Question Guide to networking with "home" Windows OS?

[Squids4daddy]

I have a hodgepodge of Win 7, Win 10, Win 11 machines around the house. The wife and kids want me to set up networking. I do the obvious things the internet says....it no work. I take all the troubleshooting steps Google recommends. No love.

can you recommend a "first principles" resource that I can use to teach myself networking for Windows? One that covers all the weird and wonderful ways it can go wrong so I can figure this out?

 

[USAFRet]

First off, what do you mean by "networking"?

 

[lantis3]

Probably photo sharing? Just use Google drive but it's limit to 15GB

Regarding Windows network sharing without using internet, there are tons of tutorials on youtube.

Of course the one PC that's sharing files must be on.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=basic+windows+network+sharing

If you have a lot of photos/videos/files to share then you should consider a NAS, diy or not, that runs 24/7. NAS in my opinion probably overkill for a lot of people however.

You can also buy a Windows mini PC and just use Windows networking to share files. Mini PC are extremely cheap now and use very little electricity.

 

[Squids4daddy]

Probably photo sharing? Just use Google drive but it's limit to 15GB

Regarding Windows network sharing without using internet, there are tons of tutorials on youtube.

Of course the one PC that's sharing files must be on.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=basic+windows+network+sharing

If you have a lot of photos/videos/files to share then you should consider a NAS, diy or not, that runs 24/7. NAS in my opinion probably overkill for a lot of people however.

You can also buy a Windows mini PC and just use Windows networking to share files. Mini PC are extremely cheap now and use very little electricity.

Photo and documents....but what does a windows mini-pc do that regular windows pc cannot? Let me give you an example. Say I'm doing cad work on computer 1. Then my daughter starts doing homework on computer 1. Later I want to 3D print something, and my 3D printer is hooked up to computer 3. Well...I don't want to have to schlep downstairs and bother my daughter to go get that file that is on computer 1.

Youtube: a greed, a lot of stuff on there. But youtube is terrible if you want to go back, look somethign back up, how did he do that? I want some thing text/picture based I can bring up in a window while I work. You tube videos are a terrible way to learn something other than getting a high level overview or for something like blacksmithing where there is stuff you just need to see done.

 

[Squids4daddy]

First off, what do you mean by "networking"?

I want any PC in the house to be able to grab any file off of any other PC in the house. The PC's are all connected via either hardline or wifi to a netgear router.

 

[USAFRet]

Photo and documents....but what does a windows mini-pc do that regular windows pc cannot? Let me give you an example. Say I'm doing cad work on computer 1. Then my daughter starts doing homework on computer 1. Later I want to 3D print something, and my 3D printer is hooked up to computer 3. Well...I don't want to have to schlep downstairs and bother my daughter to go get that file that is on computer 1.

Basically, you need one central device to store shared files.
Something that does not depend on a particular user PC being on.

I have a NAS for this.
Files that need to be are accessible from any system in the house.

 

[lantis3]

If you own usb based 3d printer and want to share then

1. you need a printer server (usually an adapter with a usb & network port) attached to the printer
2. a router with usb printer support

Whether it works only when you test it. So make sure you can return the product easily.

mini pc no different from regular desktop pc except it uses very little electricity so you can run 24/7 and don't have to worry the electricity bill.

If you don't want to buy print server, you can also attach the 3d printer to the mini pc and share the printer with Windows networking.

 

[USAFRet]

If you own usb based 3d printer and want to share then

1. you need a printer server (usually an adapter with a usb & network port)
2. a router with usb printer support

Whether it works only when you test it. So make sure you can return the product easily.

mini pc no different from regular desktop pc except it uses very little electricity so you can run 24/7 and don't have to worry the electricity bill.

If you don't want to buy print server, you can also attach the 3d printer to the mini pc and share the printer.

Printing with a 3D printer is NOT the same as a print server for inkjet/laser printers.
Not even close.

 

[lantis3]

Printing with a 3D printer is NOT the same as a print server for inkjet/laser printers.
Not even close.

So what's the difference? I don't have experience. Can you give a brand / model and I probably can do some research.

 

[USAFRet]

So what's the difference? I don't have experience. What's your brand / model and I probably can do some research.

I have a couple of 3D printers.
Bambu, 2 different Enders.

Generally, a multi step process.
CAD, slicer, which then produces a .gcode file.
That gcode is what the printer uses.

That file just needs to be in a place accessible to the printer. With my Enders, I do all the prelim work on my PC, save the resultant gcode to a place on the NAS.
The printer looks at that space and does what is needed.

NOT a traditional 'print server' like you use with an inkjet.


And printing with the Bambu Carbon is different than the Enders.

 

[lantis3]

@USAFRet I mean how do you connect to the PC? If it's not USB, then how?

At least this Ender is using USB

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVmvKfBkrto

 

[USAFRet]

@USAFRet I mean how do you connect to the PC? If it's not USB, then how?

At least this Ender is using USB

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVmvKfBkrto

The Bambu is WiFi.
One of the Enders is ethernet (could be USB if I wanted), the other is ethernet and WiFi.

Again, 3D printer connectivity is NOT the same as inkjet/laser.

 

[lantis3]

The Bambu is WiFi.
One of the Enders is ethernet (could be USB if I wanted), the other is ethernet and WiFi.

Again, 3D printer connectivity is NOT the same as inkjet/laser.

So they are networked already. OP's 3D printer is not.
So what's the argument here? OP should just reveal what he has.

And of course 3D printer is not inkjet/laser. But what all printers do is accept commands or scripts from PC and do the printing.


old matrix: Epson ESC command
HP laser: PCL
Adobe postscript based printer: Postscript
Most vendors have both PCL/postscript licensed
3D printer: gcode

All of above are text based (ascii code or binary code if there are graphics). transmitted via oldest parallel interface to serial to usb then to network (wired or wifi) , there are no difference in principle.

All printers just accept the commands and do the printing, 2D or 3D. gcode will move the printing head, no difference from plotter to me, at least for the moment.

I happened to write some programs to talk directly to printers in the past.

---

So it's different. OP probably need a Raspberry Pi OctoPrint kit solution for network printing .

 

[USAFRet]

So they are networked already. OP's 3D printer is not.
So what's the argument here? OP should just reveal what he has.

As said, a central device, to hold whatever shared files. Word docs, gcode, whatever.
A NAS is ideal.

The cheap but very messy way is shared folders on each system. This, of course, relies on that system being ON when you need it.

 

[USAFRet]

If the 3D printer in question relies on only USB, and we do not know, then some remote connection is needed. TeamViewer, TinyVNC, RDC in windows...something like that.

 

[lantis3]

As said, a central device, to hold whatever shared files. Word docs, gcode, whatever.
A NAS is ideal.

The cheap but very messy way is shared folders on each system. This, of course, relies on that system being ON when you need it.

I suggested the same, didn't I? OP has a choice. mini pc or NAS.

 

[USAFRet]

I suggested the same, didn't I?

And so did I.

I want any PC in the house to be able to grab any file off of any other PC in the house. The PC's are all connected via either hardline or wifi to a netgear router.

This requirement basically speaks to needing a NAS. Network Attached Storage.
(and not any file, just the shared ones).

 

[USAFRet]

I suggested the same, didn't I? OP has a choice. mini pc or NAS.

We got off on this tangent with the difference between a traditional "print server", and a 3D printers needs.

 

[lantis3]

I'll stop and you take over.

 

[USAFRet]

So @Squids4daddy - Now that you might be completely lost...questions?

 

[Squids4daddy]

So they are networked already. OP's 3D printer is not.
So what's the argument here? OP should just reveal what he has.

And of course 3D printer is not inkjet/laser. But what all printers do is accept commands or scripts from PC and do the printing.


old matrix: Epson ESC command
HP laser: PCL
Adobe postscript based printer: Postscript
Most vendors have both PCL/postscript licensed
3D printer: gcode

All of above are text based (ascii code or binary code if there are graphics). transmitted via oldest parallel interface to serial to usb then to network (wired or wifi) , there are no difference in principle.

All printers just accept the commands and do the printing, 2D or 3D. gcode will move the printing head, no difference from plotter to me, at least for the moment.

I happened to write some programs to talk directly to printers in the past.

My 3D printer can work on wifi. The problem is that none of the PC's that are also wifi/hardline can see each other. For example, I can see on my netgear app that two PC's are on the router. I follow all the steps found just by googling. Computer 1 can maybe see computer 2, but 2 can't see one. Tomorrow neither will see each other. Both have all drives shared...but although 1 can "see" 2, it can't access files.

It just a random pile of wtf that I need to work through, and the various 'do this do that' guides are not helping. I need something more in depth, more understanding versus simple instruction based. For example, most websites recommend going to "Windows Network and Internet Troubleshoot". That tools is fekking useless.

I know people are getting focused on "use a NAS" or whatever, but I want to return to the original concern: I want every machine on my router to be able to pull any file off of any other "on" machine at any time. Direct peer to peer is what I'm after.

 

[USAFRet]

I know people are getting focused on "use a NAS" or whatever, but I want to return to the original concern: I want every machine on my router to be able to pull any file off of any other "on" machine at any time. Direct peer to peer is what I'm after.

"Any file" is problematic.

Access to certain shared folders, no problem (mostly).
All files in the whole PC? Problem.

You do not want the entirety of your C drive (all of the Windows files) to be accessible.

You can set up shared folders, with whatever files you want in them.
That is the free, but messy solution.

The easy but secure solution is maybe a 2 bay NAS box.
Shared space among ALL systems in the house.
This space is also good for holding your routine full drive backups, etc.

 

[NedSmelly]

It just a random pile of wtf that I need to work through, and the various 'do this do that' guides are not helping. I need something more in depth, more understanding versus simple instruction based. For example, most websites recommend going to "Windows Network and Internet Troubleshoot". That tools is fekking useless.

I'm not an expert in this, but I'm aware of subtle differences in Windows Networking between Win7 and Win10/11. I recall Win7 needs a specified Workgroup name for the computers to see each other. Happy to stand corrected though. More on workgroups: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/change-workgroup-in-windows-11.11747/

The other thing is that if there's wifi networking then the PCs need to see the connection as 'private' and not 'public' - otherwise the resource shares aren't visible.

Then you need to turn on file and printer sharing, which is a little different between Windows versions. And then you need to set up individual folder/drive shares and permissions.

So it's probably a collection of little issues, rather than one big issue.

Network printers should be OS agnostic. We have a Canon printer connected at work directly to the wireless router, and it gets shared by Mac and Windows systems on the network.

Postscript. I agree that NAS seems like the best solution for you. It could be as simple as sticking a USB drive into your router (a lot of them have that capability) if all you need to do is share a couple of files. Or you could apply KISS principle and just email / cloud share the occasional file. You can do peer-to-peer as you stated, but get ready for a lot of sysadmin and account management for managing permissions. For which I suspect you are at the bottom of the learning curve right now. And which you'd likely end up just nominating one specific PC as the share folder... turning it into an ad-hoc NAS.

I want any PC in the house to be able to grab any file off of any other PC in the house

As @USAFRet said, this is bad practice and would indicate unsafe setup. You'll want to allocate a network-accessible folder for each PC, and lock out the rest of it. One way round it is to use Windows Remote Desktop (RDP) and just virtual/RDP into the system with a user account.

 

[lantis3]

I'm back in.

Windows no matter which version has tendency not able to find other Windows machine in the same network, never fixed by MS for over 20 years, because it uses broadcast method that's just not reliable. If you can't see other PC then you have to use ip address in windows explorer address bar instead of computer name if it's not working.

However, most router issue DHCP ip address, so you need a way to give each PC a static or reserved ip

Since Windows can't resolve name to ip reliably, you also need to modify Windows hosts file, located at
C:\Windows\etc\hosts , you will need admin rights to modify the file
MS PowerToys has a hosts file editor
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/hosts-file-editor

Or you need a server on the LAN . NAS act as a server. a 24/7 pc can act as a server. If you can spend time learning, I'll recommend a NAS as well.

As suggested by @USAFRet, share files via individual PC's folder is the worst way to share anything.

Regarding network printing for your 3D printer, you probably have to use OctoPrint .