Question GTX 10/16 vs RTX 20/30 , Truth vs Lie ?

[takearushfan82]

Hi all. Maybe "Truth vs Lie" is a poor way to put it but I'm hearing lots of contradictory info when trying to figure out what GPU to upgrade to.
I'd prefer an RTX but I've heard that in some cases their improvement over a GTX might be negligible.
One guy mentioned that his RTX 3060 benchmarked far worse than his old GTX 1060!
Raytracing doesn't seem to be enough of a benefit to justify shelling out more than necessary, unless the RTX is guaranteed to be SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a GTX.
What would be the RTX equivalent of the GTX 1660 6Gb?
What would you recommend? How can I find a list of accurate information?

 

[Aeacus]

What would be the RTX equivalent of the GTX 1660 6Gb?

There is none. RTX 3050 is closest to it but still a bit better performance wise,
comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-RTX-3050/4038vs4127

One guy mentioned that his RTX 3060 benchmarked far worse than his old GTX 1060!

Tough luck. Also, sounds like hollow claim. Unless he tested RTX 3060 at 2K while GTX 1060 at 1080p and forgot to mention the resolution difference. Or he enabled Ray Tracing on RTX 3060, which puts high load on GPU.

How can I find a list of accurate information?

Look here: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

What would you recommend?

Depends on what your budget and current GPU is.

For example, i used to run GTX 1060 3GB GPU and when i upgraded my GPU, RTX 20-series was out. But rather than going with RTX 20-series GPU, i instead went with GTX 1660 Ti 6GB GPU, since that was tops for 1080p gaming. One step up, RTX 2060, would've required 2K monitor, which i don't have (nor planned to buy).

Raytracing doesn't seem to be enough of a benefit to justify shelling out more than necessary, unless the RTX is guaranteed to be SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a GTX.

With RTX GPUs, you don't have to enable Ray Tracing. You can still use GPU without it. Though, Ray Tracing as such, puts high load on GPU with little (if any) graphical improvement. Sure, shadows/reflections are a bit nicer but that's about it what Ray Tracing does.

At current date, RTX 4060 is nice option over GTX 10/16-series,
comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-RTX-4060/4038vs4150
And it's prices start as low as $300 bucks,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=552&sort=price&page=1

 

[boju]

Who is this guy? 3060 is a bit slower than 1080Ti https://www.techspot.com/review/2211-geforce-rtx-3060/

I upgraded 3080Ti from 1080Ti and performance in all my games doubled, no RTX. RTX is just a feature, so you could say RTX cards are pretty much a GTX if you don't have Ray Tracing on. It's just naming scheme is all.

See relative performance on guidance for a purchase.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1660.c3365

 

[DSzymborski]

One guy mentioned that his RTX 3060 benchmarked far worse than his old GTX 1060!

I can tell someone I have four wheels, but that doesn't make me into a car.

 

[35below0]

I'll take a stab at "truth vs lie"

Truth is you want or need a new GPU. So you should look at all that are available without prejudice. Rumors, gossip and reviews are for everyone, but your GPU is for you!

Truth is that benchmarks test GPUs to find out what they can theoretically achieve. In practise, performance depends on many factors such as ram, cpu, amount of bloat software running, game visual settings etc. and drivers.

(In theory, making some memory upgrades or stepping up to the next level CPU would make my computer boot faster. In practise, it would be half a second faster.
- What a benchmark says is true may not actually be noticeable by the user.)

It is also true that the RTX range is not very conveniently priced. XX60 cards are alright but any step up from there comes with a price increase you have to pay if you want more performance.

It is a lie that RTX series are a bad choice. Maybe the improvements over the previous generations are small or game specific, and maybe those improvements are dissapointing for the price. But prices are distorted by inflation and pushed up by demand. High price or no, people pay! VRAM size and speed do matter, esp. as more and more gamers move up from 1080p.

Match your new card to the power of your machine and gaming desires. That way you get most value for the money spent, and make sure the rest of the system can handle the GPU.

For example, a new 4060 would genuinely be a nice card to pickup where the GTX 1660 left off (assuming that is what you have now?). It would also not give your wallet more than a spanking.
But it is hard to tell how soon the 4060 would become too gutless to comfortably run some new game. A 3080 or 4070 or better would not run out of juice as quickly, but you could also be looking at a PSU upgrade and possibly a new CPU. And then also a motherboard, etc. etc.
That is considerably more than a spanking.

You never mentioned the rest of your system specs or what you need a new GPU for?

 

[Flayed]

There is none. RTX 3050 is closest to it but still a bit better performance wise,
comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-RTX-3050/4038vs4127

Apologies for veering slightly off-topic. Looking at that comparison I see the performance per $ hasn't improved in 3 years!

 

[takearushfan82]

I can tell someone I have four wheels, but that doesn't make me into a car.

I love that, lol

 

[takearushfan82]

I'll take a stab at "truth vs lie"

Truth is you want or need a new GPU. So you should look at all that are available without prejudice. Rumors, gossip and reviews are for everyone, but your GPU is for you!

Truth is that benchmarks test GPUs to find out what they can theoretically achieve. In practise, performance depends on many factors such as ram, cpu, amount of bloat software running, game visual settings etc. and drivers.

(In theory, making some memory upgrades or stepping up to the next level CPU would make my computer boot faster. In practise, it would be half a second faster.
- What a benchmark says is true may not actually be noticeable by the user.)

It is also true that the RTX range is not very conveniently priced. XX60 cards are alright but any step up from there comes with a price increase you have to pay if you want more performance.

It is a lie that RTX series are a bad choice. Maybe the improvements over the previous generations are small or game specific, and maybe those improvements are dissapointing for the price. But prices are distorted by inflation and pushed up by demand. High price or no, people pay! VRAM size and speed do matter, esp. as more and more gamers move up from 1080p.

Match your new card to the power of your machine and gaming desires. That way you get most value for the money spent, and make sure the rest of the system can handle the GPU.

For example, a new 4060 would genuinely be a nice card to pickup where the GTX 1660 left off (assuming that is what you have now?). It would also not give your wallet more than a spanking.
But it is hard to tell how soon the 4060 would become too gutless to comfortably run some new game. A 3080 or 4070 or better would not run out of juice as quickly, but you could also be looking at a PSU upgrade and possibly a new CPU. And then also a motherboard, etc. etc.
That is considerably more than a spanking.

You never mentioned the rest of your system specs or what you need a new GPU for?

Shoot. It's just because my GTX 760 is definitely going to go dead soon.
Win 10 Pro
PSU 500 watt
32gb ddr4 ram
I9 10-something

I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of reformatting and it's from a friend so I don't recall all the specs.

My budget is around $150 . It's looking like eBay for a GTX 1660 6gb or RTX 2060. Is the RTX really all that much better if I don't care about raytracing?

 

[takearushfan82]

Who is this guy? 3060 is a bit slower than 1080Ti https://www.techspot.com/review/2211-geforce-rtx-3060/

I upgraded 3080Ti from 1080Ti and performance in all my games doubled, no RTX. RTX is just a feature, so you could say RTX cards are pretty much a GTX if you don't have Ray Tracing on. It's just naming scheme is all.

See relative performance on guidance for a purchase.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1660.c3365

My budget is around $150 . It's looking like eBay for a GTX 1660 6gb or RTX 2060. Is the RTX really all that much better if I don't care about raytracing?

 

[takearushfan82]

There is none. RTX 3050 is closest to it but still a bit better performance wise,
comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-RTX-3050/4038vs4127


Tough luck. Also, sounds like hollow claim. Unless he tested RTX 3060 at 2K while GTX 1060 at 1080p and forgot to mention the resolution difference. Or he enabled Ray Tracing on RTX 3060, which puts high load on GPU.


Look here: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html


Depends on what your budget and current GPU is.

For example, i used to run GTX 1060 3GB GPU and when i upgraded my GPU, RTX 20-series was out. But rather than going with RTX 20-series GPU, i instead went with GTX 1660 Ti 6GB GPU, since that was tops for 1080p gaming. One step up, RTX 2060, would've required 2K monitor, which i don't have (nor planned to buy).


With RTX GPUs, you don't have to enable Ray Tracing. You can still use GPU without it. Though, Ray Tracing as such, puts high load on GPU with little (if any) graphical improvement. Sure, shadows/reflections are a bit nicer but that's about it what Ray Tracing does.

At current date, RTX 4060 is nice option over GTX 10/16-series,
comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-RTX-4060/4038vs4150
And it's prices start as low as $300 bucks,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=552&sort=price&page=1

I'm unfortunately in a rough situation where I'm only able to shell out roughly $150
It's looking like eBay for a GTX 1660 6gb or RTX 2060. Is the RTX really all that much better if I don't care about raytracing?

 

[35below0]

Shoot. It's just because my GTX 760 is definitely going to go dead soon.
Win 10 Pro
PSU 500 watt
32gb ddr4 ram
I9 10-something

I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of reformatting and it's from a friend so I don't recall all the specs.

My budget is around $150 . It's looking like eBay for a GTX 1660 6gb or RTX 2060. Is the RTX really all that much better if I don't care about raytracing?

Your power supply is not going to be enough for more than either of those. Between them, the 2060 is slightly more powerfull but also needs more watts. If we eliminate ray tracing from the equation, it comes down to price and power demand.

 

[boju]

Upgrading from 760 to 1660 is worthwhile. Wouldn't go more than that with current power supply.

 

[takearushfan82]

Your power supply is not going to be enough for more than either of those. Between them, the 2060 is slightly more powerfull but also needs more watts. If we eliminate ray tracing from the equation, it comes down to price and power demand.

I'll opt for the 1660 then and get a better PSU.

 

[DSzymborski]

I'll opt for the 1660 then and get a better PSU.

Good choice. There aren't many decent PSU at precisely 500 watts, and it's always better to make sure one has at least a decent budget PSU when dealing with a GPU that requires supplementary power.

 

[takearushfan82]

Good choice. There aren't many decent PSU at precisely 500 watts, and it's always better to make sure one has at least a decent budget PSU when dealing with a GPU that requires supplementary power.

I hate how they say 500 is enough but then it turns out it's really not.

 

[DSzymborski]

The wattage is enough, but the quality is not.

 

[Aeacus]

Apologies for veering slightly off-topic. Looking at that comparison I see the performance per $ hasn't improved in 3 years!

Well, there have been some improvement, if you compare it overall.
Found this nice chart: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gpu-price-performance

But if you compare previous generation to the next and specific GPU, then it's easy to see how things are going.
E.g RTX 3060 Ti vs RTX 4060 Ti. Both MSRP are $399, while RTX 4060 Ti, depending in use case, is either worse than 3060 Ti, equal or up to 20% better. That is actually reduction in price to performance, or the very best, same performance as generation older GPU.

I hate how they say 500 is enough but then it turns out it's really not.

Let's solve it here and now; PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?

It's looking like eBay for a GTX 1660 6gb or RTX 2060. Is the RTX really all that much better if I don't care about raytracing?

Rather than going with GTX 1660, i suggest that you look towards GTX 1660 Ti instead. Brand new prices are equal between the two, while Ti variant is fastest of the three GTX 1660 cards (GTX 1660, GTX 1660 Super and GTX 1660 Ti). So, 2nd hand market prices are most likely same.

GTX 1660 vs GTX 1660 Ti comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti/4038vs4037
Ti is quite a bit better.

RTX 2060 is about same amount better from GTX 1660 Ti, as GTX 1660 Ti is from GTX 1660.
Comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2060/4037vs4034
But price for RTX 2060 is considerably more, mainly due to it being "capable" of Ray Tracing. Without Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 has far worse value than GTX 1660 Ti. And even with Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 isn't good GPU since Ray Tracing effectively halves any FPS you could get.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-ray-tracing-turing,5960-2.html

GTX 1660 Ti is 120W GPU and your 500W unit should be enough, given that it isn't a doorstop. And with this, we are back to my 1st question about your PSU and what it is.

 

[35below0]

Well, there have been some improvement, if you compare it overall.
Found this nice chart: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gpu-price-performance

But if you compare previous generation to the next and specific GPU, then it's easy to see how things are going.
E.g RTX 3060 Ti vs RTX 4060 Ti. Both MSRP are $399, while RTX 4060 Ti, depending in use case, is either worse than 3060 Ti, equal or up to 20% better. That is actually reduction in price to performance, or the very best, same performance as generation older GPU.

That MSRP is actualy not identical. The 4060 is cheaper. Value of money has gone down. $399 from the 3060's launch date (February 25, 2021.) costs more than $399 today, or rather the 4060's launch date(June 29th, 2023.).

The move from 30xx to 40xx generation shows... stagnation? It's certainly not a leap. But inflation distorts true prices. I can't be certain price to performance has gone down.

 

[Aeacus]

That MSRP is actualy not identical. The 4060 is cheaper. Value of money has gone down. $399 from the 3060's launch date (February 25, 2021.) costs more than $399 today, or rather the 4060's launch date(June 29th, 2023.).

The move from 30xx to 40xx generation shows... stagnation? It's certainly not a leap. But inflation distorts true prices. I can't be certain price to performance has gone down.

Value = price to performance ratio.

Now, performance to GPUs is fixed, but price is volatile. And due to that, it is hard to say which GPU has best value.

For example;
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9ZZXsY,hfjRsY/
Asus RTX 4070 Super at $600 has better value than MSI RTX 4070 at $590, since RTX 4070 Super is ~19% better than RTX 4070.

However,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/Jv26Mp,37Hqqs/
This MSI RTX 4070 Ti at $755 has better value than Asus RTX 4070 Super at $760, since RTX 4070 Ti is ~10% better than RTX 4070 Super.

Stagnation from Nvidia is best to describe the current RTX 40-series. Sure, RTX 4080/4090 are powerful, but they also cost far more than previous generation flagship models. IMO, price has gone far higher up than performance difference to previous generation.

 

[takearushfan82]

The wattage is enough, but the quality is not.

I will say that my buddy I got it from probably went as cheap as possible, yep.

 

[takearushfan82]

Well, there have been some improvement, if you compare it overall.
Found this nice chart: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gpu-price-performance

But if you compare previous generation to the next and specific GPU, then it's easy to see how things are going.
E.g RTX 3060 Ti vs RTX 4060 Ti. Both MSRP are $399, while RTX 4060 Ti, depending in use case, is either worse than 3060 Ti, equal or up to 20% better. That is actually reduction in price to performance, or the very best, same performance as generation older GPU.


Let's solve it here and now; PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?


Rather than going with GTX 1660, i suggest that you look towards GTX 1660 Ti instead. Brand new prices are equal between the two, while Ti variant is fastest of the three GTX 1660 cards (GTX 1660, GTX 1660 Super and GTX 1660 Ti). So, 2nd hand market prices are most likely same.

GTX 1660 vs GTX 1660 Ti comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti/4038vs4037
Ti is quite a bit better.

RTX 2060 is about same amount better from GTX 1660 Ti, as GTX 1660 Ti is from GTX 1660.
Comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2060/4037vs4034
But price for RTX 2060 is considerably more, mainly due to it being "capable" of Ray Tracing. Without Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 has far worse value than GTX 1660 Ti. And even with Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 isn't good GPU since Ray Tracing effectively halves any FPS you could get.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-ray-tracing-turing,5960-2.html

GTX 1660 Ti is 120W GPU and your 500W unit should be enough, given that it isn't a doorstop. And with this, we are back to my 1st question about your PSU and what it is.

Sorry. It's a BeQuiet Pure Performance Power 11 500W 80 Plus Gold BN626. It's from 2021, bought new.

 

[takearushfan82]

Well, there have been some improvement, if you compare it overall.
Found this nice chart: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gpu-price-performance

But if you compare previous generation to the next and specific GPU, then it's easy to see how things are going.
E.g RTX 3060 Ti vs RTX 4060 Ti. Both MSRP are $399, while RTX 4060 Ti, depending in use case, is either worse than 3060 Ti, equal or up to 20% better. That is actually reduction in price to performance, or the very best, same performance as generation older GPU.


Let's solve it here and now; PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?


Rather than going with GTX 1660, i suggest that you look towards GTX 1660 Ti instead. Brand new prices are equal between the two, while Ti variant is fastest of the three GTX 1660 cards (GTX 1660, GTX 1660 Super and GTX 1660 Ti). So, 2nd hand market prices are most likely same.

GTX 1660 vs GTX 1660 Ti comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti/4038vs4037
Ti is quite a bit better.

RTX 2060 is about same amount better from GTX 1660 Ti, as GTX 1660 Ti is from GTX 1660.
Comparison: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2060/4037vs4034
But price for RTX 2060 is considerably more, mainly due to it being "capable" of Ray Tracing. Without Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 has far worse value than GTX 1660 Ti. And even with Ray Tracing, RTX 2060 isn't good GPU since Ray Tracing effectively halves any FPS you could get.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-ray-tracing-turing,5960-2.html

GTX 1660 Ti is 120W GPU and your 500W unit should be enough, given that it isn't a doorstop. And with this, we are back to my 1st question about your PSU and what it is.

I'll seek out a 1660 Ti then, assuming the 500W is okay.

 

[thestryker]

Most of the Ti models can run their memory at 14 Gbps which makes them better than the Super which has a 5W higher TDP. Both the Ti and Super are roughly in the same category though so I'd say whichever is cheaper.

You really do need to make sure your 500W PSU is decent though as the wattage rating by itself doesn't mean anything.

 

[Aeacus]

It's a BeQuiet Pure Performance Power 11 500W 80 Plus Gold BN626. It's from 2021, bought new.

This is actually decent PSU. Mediocre quality and would do fine with GTX 1660 Ti.

For 2nd opinion about that PSU, look at PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

Pure Power 11 is in Tier B. While Tier A PSU would be better. Still, given that there are FAR worse PSUs out there, Pure Power 11 will do.

Also, GTX 1660 Ti doesn't have high transient power spikes, which would otherwise trip the PSU (that's this specific PSU issue, mostly plagued by higher capacity units, when using beefier GPUs, especially RTX 30-series).

I'll seek out a 1660 Ti then, assuming the 500W is okay.

GTX 1660 Ti is 120W GPU, add the rest of the system to it at ~200W and on max load, PC consumes ~320W, making 500W PSU enough (even have some CPU/GPU OC headroom).

 

[takearushfan82]

This is actually decent PSU. Mediocre quality and would do fine with GTX 1660 Ti.

For 2nd opinion about that PSU, look at PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

Pure Power 11 is in Tier B. While Tier A PSU would be better. Still, given that there are FAR worse PSUs out there, Pure Power 11 will do.

Also, GTX 1660 Ti doesn't have high transient power spikes, which would otherwise trip the PSU (that's this specific PSU issue, mostly plagued by higher capacity units, when using beefier GPUs, especially RTX 30-series).


GTX 1660 Ti is 120W GPU, add the rest of the system to it at ~200W and on max load, PC consumes ~320W, making 500W PSU enough (even have some CPU/GPU OC headroom).

I'm always floored at how much there is to learn about different hardware configuration and specs. I appreciate your patience.