HDMI Extender Over IP Wifi?

[mmm923]

Hello, been lurking for a long time and have found great info on other things I've been working on. This one is a bit different.
What I am trying to do is figure out how to get TV out to my garage. Currently I use a SlingBox Solo. Depending on the device I will either connect it via HDMI or Composite to an iPad or iPhone. Sometimes I will go through airplay on apple tv. Both work OK however the older slingbox has limitations on the picture size. The zoom feature on my tv has been getting me by but it degrades the picture. I understand the newer slingbox corrects the picture ratio but also ads advertisements that may or may not interrupt programs I am watching. Also, there is a delay with slingbox. I use verizons app to change channels and it can take anywhere from 10-30 seconds to change a channel. When on my network (changing a channel on normal TV not waiting for the sling) it changes almost immediately.
My goal is to not run a coax or ethernet cable to the garage. I am also trying to avoid buying one of the HDMI wireless products similar to IOGEAR's GW3DHDKIT.
I was hoping to be able to use my current network (VZ Fios 100/100 with quantum router, I also have 2 gigbit switches all in house cabling is Cat6 or better).
There are several relatively inexpensive products that will let me go HDMI over IP but I have found little info on how I could set them up with wifi.
I should also note that I have a powerline network out to the garage now. It is pretty stable but I have never stressed it with more than netflix, slingbox or AppleTV Apps (ie espn, ABC etc).
Hope someone can help or at least pass along some ideas. Would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[mmm923]

oh i should note that I have been looking at products like this - its just one example of the few I am looking at but they are really what have given me a few different ideas http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TR9N4U8/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza
I was hoping I could use some kind of access point connected to a switch or maybe a gaming type adapter to go wifi.
Again any help ideas or insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[ikaz]

Opps sorry I missed the part about you already have powerline adapter at the end of your post before buying anything why do you try to stress it first ?

 

[mmm923]

Opps sorry I missed the part about you already have powerline adapter at the end of your post before buying anything why do you try to stress it first ?

Hi Thanks for the reply.
I believe my powerline can handle it. I think when the microwave is running my speed drops down to 30mbps but its generally close to 100mbps. A few months ago, I purchased a gigbit powerline adapter but have not installed it yet. I just wanna make sure its possible so I was hoping someone here has either made it work or had heard of it working over powerline. I should also mention that my powerline is used for nothing more than getting a wired signal to my garage. No other devices are connected to it (apple tv only).
With respect to the products available, I have asked some of the product manufactures directly, most havent replied - others didnt get me a real answer (almost like they didnt understand me or understand what powerline is). I also asked a few questions on amazon. Most did not get me an answer - well except this product http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OCJ1AZE?ref_=pe_623860_70668520
The only answer received was:
"I don't think so! Come on!"
To which I replied "You dont think so or definitely no? Either way, Thanks for the answer. Powerline has been awesome in my house - was hoping since it was an IP device I could configure it to work over my network.". I have not heard back.
Would it be possible to connect something like that product to a wireless adapter - I could even go point to point on a separate network (I have an extra AC router and a wireless N access point laying around).
Thanks again!

 

[Solandri]

HDMI is uncompressed video - roughly 10 Gbps. There is no way to transmit that over wireless. Every WiFi solution out there first converts it into a compressed video stream, transmits that, then decompresses it back into uncompressed video for display. But you've explicitly stated you don't want a device which does that, meaning what you want to do is impossible.

If you're willing to get a device, try a HDHomeRun. They make a version which takes cablecards, which you can rent from Verizon and should give you all you Verizon channels. That'll convert the video to an mpeg2 stream, which lots of apps know how to decode. An HDHomeRun aware app will also be able to change channels via the HDHomeRun instead of your settop box.

The downside is, 1080p mpeg2 is still a lot of bandwidth. 802.11g can't handle it, 802.11n will occasionally drop out. It should work over 802.11ac if you can get a 15 MB/s connection or faster. Their model which doesn't take cable cards will compress with h.264, which will work over 802.11g (about 1.5 MB/s). They've been planning a model which does h.264 and takes cable cards since 2013, but the fact that it's not out 3 years later suggests they're running into legal problems. Probably Hollywood not wanting you to easily stream your cable TV over a VPN, and cable companies wanting to sell you their own wireless TV devices.

If you're wiling to set up a media server, in theory you can have that transcode the HDHomeRun signal into h.264 before final broadcast to your iPad. Otherwise, something like a slingbox or wireless tv transmitter is your only option.

 

[ikaz]

You may want to look into MoCa connections if your garage has a Coax outlet you maybe to use MoCa network adapter. I also have a problem with Microwave causing problems with my wifi which is why I switched to powerline adapter it worked alot better. Otherwise I would have a dead zone when the microwave was running.

 

[mmm923]

HDMI is uncompressed video - roughly 10 Gbps. There is no way to transmit that over wireless. Every WiFi solution out there first converts it into a compressed video stream, transmits that, then decompresses it back into uncompressed video for display. But you've explicitly stated you don't want a device which does that, meaning what you want to do is impossible.

If you're willing to get a device, try a HDHomeRun. They make a version which takes cablecards, which you can rent from Verizon and should give you all you Verizon channels. That'll convert the video to an mpeg2 stream, which lots of apps know how to decode. An HDHomeRun aware app will also be able to change channels via the HDHomeRun instead of your settop box.

The downside is, 1080p mpeg2 is still a lot of bandwidth. 802.11g can't handle it, 802.11n will occasionally drop out. It should work over 802.11ac if you can get a 15 MB/s connection or faster. Their model which doesn't take cable cards will compress with h.264, which will work over 802.11g (about 1.5 MB/s). They've been planning a model which does h.264 and takes cable cards since 2013, but the fact that it's not out 3 years later suggests they're running into legal problems. Probably Hollywood not wanting you to easily stream your cable TV over a VPN, and cable companies wanting to sell you their own wireless TV devices.

If you're wiling to set up a media server, in theory you can have that transcode the HDHomeRun signal into h.264 before final broadcast to your iPad. Otherwise, something like a slingbox or wireless tv transmitter is your only option.

Thanks Solandri, I was looking into the HDHomeRun. There were a few things that came up that made me pass on it but those issues were not clear. For example - some of the sports channels I watch like NFL RedZone and Fox Sports wouldnt work. Also, about a year ago I went Mac. The newest PC I have doesnt have HDMI. However I do have the HDMI connector for my Mac. Would this be a problem?
Again, it wasnt clear and I havent found anything saying they will work.
I Should also mention I am fully quantum - meaning quantum TV/Media Server STB and Router.
Thanks again!

 

[mmm923]

You may want to look into MoCa connections if your garage has a Coax outlet you maybe to use MoCa network adapter. I also have a problem with Microwave causing problems with my wifi which is why I switched to powerline adapter it worked alot better. Otherwise I would have a dead zone when the microwave was running.

Unfortunately I do not have coax out to the garage. If it I had a clear path to the garage I would run it. My asphalt driveway is too long and wide to go under. I considered doing an overhead wire but found out my town will not allow it.

 

[mmm923]

Oh btw - one thing i should make clear is that I am using the iPad/iPhone to sling/display to a 47" tv. Also this is what I am getting on wifi (5ghz AC band) 2 floors down and about 25' away, plaster walls. The garage is un-insulated and much more line of sight than where I am running this speed test (i am currently in my basement and router is on my second floor other side of the house). http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5295250493 85down 91up

 

[Solandri]

Thanks Solandri, I was looking into the HDHomeRun. There were a few things that came up that made me pass on it but those issues were not clear. For example - some of the sports channels I watch like NFL RedZone and Fox Sports wouldnt work.

The regular HDHomeRun will only work with unencrypted cable channels. It won't work with pay channels or encrypted channels (e.g. Cox encrypts all their channels regardless of whether or not they're premium).

The HDHomeRun Prime takes a cable card. The U.S. government mandated that cable companies provide cable cards in order to break their set top box rental monopoly. You can buy any set top box which takes a cable card, order a cable card from your cable company, and that set top box will be able to tune in to all the channels you're subscribed to. The HDHomeRun Prime looks just like a cable card-enabled set top box to the cable company.

The Cable companies hate this however. They loved charging people $15/mo for a set top box, and hate losing that revenue. So they will drag their feet helping you if you encounter any problems. Just threaten to report them to your local or state regulatory agency, and they'll change their attitude.

The wrinkle in all this however is the TV studios require end-to-end encryption for "protected" content, and only devices or software they approve can be used to transmit/display protected content. The HDHomeRun is approved, but your display device or display software might not be. You'll have to research it on your own. If you try to connect to the HDHomeRun with iPad software which is not approved, you won't get protected content, likely meaning those premium channels you listed.

I got fed up with it all, cut the cord (canceled my cable TV service), and just bought a Roku and mostly watch the free channels. You still have cable TV service however. Those premium channels you subscribe to may also have an equivalent Roku channel which you can view using your cable TV subscription login. Try googling those channels with "roku".

Also, about a year ago I went Mac. The newest PC I have doesnt have HDMI. However I do have the HDMI connector for my Mac. Would this be a problem?

The HDHomeRun takes a coax connector like the one that screws into the back of your cable set top box, and an ethernet connection. It decodes the coax TV signal, encodes it as MPEG2, and transmits it over your network via ethernet.

To view the stream, your device just needs to be able to decode a network MPEG2 stream. Of course tuning in and changing channels via a raw MPEG2 stream is a PITA. So it's tremendously helpful if your viewing devices has an app or program which can make the experience much more enjoyable.

The Roku connects directly to each channel's servers over the Internet and gets the video stream straight from them. It plugs directly into your TV via HDMI.

I Should also mention I am fully quantum - meaning quantum TV/Media Server STB and Router.

https://www.verizon.com/support/residential/tv/fiostv/other+hardware/cablecards/cablecards.htm#

If it cable cards don't work with Quantum, they are breaking Federal law.

The Roku works over the Internet, so bypasses your cable company entirely (aside from Internet access).

Oh btw - one thing i should make clear is that I am using the iPad/iPhone to sling/display to a 47" tv. Also this is what I am getting on wifi (5ghz AC band) 2 floors down and about 25' away, plaster walls. The garage is un-insulated and much more line of sight than where I am running this speed test

Be aware that the "omnidirectional" antennas on most wifi routers are only omnidirectional in the horizontal axis. Their transmit range varies sharply with vertical angle, with the worst signal being directly above and below.

http://www.trevormarshall.com/byte_articles/dipole-az-el.gif

If you find yourself in this hole, you can usually get around the problem by tilting one of the antennas on the router, so that it's "horizontal" plane tilts down to intersect your garage.

 

[mmm923]

Thanks Solandri, I was looking into the HDHomeRun. There were a few things that came up that made me pass on it but those issues were not clear. For example - some of the sports channels I watch like NFL RedZone and Fox Sports wouldnt work.

The regular HDHomeRun will only work with unencrypted cable channels. It won't work with pay channels or encrypted channels (e.g. Cox encrypts all their channels regardless of whether or not they're premium).

The HDHomeRun Prime takes a cable card. The U.S. government mandated that cable companies provide cable cards in order to break their set top box rental monopoly. You can buy any set top box which takes a cable card, order a cable card from your cable company, and that set top box will be able to tune in to all the channels you're subscribed to. The HDHomeRun Prime looks just like a cable card-enabled set top box to the cable company.

The Cable companies hate this however. They loved charging people $15/mo for a set top box, and hate losing that revenue. So they will drag their feet helping you if you encounter any problems. Just threaten to report them to your local or state regulatory agency, and they'll change their attitude.

The wrinkle in all this however is the TV studios require end-to-end encryption for "protected" content, and only devices or software they approve can be used to transmit/display protected content. The HDHomeRun is approved, but your display device or display software might not be. You'll have to research it on your own. If you try to connect to the HDHomeRun with iPad software which is not approved, you won't get protected content, likely meaning those premium channels you listed.

I got fed up with it all, cut the cord (canceled my cable TV service), and just bought a Roku and mostly watch the free channels. You still have cable TV service however. Those premium channels you subscribe to may also have an equivalent Roku channel which you can view using your cable TV subscription login. Try googling those channels with "roku".

Also, about a year ago I went Mac. The newest PC I have doesnt have HDMI. However I do have the HDMI connector for my Mac. Would this be a problem?

The HDHomeRun takes a coax connector like the one that screws into the back of your cable set top box, and an ethernet connection. It decodes the coax TV signal, encodes it as MPEG2, and transmits it over your network via ethernet.

To view the stream, your device just needs to be able to decode a network MPEG2 stream. Of course tuning in and changing channels via a raw MPEG2 stream is a PITA. So it's tremendously helpful if your viewing devices has an app or program which can make the experience much more enjoyable.

The Roku connects directly to each channel's servers over the Internet and gets the video stream straight from them. It plugs directly into your TV via HDMI.

I Should also mention I am fully quantum - meaning quantum TV/Media Server STB and Router.

https://www.verizon.com/support/residential/tv/fiostv/other+hardware/cablecards/cablecards.htm#

If it cable cards don't work with Quantum, they are breaking Federal law.

The Roku works over the Internet, so bypasses your cable company entirely (aside from Internet access).

Oh btw - one thing i should make clear is that I am using the iPad/iPhone to sling/display to a 47" tv. Also this is what I am getting on wifi (5ghz AC band) 2 floors down and about 25' away, plaster walls. The garage is un-insulated and much more line of sight than where I am running this speed test

Be aware that the "omnidirectional" antennas on most wifi routers are only omnidirectional in the horizontal axis. Their transmit range varies sharply with vertical angle, with the worst signal being directly above and below.

http://www.trevormarshall.com/byte_articles/dipole-az-el.gif

If you find yourself in this hole, you can usually get around the problem by tilting one of the antennas on the router, so that it's "horizontal" plane tilts down to intersect your garage.

Ton of help thank you!

I can get a cable card - my friend told me to go to the store for best service. Calling might get me the run-around and online its buried and more hassle than its worth.

If i understand correctly: The HDHomeRun Prime still needs a physical connection via coax. If that is the case I would still have the issue of running a coax out to the garage. 200' of direct bury cable to go what would be 30' if I could run it straight to the garage. ---- unless I could ethernet out of the HDHomeRun over my powerline into my HDTV in the garage.

I have used Roku, Chromecast and I have an Apple TV in the garage and one in my living room. AppleTv works great except now they removed the free music and its only good for mirroring anything but the slingbox, the Channel Apps like ESPN, HBO and the network apps like ABC etc etc. Similar to what you are describing Roku would do (Although I think Roku offers a bit more).

The router I have doesnt have an antenna. Wish I knew that before they sent it. Performance wise its pretty slick, I do not have any reception issues anywhere in my backyard on 2.4 band (100+ ft from the router)however on the 5ghz band I lose full signal around 25ft from the house and have no signal around 30ft.

 

[Solandri]

If i understand correctly: The HDHomeRun Prime still needs a physical connection via coax. If that is the case I would still have the issue of running a coax out to the garage.

The HDHomeRun needs a coax connection, but you don't have to run it out to the garage. You just need to be able to plug it into your network router or a switch, and you're golden.

Be sure to research HDHomeRun viewing apps for the iPad though. In a 5 minutes of searching I did, I wasn't able to find a free one which would let you view protected content.

 

[mmm923]

If i understand correctly: The HDHomeRun Prime still needs a physical connection via coax. If that is the case I would still have the issue of running a coax out to the garage.

The HDHomeRun needs a coax connection, but you don't have to run it out to the garage. You just need to be able to plug it into your network router or a switch, and you're golden.

Be sure to research HDHomeRun viewing apps for the iPad though. In a 5 minutes of searching I did, I wasn't able to find a free one which would let you view protected content.

Do they make any sort of receiver to connect directly to the TV? After your previous post I spent a good amount of time trying to find something that connects to the TV instead of using a PC or handheld.
Thanks again-you have me leaning towards this much more than I considered it before.