Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (
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Ray Dillinger a écrit :
> Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
>
>> Ray Dillinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray Dillinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> So it doesn't count because you don't like the users it
>>>>> attracts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never said that. I said that the fact that current users like the
>>>> system is in no way related to the quality of the system, it's because
>>>> those that don't like it aren't users anymore.
>>>
>>>
>>> My point is that it has sufficient quality to attract and hold
>>> a user community; And, as such things go, a very large one.
>>> Sure, if you can attract and hold a bunch of users who don't
>>> like it, the world will be sweeter; in that case I will say
>>> that *both* systems have sufficient quality to attract and hold
>>> a user community.
>>>
>>> But to admit that it can attract and hold a user community,
>>> without a marketing department or vendor lock-in effects is,
>>> IMO, to admit that the system has some quality. Just
>>> because the people aren't your ideal of who you *want* for
>>> a user community doesn't mean the system doesn't have the
>>> quality to attract and keep them on its merits.
>>
>>
>>
>> I never said that. I said that the system would be better and appeal
>> to more
>> people with something sane to fill 95% of the macro system usage. I never
>> said you had to replace the users for that. I never said the current
>> users
>> where bad.
>
>
> You know what? You're right. I was reading things into
> what you said, that weren't actually there. You don't like
> the macro system because it takes too much thinking and
> effort. I like it because it rewards thinking and effort.
>
> Given the fundamental disagreement there, it's unlikely
> that we're going to agree what's a "good" game.
>
> In your proposal to rip out the macro system, I saw an
> insult to and dislike for users who enjoy thinking and
> effort; it wasn't actually there. In your claims that
> angband's user base didn't mean it had any quality, I
> saw a discounting of the users who enjoy macros as being
> somehow "not real" or unable to discern quality, or at
> least not your preferred kind of users. It wasn't there.
> Sorry, I get maybe a bit defensive.
>
> So maybe you can come up with an intermediate ground that
> less-advanced users can enjoy. But advanced users, those
> who actually like thinking and effort, will always prefer
> games with macros (and hopefully a better macrology than
> angband) to games without.
>
> I think there's a cool subgame to be had in the macrology;
> Writing the borg is *really* beating Angband.... but of
> course, the fact that someone can means that angband is
> way too easy.
>
> Bear
>
As a matter of fact, I don't think removing the macro system would be a
good idea because a lot of people like it
Still, I don't see a reason why we couldn't add something else and keep
both systems in place. In fact, it might even be easier to make use of
the macro system to build it. Something like a mix of autoinscribe and
automacro creation.
For example, as a player you want an easy access to that Rod of Trap
detection you just found. The standard way for now is to inscribe it
with @z1 ( replace 1 with the number you use for Detection ) and just do
z1. Or you also create a macro to do z1 for you and you bind it let's
say in key F1. The second system as the advantage that you can also bind
a spell in that same spot in case you have it.
If we have for example a menu like this :
Bind which item ( here we show the complete inventory/equipment list ) :
a) Mage book 1
b) Rod of Trap Detection
You select b
Bind to which key :
a) F1
b) F2
You select a. Now all Rods of Trap Detection will be inscribed with @z1
and the macro to use that is automaticaly set in the F1 key.
If you select a spell book, it'll show you the spells in it first.
If you select an item which needs a direction, it'll ask you it you want
an autotarget marco or not.
If you select a piece of equipment, it'll inscribe only that specific
item. And if it can be activated, it'll ask you if you want to equip or
activate it.
Also, if you bind items with charges, you could show a status bar with
the remaining number of charges in the inventory. And if you bind an
item that recharges you can show it's status there too.
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