Question Graphics card upgrade for HP Pavilion p6520f Desktop PC with legacy BIOS ?

[MarktheArtist]

I have a HP Pavilion p6520f tower (bought in 2010). It is running Windows 10 (latest update).

it has an H-RS880-uATX (Aloe) motherboard, a 1 TB western Digital 7200 RPM Red Label hard drive, 14 Gb ram.

The RAM slots are DDR3 DIMM and supported speed PC3-10600@1333MHz in a 64 bit set-up, but runs at 1066MHz becaue there are 4 RAM slots occupied.

450 watt power supply.

processor is an AMD Phenom II X4 965

directX version 12.

It has (1) PCi express x16 expansion slot version 2.0.

It has a legacy BIOS version 6.09 dated September 2010.

It does not have UEFI capability

The existing graphics processor is an motherboard-based (integrated) ATI Radeon 4200 with 'up to' 256 Mb memory.

I know very little about graphics cards, but would like to maximize the graphics capability for the computer. So here I am asking for some recommendations... Obviously compatibility is the main issue.

Please let me know what you legacy gear/software folks think

Thanks in Advance,

Mark

 

[Aeacus]

If there was a way to flash the BIOS backwards.....

Only select few, latest, high-end consumer grade MoBos (e.g Intel Z-series), offer the BIOS rollback feature. But bulk of MoBos don't. E.g even my Z170 chipset MoBo (high-end Skylake family) doesn't have BIOS rollback feature.

Trying to flash the BIOS with older version may not work, if system has version detection in it.

 

[MarktheArtist]

So, Im typing this on the possessed computer. Frustratedly, last night I pulled the motherboard out and put the old one back in... It didn't work. I has pulled everything off the motherboard I had been using including the CMOS battery.

Well, when it didnt work, I was thinking to myself - "Oh Fudge"...

Never being one who won't take a flogging and ask the same question over and over again, expecting a different result: I took the miscreant MoBo that I had pulled and slapped that butterball right back in...

Along the way, I put the new battery back into the (CMOS?) clock battery slot.

This time, I only used 3 four Gb RAM sticks in the first three DIMM slots.

Just for grins, I fired it up - figuring that expecting a different result was just confirming my insanity.... and that I should be shopping for a new MoBo as Aeacus had suggested..

But to my wondering eyes, I found a prompt on the screen asking me to press control F keys to enter the Raid configuration ROM menu... I tried this and it wouldn't accept the requested keystrokes. As I cursed loudly, I re-booted....

It sat there for a couple minutes and didn't do squat.... I walked off for an adult beverage. When I came back, it had booted up and was on the the black windows screen with the hamster wheel turning.

I drank my adult beverage while it loaded windows and updated the date and time automatically. I entered my computer password and it continued to boot and load...

It reached out, downloaded drivers for the new graphics card and did all it's automatic updates for stuff like the anti-virus.... and then said it needed to restart/reboot to complete the graphics card driver updates... So, I'm a sucker for a bad joke punchline... and I did a restart......

Lo and behold, it wouldn't restart.... and after several on/off restart attempts, I sort of made a hypothetical connection between the MoBo CMOS battery and failure to restart/boot up... I have no reason to believe that I know anything about why this works... So, I opened up the case and powered the rig down and pulled the plug... Then I removed the CR 20323 battery from it's holder. Powered the rig up again and attempted to boot it - nothing happens... tried this a couple times - no battery in the MoBo holder.. nothing happens.

Then I replace the battery into the holder and try to boot the rig up......... success..... go figure... maybe I'm not insane...

So, as I said, I'm typing this on the possessed/haunted legacy rig. It is currently working just fine. I have no explanation as to why it is no longer an elegant antique doorstop.... But I'm going to have to go with a funky CMOS issue not addressed by any prior BIOS updates

Yes, the jumpers on the CMOS and BIOS reset pins are in the proper locations

 

[Aeacus]

Then I replace the battery into the holder and try to boot the rig up......... success..... go figure... maybe I'm not insane...

Even i can't tell why PC needs the CMOS battery reseat, for to operate normally.

CMOS battery has two purposes:

1. To keep user made BIOS settings (e.g CPU OC, fan curves, RAM XMP profile)
2. To let computer know, how much time has passed, even when it's been powered off for a while

Removing CMOS will reset BIOS changes back to factory default and also clears any sense of time for PC.

--

Good to hear that you got life into your PC.
And it looks like your PC (MoBo) is cranky and capricious old timer.

--

Oh, did you get your Quadro running? If so, how is it?

 

[MarktheArtist]

Ive never even seen a RAID configuration ROM menu that I can remember - what is it used for and why did it go there first when the darned BIOS started to work again?

The graphics card is functional and windows automatically updated the drivers for it (large file) when windows performed its update routine for new PnP equipment.
However, I have not been able to try it out yet with Photoshop.

In general terms, what differences should I be seeing with this GPU/memory card now that I have increased the memory by 16 X and the processing speed by a good bit? In gaming, a good GPU gives you a better visual experience in the game... but this is all about FPS and other factors. For a mere workstation-type user, should I be looking for better YouTube video quality? In many respects, the user is also limited by the quality of their monitor... A good GPU is 'lipstick on a pig', if the monitor is as old as my rig is...

 

[Aeacus]

what is it used for

RAID = Redundant Array of Independent Disks. It is used for data redundancy.
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

why did it go there first when the darned BIOS started to work again?

With "Why", i'm shooting in the dark, but it could've been, that in the factory, MoBo was tested with RAID (e.g does it work with RAID), and clearing CMOS or even due to the volatile state your MoBo was/is in, it was looking for the RAID array it last was hooked up to, in the factory.

In general terms, what differences should I be seeing with this GPU/memory card now that I have increased the memory by 16 X and the processing speed by a good bit? In gaming, a good GPU gives you a better visual experience in the game... but this is all about FPS and other factors. For a mere workstation-type user, should I be looking for better YouTube video quality? In many respects, the user is also limited by the quality of their monitor... A good GPU is 'lipstick on a pig', if the monitor is as old as my rig is...

First and most obvious is far shorter rendering times, compared to your integrated GPU, if you use GPU as render device (compared to using CPU as render device).
2nd would be VRAM capacity, which is far bigger, meaning that you can load in more assets before you start seeing slowdowns, due to the clearing of old, filled VRAM and writing data back into VRAM. If you even see the slowdowns at all, since now, you have 16x times more VRAM than you had earlier.

Now, neither of the two, your iGPU (Radeon HD 4200) nor your current GPU (Quadro K2200) are meant for gaming. HD 4200 is way too weak and K2200 wasn't designed for gaming in the first place. But to give you an idea, how much K2200 is better, here is comparison between two GPUs,
link: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/ATI-Radeon-HD-4200-vs-Nvidia-Quadro-K2200/m8091vs2839

Quite a jump in performance.

If by "better Youtube quality" you mean the video quality when you're watching Youtube videos, then yes, K2200 can handle far more, than HD 4200.

--

And if you're interested in the white papers, then here is the source that gave me the thought of suggesting Quadro K2200 to you;
White paper is created by Nvidia and it is about Adobe creative software when using Quadro GPUs.

White paper *.pdf download link: https://i.dell.com/sites/csdocument...s_Documents/en/Adobe_CC_Solution_Overview.pdf

 

[MarktheArtist]

Using the benchmark program, my graphics card and ram suck... while the processor and disk drive are average

 

[Aeacus]

Using the benchmark program

Which program?

 

[MarktheArtist]

SO Aeacus,,,, how should this Nvidia graphics card be configured to maximize performance

Which program?

It was on the same web page which you linked for the comparison between the antique integrated graphical processor and the newer Nvidia

and…. I got the RAID rom config page again only this time it said I had a hardware issue.

I also got into the BIOS config and set everything back to what it considered the standard configuration.
This was likely a mistake

 

[Aeacus]

SO Aeacus,,,, how should this Nvidia graphics card be configured to maximize performance

That (Quadro and FirePro GPUs) are above my paygrade since i'm focused on consumer hardware. You could either search manual/guides from the net, or make a new topic here, in TH forums, in GPU subforum. I'm sure there are folks here who know workstation GPUs quite well.

It was on the same web page which you linked for the comparison between the antique integrated graphical processor and the newer Nvidia

Care to link your benchmark results? Like to see how your build fares as a whole.

E.g here is the results of my main rig,
link: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/51274696

and…. I got the RAID rom config page again only this time it said I had a hardware issue.

I have no explanation to that. Then again, i have never dealt with old, cranky and capricious MoBo.

 

[MarktheArtist]

Hmm, it said as a gaming PC, it was a log, as a desktop, it was a gunboat and as a workstation, it was a log It did suggest that all components scores were within average ranges of performance..

 

[Aeacus]

Hmm, it said as a gaming PC, it was a log, as a desktop, it was a gunboat and as a workstation, it was a log It did suggest that all components scores were within average ranges of performance..

If you don't have the benchmark link saved in your browser history, you could run the benchmark again and post link here, since i'm still interested seeing the bench.

Oh, the overall percentages (desktop, gaming, workstation) are essentially compared to the best what is currently available. 5 years ago, when i ran the bench on my PC, i had easy 90% in gaming, 110% in desktop and 80% in workstation. But now, as my hardware ages and falls behind performance wise, percentages also drop.

Edit:
I'm not sure, but is this your benchmark run? -> https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/54227452

 

[MarktheArtist]

That was my rig, I believe.

I bought a used Socket AM3 Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H. It has the copper heat sink with the copper tubing It came with a BFG tech GEForce GTS250 graphics card. I think I will use the Nvidia Quadro K2200.

Now I’m trying to plug all the stuff in from the old rig into the new board. Having a bit of a problem hooking two things into the board… one is a 5 pin plug for the CD/DVD R/W. Only 4 pins are wired. The Gigabyte board has a 4 pin ‘CD_IN’. I’m assuming this is where this should be plugged in. It was plugged into the USB 5 plug on the old board.

The other weirdness is a 9 pin plug which appears to be related to the multi-card reader. It was plugged into its own 9 Pin board receptacle on the old HP Aloe board. Not sure where it goes now….

 

[Aeacus]

The other weirdness is a 9 pin plug which appears to be related to the multi-card reader. It was plugged into its own 9 Pin board receptacle on the old HP Aloe board. Not sure where it goes now….

There should be adapter cables that take this 9-pin and convert it to USB 2.0 (either for internal header or the common rectangular USB plug).

 

[MarktheArtist]

There should be adapter cables that take this 9-pin and convert it to USB 2.0 (either for internal header or the common rectangular USB plug).

There are two additional 9 pin USB inputs on the board: USB 2 and USB 3. Are you suggesting I can plug the 9 pin directly into one of these?

 

[Aeacus]

Are you suggesting I can plug the 9 pin directly into one of these?

Can you make a photo of the 9-pin cable (female end with pinholes visible) and upload it (e.g Imgur) and share the pic? Since without conformation, you could blow your rig, by connecting wrong cable to wrong spot.

My worry is, that this card reader may have proprietary connector, since it came from prebuilt PC. Pic will tell what kind of connector it is.

 

[Aeacus]

Using your personal Facebook is convenient, however, i do not have access to your personal album and i can not see the images.
Upload them here: https://imgur.com/ and post the link here.

<Moderator edit for content>

 

[MarktheArtist]

I was able to see them until the moderator got involved. I made the album public

 

[MarktheArtist]

Please send me a PM with an email and I’ll send the darned pics for you to see. I can also FaceTime.

when the moderator toasted my posts, he trashed 90 minutes of my time. Thank you moderator. I can hardly wait until you’re my age and this happens to you.

I am not plugged into the cloud and have no patience to learn a new app tonite.

 

[MarktheArtist]

The black 9 pin plug is just like a USB plug…. EXCEPT… the blank pin is swapped top for bottom. So it won’t fit a USB board plug

 

[Aeacus]

when the moderator toasted my posts, he trashed 90 minutes of my time. Thank you moderator. I can hardly wait until you’re my age and this happens to you.

Sadly, you sharing your personal Facebook account infringed with forum rules, whereby it is forbidden to share personal information. I think that was the reason why mod deleted your replies and also edited mine, since i quoted those links in my reply.

I am not plugged into the cloud and have no patience to learn a new app tonite.

Imgur.com is not an "app". It's a website.
E.g all my PC images, that i shared here, are uploaded there. I just posted the direct link to the topic.

I can also FaceTime.

What is that?

Now, you may be too old to learn how to use a website, i, in the other hand, have 0 clue how to work with smart phones. I've heard of FaceTime, but that's it. On my smart phone (which i had to get, not because i wanted, but because out of necessity), i only know how to make calls, send SMS, take pics/vids and that's it. Before that, i had (and still have) "dumb" phone, Nokia 108 dual sim, which i'd love to use, if it weren't for specific reasons why i had to shelf it. To me, phone (smart or dumb), is still a phone, and not handheld PC. For my online tasks (news, e-mails, TH forum etc), i have my desktop PC.

Did some checking and FaceTime is for Apple devices: Mac and iPhone. I have neither. What i have, are Windows PC (several), GNU/Linux laptop and Android smart phone. So, even if i wanted, i couldn't use it, since it's iOS specific. Oh, and hell will freeze twice over, before i'm getting myself an iPhone (or any Apple product for that matter).

The black 9 pin plug is just like a USB plug…. EXCEPT… the blank pin is swapped top for bottom. So it won’t fit a USB board plug

If so, then it is proprietary connector and can't be transferred over to new MoBo. If you still need a card reader, buy a new one, e.g Akasa (lineup here), since many of those come with standard USB 2.0 internal header (i've bought several, for my desktop PCs.)

 

[MarktheArtist]

Imgur is an app… downloaded it this pm to my iPhone and immediately disappointed.
If you look at the upload media tab on this discussion platform, it lists Facebook as a legit source to upload photos. Photos are ‘media’ aren’t they?

If you pm me with an email addy, I’ll send the images.

BTW.. the funky 9 pin connector would fit the “SPDIF_IO COM” but I have no idea what is actually supposed to plug into this

 

[MarktheArtist]

And, as I said, the five pin white connector which was formerly plugged into a USB socket on the old MOBO, would fit the ‘CD_IN socket if I trimmed off the blank pin on the existing plug … or if I just used 1/2 of a 9 pin USB socket

 

[MarktheArtist]

I believe both of these UN-plugged-in cables are related to the card(s) reader… and, who knows, maybe the little blue light that comes on when the power switch is in the on position.

 

[MarktheArtist]

Now some stupid pet trick questions.
1) The old board only used 20 of the 24 pin plug combo. I am using the extra 4 pin connector which mates with the 20 pin connector… thereby occupying all 24 pins. Any issues?

2) the new board has an 8 pin connector where the old board only had a 4 pin socket. So I found the additional mating 4 pin socket to make an 8 pin socket.
Any issues?

 

[Aeacus]

Imgur is an app… downloaded it this pm to my iPhone and immediately disappointed.

As i said previously, i don't use my phone. Instead, i'm using PC with browser, and Imgur is website 1st and app 2nd. Since without the website, app won't work. But without the app, website still works.

Here, i can't tell how Imgur app works. But many sites that have "apps" for phones, the app part is usually far worse than the site itself, when site is used with PC and internet browser.

If you look at the upload media tab on this discussion platform, it lists Facebook as a legit source to upload photos. Photos are ‘media’ aren’t they?

That Media insert part is for embedding, meaning that when you post a link, it embeds the media and previews it here, with link to the source. (E.g like the Youtube video i shared earlier, where system identifies it and automatically creates working video player.) Your links didn't produce any preview and were shown as plain links.

Me, rather than using text editing tool, which may or may not work, i instead manually type out all the BBCode tags, when formatting my reply. Img tags, quote tags, spoiler tags etc. More work, for sure, but then i can be certain that what formatting i used, works, as it is supposed to.

BTW.. the funky 9 pin connector would fit the “SPDIF_IO COM

Without MoBo manual, telling what ports are what, better not to guess and randomly connect cables into it.

would fit the ‘CD_IN socket if I trimmed off the blank pin on the existing plug …

I wouldn't do it. You can fry your hardware due to this. Especially since if it isn't meant to go in there, it shouldn't be put there.

1) The old board only used 20 of the 24 pin plug combo. I am using the extra 4 pin connector which mates with the 20 pin connector… thereby occupying all 24 pins. Any issues?

24-pin ATX is standard with current MoBos, while 20-pin ATX was used with older MoBos.

Many PSUs have their main ATX connector as 20+4 pin, giving flexibility:

And even when you have 20-pin connector on PSU, but MoBo is 24-pin, you can safely still use it:

But since you have 20+4 pin on PSU side and MoBo is 24-pin, using all, fully, is best.

the new board has an 8 pin connector where the old board only had a 4 pin socket. So I found the additional mating 4 pin socket to make an 8 pin socket.
Any issues?

This is called +12V EPS and it is used to power the CPU. Now, if you wouldn't have 4+4 pin EPS on PSU side, you can still get away by using one 4-pin:

But since you have 4+4 EPS on PSU side,

populating all 8 slots is preferred.