HD/PD dead due to power surge

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T

Tim

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Hi,

There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave out.
The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks and the
CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...

All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on the PD
drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual) drive, the
cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be compared to
DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since 1998.

We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
by the BIOS.

I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
same? Are there any other things I can try?

Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
can read it and are still sold?


Thanks a lot for the help!


Cheers,
Tim
 
J

jt

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On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:50:07 GMT, Tim <tim@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave out.
>The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks and the
>CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...
>
>All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on the PD
>drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual) drive, the
>cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be compared to
>DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since 1998.
>
>We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
>from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
>recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
>burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
>by the BIOS.
>
>I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
>have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
>another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
>anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
>same? Are there any other things I can try?
>
>Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
>can read it and are still sold?
>
>
>Thanks a lot for the help!
>
>
>Cheers,
>Tim

Try Ebay and surplus outlets. PD is not being made as far as I know.

JT
 
T

Tim

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Mar 31, 2004
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JT wrote:

> On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:50:07 GMT, Tim <tim@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave out.
>>The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks and the
>>CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...
>>
>>All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on the PD
>>drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual) drive, the
>>cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be compared to
>>DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since 1998.
>>
>>We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
>
>>from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
>
>>recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
>>burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
>>by the BIOS.
>>
>>I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
>>have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
>>another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
>>anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
>>same? Are there any other things I can try?
>>
>>Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
>>can read it and are still sold?
>>
>>
>>Thanks a lot for the help!
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Tim
>
>
> Try Ebay and surplus outlets. PD is not being made as far as I know.
>
> JT

Thanks for the tips. I haven't been able to find one yet. Even lending
one would be great, but few people seem to have heard of such a thing,
let alone have one...

Tim
 
J

jt

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
253
0
18,780
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On Sun, 09 May 2004 21:09:25 +0200, Tim <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>JT wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:50:07 GMT, Tim <tim@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave out.
>>>The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks and the
>>>CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...
>>>
>>>All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on the PD
>>>drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual) drive, the
>>>cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be compared to
>>>DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since 1998.
>>>
>>>We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
>>
>>>from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
>>
>>>recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
>>>burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
>>>by the BIOS.
>>>
>>>I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
>>>have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
>>>another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
>>>anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
>>>same? Are there any other things I can try?
>>>
>>>Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
>>>can read it and are still sold?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks a lot for the help!
>>>
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Tim
>>
>>
>> Try Ebay and surplus outlets. PD is not being made as far as I know.
>>
>> JT
>
>Thanks for the tips. I haven't been able to find one yet. Even lending
>one would be great, but few people seem to have heard of such a thing,
>let alone have one...
>
>Tim

Saw 2 on ebay today. Searched for PD optical and they came up. look quick
before they are gone.

PD was not a popular format, and is probably dying a well deserved death.

JT
 
T

Tim

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
1,833
0
19,780
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JT wrote:

> On Sun, 09 May 2004 21:09:25 +0200, Tim <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>JT wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:50:07 GMT, Tim <tim@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave out.
>>>>The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks and the
>>>>CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...
>>>>
>>>>All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on the PD
>>>>drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual) drive, the
>>>>cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be compared to
>>>>DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since 1998.
>>>>
>>>>We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
>>>
>>>>from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
>>>
>>>
>>>>recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
>>>>burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
>>>>by the BIOS.
>>>>
>>>>I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
>>>>have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
>>>>another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
>>>>anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
>>>>same? Are there any other things I can try?
>>>>
>>>>Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
>>>>can read it and are still sold?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks a lot for the help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>Try Ebay and surplus outlets. PD is not being made as far as I know.
>>>
>>>JT
>>
>>Thanks for the tips. I haven't been able to find one yet. Even lending
>>one would be great, but few people seem to have heard of such a thing,
>>let alone have one...
>>
>>Tim
>
>
> Saw 2 on ebay today. Searched for PD optical and they came up. look quick
> before they are gone.

I'm from Belgium, and couldn't find any on ebay.be (even when searching
worldwide). On ebay.com, som cartridges turned up, but no drive. Did you
use another URL or am I just too late?

> PD was not a popular format, and is probably dying a well deserved death.

It wasn't popular, but the cartridges are far more reliable than
CD-ROM's, in my opinion.
I found a new MO drive (9.1 GB cartridges). I don't know if it's
backward compatible, but at 2300 euro it's not an option.


Thanks,
Tim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

First, you don't describe a failure from a power surge. You
describe a failure classic of a discount power supply that was
missing essential functions. If a power supply was selling
for $40 or less, then this type of failure is too common.

Try to replace the drive electronics board. Exact model
number must be know. There are plenty of disk drive
replacement companies that sell used drives. One used this
company to solve his failure:
www.computertradeexchange.com

These electronic boards are attached to disk often using
torque head bolts. Often using sizes that are less common.
Take the old drive dow to the hardware store to buy a torque
driver for those bolts.

Do not try to write to the rebuilt disk. Only read and copy
data from it. IOW don't even boot from the rebuilt disk.
Just another precaution.

Had power supply contained functions that were even defacto
standard in the 1970s, then the damage as you have described
just would not be possible. Those functions are routinely
forgotten when importing supplies intended only for the
technically naive clone computer assemblers. IOW also get
minimally acceptable power supplies next time. They typically
cost at least $60 retail. How to increase profits AND sell
power supplies at lower cost? Forget to include the long list
of essential functions in a power supply. One such function
would have made your current problem impossible.


Tim wrote:
> There was a power surge and the power supply of the computer gave
> out. The motherboard and CPU are dead, as are the 2 hard disks
> and the CD-ROM/PD drive. I have no idea on the expansion cards...
>
> All data was on those hard disks, with a (fairly old) backup on
> the PD drive. For those that don't know a PD (phase-change dual)
> drive, the cartridges can hold 650 MB and the technology can be
> compared to DVD-RAM. I think I haven't seen those drives since
> 1998.
>
> We lost all our data (especially my sister's thesis work), so apart
> from a lot of broken hardware that I'll have to replace, I'd like to
> recover the data from the HD's and the PD drive. One HD has a chip
> burnt and doesn't spin anymore. The other does, but isn't recognised
> by the BIOS.
>
> I could send the HD to a data recovery lab, but unfortunately I don't
> have that kind of money. I heard about putting the electronics of
> another (similar) HD on the broken HD and copying everything. Has
> anybody ever done this? Succesfully? Does similar HD mean exactly the
> same? Are there any other things I can try?
>
> Does anybody have an idea on the PD cartridge? Are there devices that
> can read it and are still sold?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

terry_b17 wrote:
>
> Tim,
> check out this article at
> http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6255-1053837.html
> regarding the controller swap .

Sorry, but some of the information Techrepublic have presented is not
correct.

It is rare that you will be able to recover a drive simply by replacing
the circuit board with that from a working drive.

This is often due to the fact that the circuitry tends to run right
along to the read/write heads inside the drive itself, so you would have
to replace those as well as the circuit boards. This is a lot more
difficult than it sounds.

TR then writes:

"TheChas also advised Mark on successfully retrieving the data. "To
recover data from a drive with a controller error, you need to find the
exact same model hard drive. Then, you need the aid of an electronics
tech with excellent soldering skills. Swap the electronics between the
working drive and the dead drive."

I have yet to see a "recent" drive where changing the electronics
(assuming the circuit board) requires soldering.


Odie
--

RetroData
Data Recovery Experts
www.retrodata.co.uk
 
T

Tim

Distinguished
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w_tom wrote:

> First, you don't describe a failure from a power surge. You
> describe a failure classic of a discount power supply that was
> missing essential functions. If a power supply was selling
> for $40 or less, then this type of failure is too common.

Why does the power supply fry the internals if there's no power surge on
the input of the supply?

> Try to replace the drive electronics board. Exact model
> number must be know. There are plenty of disk drive
> replacement companies that sell used drives. One used this
> company to solve his failure:
> www.computertradeexchange.com

Thanks, I'll check them out for sure!

> These electronic boards are attached to disk often using
> torque head bolts. Often using sizes that are less common.
> Take the old drive dow to the hardware store to buy a torque
> driver for those bolts.

I should have most, but will check, thanks.

> Do not try to write to the rebuilt disk. Only read and copy
> data from it. IOW don't even boot from the rebuilt disk.
> Just another precaution.

Good idea, I didn't think of that.

> Had power supply contained functions that were even defacto
> standard in the 1970s, then the damage as you have described
> just would not be possible. Those functions are routinely
> forgotten when importing supplies intended only for the
> technically naive clone computer assemblers. IOW also get
> minimally acceptable power supplies next time. They typically
> cost at least $60 retail. How to increase profits AND sell
> power supplies at lower cost? Forget to include the long list
> of essential functions in a power supply. One such function
> would have made your current problem impossible.

I will. How can one check? Price is a nice indication, but with my luck
I would end up being screwed over twice :p


Thanks,
Tim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Power supply circuits on far side of transformer drive
(output) more power through transformer in response to a low
voltage indication. But what happens when the voltage
indicator circuit (on near side of transformer) fails; does
not report full voltage? The driver circuits attempt to
output more power - to up DC output voltage. As the 5 volts
climbs above 7 volts, then digital ICs (such as those on disk
drive) fail. This is only one reason why all minimally
acceptable supplies contain a special and independent circuit
- that shorts out the 5 volts should it exceeds 6.3 volts.
Circuit is called overvoltage protection. Many if not most
clone power supplies forget to include that required circuit.
Then many naive computer assembler assumes it is normal for a
power supply to damage motherboard and disk drive; rather than
first learn basic electrical technology.

Power surge had nothing to do with this failure scenario.
For that matter, read power supply specs. Typically it should
withstand even 2000 volts common mode surge without damage.
Power supplies already contain effective protection.
Protection that can be effective inside or adjacent to the
computer should already be inside the supply.

Tim wrote:
> Why does the power supply fry the internals if there's no power
> surge on the input of the supply?
> ...
 
T

Tim

Distinguished
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Odie Ferrous wrote:

>>Tim,
>>check out this article at
>>http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6255-1053837.html
>>regarding the controller swap .
>
>
> Sorry, but some of the information Techrepublic have presented is not
> correct.
>
> It is rare that you will be able to recover a drive simply by replacing
> the circuit board with that from a working drive.
>
> This is often due to the fact that the circuitry tends to run right
> along to the read/write heads inside the drive itself, so you would have
> to replace those as well as the circuit boards. This is a lot more
> difficult than it sounds.

Couldn't it be that that made it? One of both disks still spins up, the
other doesn't. The important data was of course on the one that doesn't
spin up. It could mean the motor is dead (no joy), but if it's
electronics, I still don't know where that would be (in- or outside).
Any idea?

> TR then writes:
>
> "TheChas also advised Mark on successfully retrieving the data. "To
> recover data from a drive with a controller error, you need to find the
> exact same model hard drive. Then, you need the aid of an electronics
> tech with excellent soldering skills. Swap the electronics between the
> working drive and the dead drive."
>
> I have yet to see a "recent" drive where changing the electronics
> (assuming the circuit board) requires soldering.

Well, I for one hope it doesn't ;-)


Thanks a lot,
Tim
 
T

Tim

Distinguished
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0
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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Could you suggest some texts about the criteria for power supplies and
how to test them?


Thanks,
Tim


w_tom wrote:

> Power supply circuits on far side of transformer drive
> (output) more power through transformer in response to a low
> voltage indication. But what happens when the voltage
> indicator circuit (on near side of transformer) fails; does
> not report full voltage? The driver circuits attempt to
> output more power - to up DC output voltage. As the 5 volts
> climbs above 7 volts, then digital ICs (such as those on disk
> drive) fail. This is only one reason why all minimally
> acceptable supplies contain a special and independent circuit
> - that shorts out the 5 volts should it exceeds 6.3 volts.
> Circuit is called overvoltage protection. Many if not most
> clone power supplies forget to include that required circuit.
> Then many naive computer assembler assumes it is normal for a
> power supply to damage motherboard and disk drive; rather than
> first learn basic electrical technology.
>
> Power surge had nothing to do with this failure scenario.
> For that matter, read power supply specs. Typically it should
> withstand even 2000 volts common mode surge without damage.
> Power supplies already contain effective protection.
> Protection that can be effective inside or adjacent to the
> computer should already be inside the supply.
>
> Tim wrote:
>
>>Why does the power supply fry the internals if there's no power
>>surge on the input of the supply?
>>...
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

What do you want to test for? That it is functional
(Go-Nogo test) or something more comprehensive. Do you want
to test the many functions of that supply? Do you want to
test for reliability? IOW what is the purpose of your
testing? - a question that must be answered before an
appropriate test can be recommended.

Any serious power supply test will require full loads - ie
resistors chained together to make maybe what - 400 watts?
3.5 digit or better multimeters. An oscilloscope. Variac to
run supply under various input voltages. Etc. Are you ready
for all this?

Why does Toyota have legendary quality? They don't test and
don't inspect. This may be a concept not yet understood. But
first we need to understand why you want to test - what is the
objective of that testing?

As for texts on how power supplies work: I once needed
formulae for the design of low pressure inert gas tubes.
Problem is the technology is so old and well proven that books
today no longer teach those basics. Same with power
supplies. Best I can recommend is a college library (that has
electrical and electronic courses) where the library existed
well before 1980. Or learn concepts from data sheets for
power supply controller ICs. Texas Instrument, Linear Tech,
National Semi, and Maxim Semiconductor are but a few
suggestions. Electronic Design, Electronic Products, and EDN
magazine have had articles on power supply basics.

Tim wrote:
> Could you suggest some texts about the criteria for power
> supplies and how to test them?
 
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