to, so this thread reaaly doenst apply, as they will simply upgrade the next time the next "latest-greatest" is available. The $1000 CPUs are targeted at them. For the (IMO) average consumer however, (those who fall into the 2-4 year upgrade catagory) its a different story. Again, if they have to upgrade now, and want a system that will be viable 2-3 years down the road, buying a cheap CPU isnt going to cut it.

On the GPU question, Yes, thats exactly what I meant, IF someone has to buy right now, and I mean right now. DX 10 is right around the corner. Save the $$ get a:
http://www.compuvest.com/Search.jsp?Search=100586&advsite=grabber
or similar just to get the system functional, then wait the 2-3 months for the nex gen GPUs


Peace

 

[corvetteguy]

If someone can only upgrade every 2-4 years because of money issues, then buy cheaper is still a good option because then they could upgrade more often, and be ahead of where they would be at the end of the 4 years, at half the price. As for the vid card thats a choice. I'm getting an x1900xt or maybe x1950xt now, then in about a year and a half or less upgrade that, and the 4600 EE to a K8L. That seems to be the best thing right now to do.

 

[turpit]

yes, i understand that, but in that time (12-18 months), we will have better cheaper chips. Now if someone buys a $1000 chip now, in 18 months it probably won't be as good as a mid-low range chip then. By buying a cheaper($200) chip now, then in a year -18 moths buy another $200 chip, you'll be ahead, and have been no worse for wear in between. Thats also my point about people always recommending conroe. It probably won't be a upgradeable as AM2, and thats why you'll need a $1000 chip to last far enough. With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

But how does that help the people who cant wait? Im not talking about those who lack patience, but those who have an actual need. It doesnt Some people have to upgrade now. I have this discussion all the time with people at work who ask me about upgrading/building/buying systems. I always tell them, wait as long as you can. Sooner or later though, they cant wait any more and have to buy. Prices are always going to fall, relativily speaking, but that true with many retail consumer items.

This year has been the first time there were no significant CPU price drops from Jan to June. The X2 3800 hovered at $289 to $292 for six months. I've never seen a CPU hold its retail price that long. Some Athlon XP CPU and mobo prices had actally gone up. The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.

As for AM2 being more upgradable than Conroe, I doubt it. AM2 is already 1/2 to 1/3 of the way through its life cycle. Its Uarch is near its peak in terms of how much more performance AMD can squeak out of it, while Conroe is still in its infancy. AMD needs to come up with something new pretty quick or find themselves relegated to the low performance bargain processor catagory. On the other hand, I would not be suprised to see Intel releaseing factory 4GHz Core 2's next year. Its just a matter of life cycle timing.

Right now, IMO, the best route to go is to buy the at the high end of the price/performance CPU curve (C2D 6600) and short change the videocard.


Peace

even if they can't wait it won't do them any good to buy a $1000 chip. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the chip is bad. I'msaying it isn't worth the price for gaming when you can get cloe with an e6300 or 4200. As for upgradability, AM2 boards will be compatible with AM3(K8L) boards for a long time. Also maybe i read you wrong but did you say get a good cpu, and get a crappy gpu?


Ah, you see, you dont know of the dx66/100-pentrium debacle.
Intel swore up and down, Pentium 1 was going to be a drop in upgrade to the old 386 boards. Everyone who bought into that got bit in the arse. As for AM3 being a drop in upgrade to the AM2 boards, I wont beleive it until its here, The same as I refused to accept the Core 2 hoopla till it was on the market. Call me a skeptic

Honestly, I doubt AM3 will be a drop in upgrade. I know AMD is claiming this, and that the socket will remain the same, but Im almost willing to bet its going to need a new chipset, which means a new mobo. JMO


Peace

 

[corvetteguy]

Anyway i'm gonna go eat now, so if i don't respond, its not because your right and i don't have an answer, its because my mouth is full 😛

 

[yourbestfriend]

I spend my money on video cards

 

[exit2dos]

Honestly, I doubt AM3 will be a drop in upgrade. I know AMD is claiming this, and that the socket will remain the same, but Im almost willing to bet its going to need a new chipset, which means a new mobo. JMO

AM3 is on spec for using DDR3, so even if it is a "drop in", it won't be utilized to its full potential. Also, by the time AM3 hits, PCI-e 2.0 will be out, you'll need a new motherboard for top-end graphics cards.

 

[corvetteguy]

Well i guess with upgradeability you have to look at reputaions and have a little faith. Intel did that, but AMD has always had a rep for being upgrdae friendly. If i had to guess who is more likely to screw you with a chipset change it would be intel 😛

 

[corvetteguy]

Honestly, I doubt AM3 will be a drop in upgrade. I know AMD is claiming this, and that the socket will remain the same, but Im almost willing to bet its going to need a new chipset, which means a new mobo. JMO

AM3 is on spec for using DDR3, so even if it is a "drop in", it won't be utilized to its full potential. Also, by the time AM3 hits, PCI-e 2.0 will be out, you'll need a new motherboard for top-end graphics cards.

Its still better than intel's upgrade path which is very short.

 

[icbluscrn]

I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)

1st what forums are you talking about that don't recommend conroes its not(AT)(h)(oc)(vr)(e) forums . You must mean the AMD forums correct?
2nd I think the title should say "I say "there's no point to conroe"
3rd after reading through some of your responses you even give the e6300 as an alternitive, last time i checked the e6300 was a conroe but i havent checked in a while.
4th taking into acount 1,2,3 the title should read " I say "there is no point to a $800 conroe for games

 

[exit2dos]

Its still better than intel's upgrade path which is very short.

I agree. Trying to keep up with Intel's chipset releases can be difficult. Hopefully, they have taken care of this. I guess we'll see when Kentsfield comes out. :? :looks hopefully:

 

[Guest]

I couldn't care less about your post.

1. No one gives a damn about ANOTHER bloody post regarding this problem. There are enough threads already.

2. Learn how to use paragraphs. Please.

 

[gman01]

your first post to start this thread does not even describe the people on this forum?

New system builders(noobs) are always told to but an athlon x2 OR low end conroe.... I never see people on this forum telling people to buy and athlon FX / or high end conroe? They make a point in telling people they are better off spending their money on a better video card if they want to play games....

If people were steering people to the high end your rant would be correct....